Searching for an ex gay therapist

[USS Triumphant]

I never understood the Kohlinar. It's such BS - denial of truth. I preferred Diane Duane's notion of Vulcan logic as c'thia ("reality truth) and the lesson of Mastery of the Unavoidable: you feel the emotion, accept it, but don't let it deter you from doing what is rational.

That, btw, would be the Vulcan philosophy that got me through some difficult times when I was a teenager. And it continues to be useful, too.

 

[IndyJones]

Gotham, you may not remember me, but I do remember talking to you about this subject in earlier threads.

My heart goes out to you. I don't mean to take anything away from your experiences, but they are not at all representative of what I have seen in this city. And I say that not to contest what you've previously lived through, but rather to provide hope that someday you can find a healthy relationship in the future.

I have many friends of various colors and backgrounds, and though there surely are some racists in Lakeview, these guys have no trouble finding friends and dates both outside of and within their own races. I agree with the others that more counseling is needed, but perhaps instead of looking to decrease desire you can turn that to why you don't feel accepted in areas that provide acceptance to so many others.

I mean, I know that as a white dude life can be easier for me, but I also know so many guys from different backgrounds that have found happiness here that I refuse blame your troubles on solely on appearance and social status.

Regardless, I wish you well. And pray that you don't pursue this destructive path.

 

[Maurice]

"It knows only that it needs, Doctor. But like so many of us, it does not know what."

 

[Trekker4747]

If one has no legs one learns to stop wanting to run. If one has no voice, one learns to stop wanting to sing.

People with disabilities learn to overcome them in great and fantastic ways. There's countless stories out there of amputees not letting their disability confine them to a wheelchair for the rest of their life and instead have taken that disability and turned into something great allowing them to race in marathons and climb Everest. People with no voice may find other great and powerful ways of expressing themselves through instruments.

But neither of those two honest, real, disabilities that do take work and time and training to overcome compares to what it seems you are faced with.

I would not classify what you have is a disability or any kind of disorder. It's just something you're not comfortable with in some fashion or another.

Contact a real medical professional and get real, true, help. That guy who lost his legs still saw a doctor, surgeons and physical therapists in order to regain some level of mobility or a means to work within his limitations. The mute saw specialists as well to learn how to communicate and deal with their condition.

If your "condition" is really something that troubles you see a real, honest, doctor. There's lots of operations out there that will take your money and try and teach you to suppress part of yourself or give you "snake oil" to make you *feel* as if you've "been cured" or whatever it is you seek. Waste of time and money.

See a professional. That's the only way you're going to find happiness.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Trust me, you don't want that. When I was a kid, dealing with the grief of losing my mother and the pain of being bullied, I tried to follow Spock's example and suppress my emotions, but I ended up being more like the Incredible Hulk, since without a healthy release the emotions just built up until they burst out of me in dysfunctional ways. I came to accept, around the same time Spock did in ST:TMP (and maybe in part because of that), that emotion is natural and needs to be accepted, that fighting it just does more harm.

Emotion cannot be eliminated. Without emotion, there is no motive to make any decision or undertake any action. Neurological studies have shown that even the most detached intellectual tasks, like solving math and logic problems, engage the emotional centers of the brain, because we feel a need to find a solution or an affinity for a correct answer. Feeling is an inseparable part of thinking. Even the attempt to deny or avoid feeling is motivated by an emotion, the desire to avoid pain.

But emotion can be managed and directed. Once you accept it as part of yourself, that gives you the ability to take control of it -- or simply to acknowledge it and move beyond it, rather than letting it oppress you. Think in terms of martial arts -- it's about letting the energy flow through you and redirecting it smoothly in the direction you want, rather than trying to struggle against it and hurting yourself in the process. Indeed, martial arts or yoga can be excellent for calming the mind and learning emotional discipline.

Brilliantly stated. I couldn't have said it better. I don't pretend to presume to know what your situation is like, Gotham Central, but whatever you end up doing, please do take Christopher's words as sage advice. Emotions will always find a way to be expressed. The key is finding the most constructive expression. That doesn't mean acting on the specific emotions, but finding ways to channel them into actions that are as constructive and appropriate for whatever situation you find yourself in.

It's not an easy journey to find the best expression for emotions you might be uncomfortable with, but I'd say, from experience, the best means to finding help is through licensed professionals. They have the experience, training, and tools to help you find a way forward that works for you. They are open to many possibilities, including ones you might not have considered, or may have dismissed and I would caution against a course that has only one or two possible outcomes.

Either way, like every one else, I wish you all the best...

 

[Amaris]

I never understood the Kohlinar. It's such BS - denial of truth. I preferred Diane Duane's notion of Vulcan logic as c'thia ("reality truth) and the lesson of Mastery of the Unavoidable: you feel the emotion, accept it, but don't let it deter you from doing what is rational.

That, btw, would be the Vulcan philosophy that got me through some difficult times when I was a teenager. And it continues to be useful, too.

