When in IAMD did the good guys get away?
For that matter, the simple fact that no one from the proper universe is in the story makes it vastly different, narratively speaking.
Season 4 Finale as it was intended to be...
- Thread starter Praetorian
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When in IAMD did the good guys get away?
For that matter, the simple fact that no one from the proper universe is in the story makes it vastly different, narratively speaking.
It was what?
What?TOS only had one two-parter in its entire run, namely "The Menagerie" which has nothing to do with the mirror universe. TOS established the mirror universe, of course, in "Mirror, Mirror" (great episode, by the way), so all stories in modern Trek playing in that universe are kind of based on this episode. "In a Mirror, Darkly" is a sort of sequel to the TOS episode "The Tholian Web" because it details what happened to the ship that vanished to another universe in that episode. But it's not a remake of anything.
Actually, I think Bermaga were just trying to recapture their "glory days" at the expense of a show that drew harsh criticism and uneven fan support ...
The irony is that, whatever their intentions, they will be remembered for putting up what is ,IMO, the lamest, worst series/franchise finale in all of sci fi.
Valentine.
IMO, Frakes and Sirtis should have refused to do this episode...
Yeah... I wonder how their arms got twisted?
I believe that's a reference to fans' wish or suspicion that T'Pol's dad was a Romulan.I would have been happy if she just embraced Trip, never mind her emotions!
Can you elaborate?I also think they should have taken the road not taken regarding her father...
Yep.
Eh, I like it. It would explain a lot. Or, even if her father was just a plain ole collaborator.
As much as I like 'IAMD,' I agree. The show deserved focus. If the goal of 'IAMD' (and much of season four) was to solidly connect the series to the other series because they felt it wasn't already, then really they should have been subtly doing that all along.
They're actors, they have to live off it. As a general rule, you can't be choosy as an actor because there are thousands of unemployed actors.
I agree that they overdid it a bit with the connections to TOS and the other Trek shows a bit in Season 4 (the term fanwank comes to mind), but "In A Mirror, Darkly" was a great episode. I'd rather do without space Nazis, the Klingon Arc and especially "Bound".
They had to make up for 3 seasons with barely any connection with TOS!
Why? Why have blatant connections to other Trek series (and there were a number of them before season 4) at all? ENT takes place more than a century before TOS. How much of the 20th century will be in a story that takes place in the 19th?
ENT was supposed to stand on its own and bring in new fans to Trek who wouldn't need any knowledge of prior Trek. It didn't have "Star Trek" in its title for a reason. All those references in the fourth season got out of hand. Often, a lot of enjoyment of the episodes is based on a rather detailed knowledge of Trek and they don't stand on their own. The Klingon arc doesn't make much sense from an overall storytelling point of view. It's not necessary for the Klingons to look any different in the context of ENT alone. So the premise falls kind of flat for someone who isn't knowledgeable in Trek. The biggest WTF-moment in this regard would probably be TATV, though. If I didn't have a clue about the Trekverse, I'd be pretty frustrated during season 4, I guess. Sure, some references are fine but one shouldn't lose new viwers over that. (The new Doctor Who series is a good example of how to do it right. I didn't know a thing about the previous Doctors and the classic series, they get mentioned and referenced often on the new show but I never had a problem following the show and I never felt a particular story didn't exist in its own right.)
I'm probably one of the few people who weren't particularly happy with this direction of season 4.
ENT was supposed to stand on its own and bring in new fans to Trek who wouldn't need any knowledge of prior Trek. It didn't have "Star Trek" in its title for a reason. All those references in the fourth season got out of hand. Often, a lot of enjoyment of the episodes is based on a rather detailed knowledge of Trek and they don't stand on their own. The Klingon arc doesn't make much sense from an overall storytelling point of view. It's not necessary for the Klingons to look any different in the context of ENT alone. So the premise falls kind of flat for someone who isn't knowledgeable in Trek. The biggest WTF-moment in this regard would probably be TATV, though. If I didn't have a clue about the Trekverse, I'd be pretty frustrated during season 4, I guess. Sure, some references are fine but one shouldn't lose new viwers over that. (The new Doctor Who series is a good example of how to do it right. I didn't know a thing about the previous Doctors and the classic series, they get mentioned and referenced often on the new show but I never had a problem following the show and I never felt a particular story didn't exist in its own right.)
I'm probably one of the few people who weren't particularly happy with this direction of season 4.
Overall, the best strategy was to pay homage to the other series subtly all along - which IMO they did a mixed-bag job of doing - rather than saying 'OMG! Tholian! OMG! Mirror universe! OMG! Gorn! OMG! Defiant!' It verged on parody, and ended up making the universe feel small. There were certain people - Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, Orions - that it made sense they would deal with the most. There were others - Klingons 
- that felt a bit annoying.
