Season 4 Finale as it was intended to be...
- Thread starter Praetorian
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If they'd just left it at that you could have imagined Trip and T'Pol ending up any way you wanted. It merely offered hope. But they couldn't leave well enough alone. sigh
If you could supply a cite for this, I'd appreciate it. Because, to my knowledge (from quotes by Manny Coto), it happened just as Praetor remembers it:
Praetor; said:
That was it, especially the way Trip delivered it.
Again, it's subtle. Trip didn't say, "Hey, lady, let's get naked and have a party." What he did say was, "You know, our DNA can combine so ....."
Yes, it's a poorly done tip of the hat to Spock, but ... here's the deal, why in the hell would a guy who just lost his baby say it? Bad. Instead, what might be better is having Phlox say it and with more pity and concern for his friends.
Heck, what might be fun is even Soval saying it after the funeral to like Archer.
You know, if I were a Trip/T'Poler, I think I would want what Dorian did -- just an allusion to the possibility of something and a nice moment (minus the announcement their DNA could be combined again).
So, when people used to call kings "Sire" they meant "Animal Breeder"? I didn't mean any offense by the term siring a child. Sorry if offense was taken.
I wouldn't think so. When Robin Hood says to the Lionheart in The Adventures of Robin Hood, "My sword is yours, sire, now and always," he is using the archaic titular form of the word, as an honorific. A contemporary definition of "sire" is "the parent of an animal."
It's clear that folks have different, and strong, interpretations of Trip's dialogue at the end of "Terra Prime." Perhaps we can agree to disagree?
yeah the extra arc for the solar system story line was lost to the finale and not to the mirror stories.
the mirror stories were already intended to be a two parter.
i cant find the actual interview were manny states it was a three parter but there are some excertps i found else where that talk about including a three part story that would end the season and be the set up for the fifth..
we also know from the reeves stevens that the story in some way would have involved the fundamental declaration of the martian colonies so it may be that manny had to change a lot knowing both he was losing an episode plus wouldnt get his fifth season.
the mirror stories were already intended to be a two parter.
i cant find the actual interview were manny states it was a three parter but there are some excertps i found else where that talk about including a three part story that would end the season and be the set up for the fifth..
we also know from the reeves stevens that the story in some way would have involved the fundamental declaration of the martian colonies so it may be that manny had to change a lot knowing both he was losing an episode plus wouldnt get his fifth season.
Clearly we'll have to.
And just to be clear, you provided a link to the verb I used. The noun and the verb are the first definition in the list. Since it's the first definition, it means it's the most common. (But you already know that.)
Don't live in fear. If you tell a male friend who had a baby, "So, I hear you sired a child," he won't think you mean animal husbandry.
For me the series ending episode TATV was a total waste with the exception of the final speech. Riker playing with the holoeck cheapened the whole show and the side plot with eh Andorians seemed spliced on. Cut the TNG holodeck and the andorian subplot, start wit heh speech and show the results of the speech. a nice scene at the end showing the new shipyards above earth with the NX ships and a Daedalus under construction.
I really liked Enterprise and I wish they had the other three seasons to really show how the Federation cam together, how Earth grew up to leed instead of stumble in the dark, how the Vulcans lost that attitude and became partners instead of obstacles- there was so much they could have done. Most Trek series have an awkward start-up (TNG is painful to watch in the early shows), but ST-E started off like they had been doing it for a while already and had things together. I had really hoped the SciFi channel would pick up the show like Stargate and give a home.
I really liked Enterprise and I wish they had the other three seasons to really show how the Federation cam together, how Earth grew up to leed instead of stumble in the dark, how the Vulcans lost that attitude and became partners instead of obstacles- there was so much they could have done. Most Trek series have an awkward start-up (TNG is painful to watch in the early shows), but ST-E started off like they had been doing it for a while already and had things together. I had really hoped the SciFi channel would pick up the show like Stargate and give a home.
This seems to fit right into this conversation. I found something interesting elsewhere on the internet. Someone claimed to have purchased an earlier version the "Terra Prime" script. The last scene was drastically different than what we got. I have no reason to believe that this false or the person posted it as a hoax. For what ever reason, the writers changed the ending; If it aired like this, we would have had in effect Trip proposing to T'Pol. My guess is that B&B made Coto change it because they wanted to preserve the sanctity of Spock as the first Vulcan / Human hybrid (which is a crock, if you ask me) and they wanted to set up the travesty of TATV.
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If you own the DVDs I suggest you play that scene with the writers commentary on. There is some excellent insight there on their intent of the scene and the emotions of Connor and Jolene during it's filming. I have a feeling it will change most peoples opinions on the ending.
And if they did so, you can bet B&B would have moved down the list to the next available actors and re-tweaked the scenes. IIRC, that's the reason Chekov was in "generations" and not Spock.Actually, I think Bermaga were just trying to recapture their "glory days" at the expense of a show that drew harsh criticism and uneven fan support ...
The irony is that, whatever their intentions, they will be remembered for putting up what is ,IMO, the lamest, worst series/franchise finale in all of sci fi.
Valentine.
IMO, Frakes and Sirtis should have refused to do this episode...
Besides I don't begruge them an oppertunity to play roles they clearly enjoyed. They owe just about all their fame to Trek. Why would they pass it up?
Depending on whom one ask, some people I've met were puzzled as to why either would grieve over a baby neither knew existed until a few days prior.
In any event, I didn't see the line as being offensive. I think it was meant to inspire hope about the couple, and although I didn't love the couple, it worked okay for me. :shrugs:
Exactly as you say it.
Well, I did and now I feel even worse about the way Enterprise ended...
Well making you feel worse wasn't exactly my intention. Hearing the intent of the scene directly from "the horse's mouth" as well as hearing about the actors motivations clears up any doubt that the message they wanted to send was one of long term hope; for both humanity and for Star Trek's favorite couple. Unfortunately, Terra Prime was only one episode before B&B extended a middle finger to all the fans with TATV.
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No, it's good that you mentioned it because I usually don't listen to commentaries, but this one was really sad, the last scene of Star Trek as we know it ever filmed...
It does sound a bit Soap Opera-ish...
Coconuts/F.Y.E has used sets for about that every so often- that is the only way I can afford the DVD season collectios.
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