Agreed. I far prefer Diane Duane's interpretation of Vulcan practices as well. To me, proper management is far better than suppression. Wishing something away will not make it so. It is far better to accept, cope, and move forward, embracing the differences as a stronger part of the whole. It's a good lesson.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Years ago I probably would have opposed such therapy because I opposed the political motives behind those that develop such programs and promote them. Now I recognize that they may have something of value to offer.

Can you possibly explain what has lead you to this conclusion? I would think that most people would agree that it has never been more apparent that these therapies don't work.

If you are expecting to not be gay at the end of the experience, then that is not a realistic outcome, which leads me to assume that is not the outcome you are aiming for?

You are quite correct. I don't pretend to believe that said therapy can actually make one really straight. However, what I do believe is that such therapy can do is teach me how to properly live without and and not desire to have certain things in my life.

If one has no legs one learns to stop wanting to run. If one has no voice, one learns to stop wanting to sing. This is what I've got to learn to live without.

Again, I could try to explain but few would understand it, and quite frankly I've tired of being made to feel like even more of a freak by those that have no Idea what I go through…especially those for who such things come so easily.

Choosing to get involved in a program that has been proven to be harmful sounds exactly like self-mutilation to me.

If we are to follow your analogy (underlined), then legs and voices are normal things to have, and seeking to irreversibly amputate normal parts of your body, if that's by analogy what you're saying, then again that sounds exactly like self-mutilation.

You have people here offering you support, and before you try something that is likely to harm yourself, I'd simply suggest that you make use of all the resources that you're being offered here.

No one else here can live your life, but the fact that people are basing their involvement in this thread on the issues you describe, and they're still reaching out to you, that seems like an opportunity, at least.

I don't believe that the people offering you feedback in this thread want to see you get harmed. I know I don't.

 

[thumbtack]

There are two common scenarios that lead a man to seek out Kohlinar.

1. There is a frequent yearning or longing in which the object of desire is hopelessly out of reach, often due to unrealistic expectations.

or

2. They are able to form romantic relationships with others, but experience excessive emotional suffering when the often inevitable breakup arrives.


There's a class of antidepressant medications that are known to greatly diminish sexual desire and ability in many who take them. However, it is widely regarded as unethical to prescribe them for that purpose.

Counseling is best.

 

[BigJake]

Choosing to get involved in a program that has been proven to be harmful sounds exactly like self-mutilation to me.

Gotham Central, I'm 100% in agreement on this one and can only echo CorporalCaptain's urging that you try to find a route that's less like self-harm.

And I'm sorry that you had to undergo whatever set of experiences brought you to such a point, and I hope things get better for you.

 

[Gotham Central]

Choosing to get involved in a program that has been proven to be harmful sounds exactly like self-mutilation to me.

Gotham Central, I'm 100% in agreement on this one and can only echo CorporalCaptain's urging that you try to find a route that's less like self-harm.

And I'm sorry that you had to undergo whatever set of experiences brought you to such a point, and I hope things get better for you.

I really don't understand the comparison to self harm/mutilation. I'm seeking out a process that brings relief, comfort, understanding, and solutions. How exactly is that self harm…especially considering that Id be going into it with fairly modest expectations?

 

[BigJake]

I really don't understand the comparison to self harm/mutilation. I'm seeking out a process that brings relief, comfort, understanding, and solutions.

I don't think I can add much more to what's already been said except to recommend that you consult the actual long-term experiences of conversion therapy survivors if you genuinely believe the schtick about its bringing relief, comfort, understanding or solutions. Exodus Ministries closed shop and abandoned the practice because it demonstrably brings none of those things, a factor that I find it hard to believe you're unaware of. You can either accept the facts or not. Best of luck.

 

[Trekker4747]

I really don't understand the comparison to self harm/mutilation. I'm seeking out a process that brings relief, comfort, understanding, and solutions. How exactly is that self harm…especially considering that Id be going into it with fairly modest expectations?

Because it's been shown these services and processes do not work and do more harm than good. If you want something that works see an actual mental health professional.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Choosing to get involved in a program that has been proven to be harmful sounds exactly like self-mutilation to me.

Gotham Central, I'm 100% in agreement on this one and can only echo CorporalCaptain's urging that you try to find a route that's less like self-harm.

And I'm sorry that you had to undergo whatever set of experiences brought you to such a point, and I hope things get better for you.

I really don't understand the comparison to self harm/mutilation. I'm seeking out a process that brings relief, comfort, understanding, and solutions. How exactly is that self harm…especially considering that Id be going into it with fairly modest expectations?

It's been proven harmful. That's the overwhelming consensus both inside and outside this thread. Yet you want to go ahead with it anyway. It's pretty self-explanatory.

Maybe you could comment on the second paragraph I wrote:

If we are to follow your analogy (underlined), then legs and voices are normal things to have, and seeking to irreversibly amputate normal parts of your body, if that's by analogy what you're saying, then again that sounds exactly like self-mutilation.

Remember, this was based on your own analogy, which I had underlined:

If one has no legs one learns to stop wanting to run. If one has no voice, one learns to stop wanting to sing. This is what I've got to learn to live without.