- that felt a bit annoying.
I guess, the main problem is that ENT generally wasn't written that well, so often it ended up being pretty heavy-handed. And that goes for references to other Trek, too.
I do agree that they went a little overboard! My comment was somewhat satirical!
Frankly I wasn't that concerned with connections to TOS but instead moving on the "Birth of The Federation" and "Romulan War" plots, which should have been the main focus of the series in my oppinion..
And the Vulcan, Babel and Terran Arc certanly focused on this and gave rise to some excelent stories.
However I could have lived without Augments, Organians, Transporter's Inventor, Ridgless Klingons, Mirror Universe and TNG...
Agreed.
NCC 1701. It had been done before in the Orignal Series.
alternate Universe.
Spock wore a Beard and was evil. Kirtk was evil in fact everyone was evil it was the Evil mirror Universe of the Enterprise.
As I said the Cast had a Ball doing it.
In the end the crew was back in their own Universe and good again but it sure was a great episode.
I suppose if you find a Network that broadcasts the Original Series you will see it sometimes as TOS onnly lasterd three seasons.
alternate Universe.
Spock wore a Beard and was evil. Kirtk was evil in fact everyone was evil it was the Evil mirror Universe of the Enterprise.
As I said the Cast had a Ball doing it.
In the end the crew was back in their own Universe and good again but it sure was a great episode.
I suppose if you find a Network that broadcasts the Original Series you will see it sometimes as TOS onnly lasterd three seasons.
Oh, I know and love Mirror, Mirror from TOS. But you're mistaken in that it is a two-parter and that In a Mirror, Darkly is in any way a remake of said episode.
I probably came off rather strongly. Welcome to the forum.
I think your version of what would happen in the Demons/Terra Prime three-parter would be probably worse that what we saw in TATV. To be specific:
* Trip and T'Pol marrying after Trip offered to help her "make another baby" is repulsive. The couple had no appeal to me. I think what would be better is to -- if one must have the couple get together -- have a vague ending where one might suppose they get together without Trip offering to sire another child (which I thought was tacky and screwed with a nice moment)
* Travis and his girlfriend was incredibly boring. To continue that thread makes no sense, especially with no intent on how it would benefit the series. I'd drop it
* Archer making a Federation speech without the connotation of the Federation is odd. Instead, it might be better to be better if the entire arc was about the Federation
TATV was better because it didn't include these elements.
Again, sorry if I came off strongly. It's nice to see new people post and hope "strong" opnions don't dissuade you.
Agreed. I loved TOS, but hated the blatant no-point tie-ins.
Of course, I have no problem with different oppinions! I just wasn't sure to what you were refering!
Having sex with minors is repulsive. Incest is repulsive. Racism is repulsive.
#1. Trip never offered to impregnate T'Pol, he simply stated that Vulcans and Humans aren't incompatible after all (so one day, perhaps, who knows).
#2. T'Pol was clearly into the whole mom role, so even if the guy (whom she 'mated' with) had made such offer, I can't see what would be so damn repulsive. I don't even see it as distasteful.
Playing this scene in my head (as you described it) gave me frakkin' goosebumps!
But I guess coming up with something like that takes creativity, something that the Beebs lacked entirely of late (one of the reasons the brought on Coto, I guess).
Actually, he did, but in a more subtle way.
If my child suddenly died and my husband offered, that day or anytime in the near future, to make another baby, I'd be terribly upset.
That's what's repulsive. If instead they left the idea of possible additional hybrids alone, I think the moment would've been more touching.
The moment between Trip and T'Pol was one of loss, shared loss. By Trip offering to sire another child, he really trampled on a nice moment and a shared understanding of their loss.
The exact quote from "Terra Prime":
Trip: "So if a Vulcan and a human ever decided to have a child, it'd probably be okay. And that's sort of comforting."
commie, your use of the phrase "sire another child" (the word "sire" is often used in association with breeding animals) may be causing a bit of friction here.
Another poster here said a while back that after she had a miscarriage, the hope that she and her husband could have another child was a comfort to her, and one that she grasped at immediately in the aftermath of her loss. So I think different people react differently.
In "Terra Prime," T'Pol reacted to Trip's line by taking his hand. It appears that she took his words as a comfort. That doesn't mean the scene has to work for everybody (few scenes in Enterprise did), but it seems the writers thought the reaction would be true for the characters.
The fact of the matter is that Terra Prime would have served very nicely as a finale right down to Archer's speech. The attack was averted on Starfleet. Trip and T'Pol had a nice ending with a bit of hope in spite of the death of their child. Everything fit.
Then Bermaga ruined it. And that is all.
Then Bermaga ruined it. And that is all.
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