It sounds like you're saying you want to cut your own legs off or cut your own vocal cords? What the fuck? That's self mutilation.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Again, I could try to explain but few would understand it, and quite frankly I've tired of being made to feel like even more of a freak by those that have no Idea what I go through…especially those for who such things come so easily.

As for "few would understand," I've seen several people talking here about sexuality that is a bit out of the mainstream. I suspect you'd find more support than you expect.

Yes. And with the things I've seen and done I suspect that I, for one, get stranger things than you as prizes in my breakfast cereal. As long as you aren't hurting children or animals or doing sexual things to people against their will, you'd be pretty hard-pressed to shock me. (Hell, even those wouldn't shock me, per se, but they'd probably piss me off.)

If you really don't want to, that's fine, but why not use the relative anonymity of the board and give us a bit more info to see if we can thinktank a better strategy for tackling your problem than something harmful that has been proven not to work? There's some pretty bright folks here, and some very openminded ones, too.

 

[Amaris]

When I accepted myself for who I was, when I came to terms with the knowledge that my sexuality was a part of me, that I was definitely different, and that I was still me in the end, then I realized that there was nothing wrong with me. No one needed to 'fix' or 'cure' me, because my thoughts and ideas were my own, and had value and merit of their own. I am pansexual, and there's nothing wrong with being pansexual, just as there's nothing wrong with being heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or asexual.

 

[BillJ]

I really don't understand the comparison to self harm/mutilation. I'm seeking out a process that brings relief, comfort, understanding, and solutions. How exactly is that self harm…especially considering that Id be going into it with fairly modest expectations?

You're trying to cut off part of yourself that you don't like/want. It is no different than self harm/mutilation.

 

[Spot's Meow]

When I accepted myself for who I was, when I came to terms with the knowledge that my sexuality was a part of me, that I was definitely different, and that I was still me in the end, then I realized that there was nothing wrong with me. No one needed to 'fix' or 'cure' me, because my thoughts and ideas were my own, and had value and merit of their own. I am pansexual, and there's nothing wrong with being pansexual, just as there's nothing wrong with being heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or asexual.

Well said. And hey, another pansexual! More proof that we really aren't as alone here as we may think we are.

 

[Amaris]

When I accepted myself for who I was, when I came to terms with the knowledge that my sexuality was a part of me, that I was definitely different, and that I was still me in the end, then I realized that there was nothing wrong with me. No one needed to 'fix' or 'cure' me, because my thoughts and ideas were my own, and had value and merit of their own. I am pansexual, and there's nothing wrong with being pansexual, just as there's nothing wrong with being heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or asexual.

Well said. And hey, another pansexual! More proof that we really aren't as alone here as we may think we are.

Yay!

 

[Maurice]

I obviously can't and won't speak for Gotham Central, especially since he seems disinclined to share details (and I'm not saying he should). However, I've known my share of people who've had difficulties with their feelings about their sexuality, for a variety of reasons. For instance, one gay man who as a teen was sexually molested by an adult man, and this caused him years of difficulty coming to terms with his own sexuality, and in some ways he's still dealing with it decades later. Likewise, I know someone who was gay bashed as a kid and this likewise caused him a lot of problems and he pushed that side of himself down because of that experience. Some people are really afraid of of what being gay will mean for their families. Some people are just so programmed by the culture that being homosexual is bad that even though they can intellectually accept it they suffer severe emotional issues related to it. Some are concerned about disease. etc. etc.

In the end, the best advice is to seek out the RIGHT kind of help, which is why upthread I mentioned seeking help from someone with a lot of experience that relates to whatever the specific things which concern our friend here. That person may have solutions or suggestions he hadn't considered before. I've had good Dr.s and bad Dr.s, and I've learned to try several because oftentimes the first or second just really aren't right or have the right experience.

 

[Gotham Central]

I'm usually very good at finding things on the internet, but this has proven illusive.

I've been trying to find an ex-gay (gay reparative) therapist or group for more than a year now with no success. They seem to be quite prolific in the South but in the Chicago metro area where I live, these groups seem to have either vanished or been driven so far underground as to be next to impossible to find. It seems odd to have this much difficulty to find a service when you need it, but this has proven quite challenging.

Thus I'm looking for suggestions of places where one could look for information.

For reference I snapped up the Exodus app (before it was removed from iTunes, and checked their website. Been to PFOX and People can change, but their resources seem virtually nonexistent in this area.

Am I missing something?

It has been outlawed in some states and is in the process of being outlawed in others.

If you are insistent on finding such a resource, here you go.

If you are struggling with your own sexuality and looking for a "cure," however, there is no evidence that conversion therapy works, and in fact plenty of evidence to the contrary. Even attempting it psychologically damaging. Making peace with yourself and who you are is the only real "cure."

Thanks again for the information on the group.

I checked with them and unfortunately I have to wait at least 15 weeks for the current group to run its course. Even then there is no guarantee that I will be able to get in (as I said they rejected me before and the men's group always has high demand ). Sigh...we'll see what happens and I'll keep checking to see if anything else is available locally.