Searching for an ex gay therapist

[Gotham Central]

Again, I could try to explain but few would understand it, and quite frankly I've tired of being made to feel like even more of a freak by those that have no Idea what I go through…especially those for who such things come so easily.

As for "few would understand," I've seen several people talking here about sexuality that is a bit out of the mainstream. I suspect you'd find more support than you expect.

Yes. And with the things I've seen and done I suspect that I, for one, get stranger things than you as prizes in my breakfast cereal. As long as you aren't hurting children or animals or doing sexual things to people against their will, you'd be pretty hard-pressed to shock me. (Hell, even those wouldn't shock me, per se, but they'd probably piss me off.)

If you really don't want to, that's fine, but why not use the relative anonymity of the board and give us a bit more info to see if we can thinktank a better strategy for tackling your problem than something harmful that has been proven not to work? There's some pretty bright folks here, and some very openminded ones, too.

Trust me, I'm not into anything freaky or out of the "ordinary." If that were the case, at least the isolation would be logical and make some kind of sense.

 

[Gotham Central]

I really don't understand the comparison to self harm/mutilation. I'm seeking out a process that brings relief, comfort, understanding, and solutions. How exactly is that self harm…especially considering that Id be going into it with fairly modest expectations?

Because it's been shown these services and processes do not work and do more harm than good. If you want something that works see an actual mental health professional.

Been there done that. That's why I'm looking to try something else. Trust me, one does not reach this conclusion in a vaccum.

 

[Gotham Central]

I don't believe that the people offering you feedback in this thread want to see you get harmed. I know I don't.

Trust me I totally understand that. I guess most folks can't comprehend that the status quo is much worse than any perceived "harm" that such a group could provide.

 

[DonIago]

Given that you seem intent on pursuing this, I'll just say I hope for your sake that you're right about that.

I can't really offer any advice above or beyond what everyone else has already said.

 

[Gotham Central]

I've been trying to find an ex-gay (gay reparative) therapist or group for more than a year now with no success.

You may first wish to seek out a licensed mental health counselor who specializes in sexual issues and therapy (google is your friend).

They might be able to determine what you want your personal end result to be. A good friend of mine (not gay) was profoundly uncomfortable with his heterosexuality, not so much the act, but that being his natural sexually orientation.

I'm not suggesting that this would be your goal, but my friend eventually determined after therapy that his best life style was to be celebate, an option which he hadn't considered. Hard as it might be to believe, today he is very happy and "well adjusted," happy in his own skin.

Only you can decide who and what you are.

Gay de-programming receives a lot of bad press, and for good resaon. If you are actually gay, this is something that was determined in your third week of life while still in the womb. Nothing can change that. But what you do with your sexuality is something you can exercise a certain degree of control over.

Don't let me or anyone here tell you what you can do.

The nice thing about advise is you don't have to take it.

I'm gay and transgende and have been in therapy before, if you want to talk more about what you perceive as a problem please fell free to PM me here.

Good luck.

I am curious if there are any groups/programs that help to teach the "virtues" (probably not the right word for what I'm thinking) or the tools for accepting the celibate/isolated life? I think that that it one of the tools that the exgay therapy provides...coming to terms with being seperate or apart from others. Lol, I'd probably make a decent priest or monk except for the fact that I'm not in anyway shape or form religious (vague spirituality/ordered universe at most)

 

[Kemaiku]

It is not "percieved" harm. It is actual, deep and lasting pyschological harm, something even many of the people running these operations have come to terms with and disbanded the practise because of.

You will not be any better off for pursuing this, we can guarantee you that.

I feel so very sorry that you cannot see that and intend to go ahead with it.

 

[Gotham Central]

It is not "percieved" harm. It is actual, deep and lasting pyschological harm, something even many of the people running these operations have come to terms with and disbanded the practise because of.

You will not be any better off for pursuing this, we can guarantee you that.

I feel so very sorry that you cannot see that and intend to go ahead with it.

I guess I disagree primarily because i'd be going into it with an understanding of its potential but also its limitations. After all, I don't go into this thinking that being gay is bad or evil and certaily not "sinful." For those folks with the ability to fit in and be welcomed into that world, life can be as fullfilling as it is for anyone else.

What I do know is that its been pretty disastrous for ME and such therapy and mental realignment/conditioning can have a positive influence on my life.

 

[Scout101]

How about going at this a different way? WHY are you trying to find this service? What's wrong with the status quo? I.E. what's the damage in finding a therapist that helps you be ok with who you are (presumably gay/gay urges) vice one that tries to 'fix' you into not being gay anymore?

I think that's the disconnect here. You're arguing about whether these groups can fix you or not, morality of that, but is there really something that's bad coming out of just BEING gay instead?

To go with the self-mutilation analogy, instead of learning about ways to not think about cutting yourself, and how to hide knives, isn't it better to try and be ok with yourself and not want to cut yourself in the first place? Seems like you're trying to find better ways to surpress the self-hate when the answer ought to be to try to find a way to not hate yourself in the first place...

At the end of the day, it's back to argument about whether being gay is a choice or not.

If so, well, stop being gay.
If not, find a way to be ok with it.

Just burying it as deep down as possible and pretending everything's great is a pretty poor and self-destructive option C, which is what people are telling you, and what EVERYTHING has proven about those programs.

 

[DonIago]

The fact that you're maintaining this can have a positive impact on you despite an almost unanimous opinion (supported by research) here that this kind of treatment is far more prone to having a negative impact suggests to me that you may not have a full understanding of its potential or limitations.

I'm tempted to note that, of all people, these are TrekBBS fans expressing a nearly-unanimous opinion, but given the gravity of your situation any levity strikes me as inappropriate.

That said, since you've been rather vague about what you're actually hoping to accomplish in the first place, I suppose we're not ultimately in any position to weigh in on whether you're likely to succeed or fail.

I can't imagine how any life experiences could be so traumatic that seeking therapy -known to cause harm while not being known to have positive effects- would become a desirable course of action.

If it's just being celibate that you're worried about, I'd recommend finding a compatible spiritual order.

 

[Christopher]

It is not "percieved" harm. It is actual, deep and lasting pyschological harm, something even many of the people running these operations have come to terms with and disbanded the practise because of.

Yes.

A long time ago, society believed that left-handedness was unnatural and perverted, for no other reason than that it was uncommon. (It's no coincidence that "sinister" is the Latin word for "left.") Thus, there were "therapies" designed to "cure" left-handedness, forcing people to use their right hands or using aversion therapy to punish them for using their left hands. It did superficially make them adopt the use of their right hands, but that was not natural for them, because they were supposed to be left-handed -- it was how they were born, how their brains were wired. And thus forcing their brains to function in a way they weren't designed for was extremely damaging, physically and psychologically. Today we recognize those "therapies" as the hideous torture and abuse they truly were.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I am curious if there are any groups/programs that help to teach the "virtues" (probably not the right word for what I'm thinking) or the tools for accepting the celibate/isolated life?

Maybe http://www.celibrate.org/ ?

I'd probably make a decent priest or monk except for the fact that I'm not in anyway shape or form religious (vague spirituality/ordered universe at most)

Apparently, being religious isn't entirely required: http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/can-you-be-an-atheist-priest/

Why do you feel like you have to be alone? Nevermind. Sorry. You've made it clear you don't want to talk about the details, and that's your call. But it is making me a little crazy (crazier, anyway ), because I HAVE to believe there is something you're missing, that there is help in seeing what that is, right here, but we can't see the shape of the missing piece for you because we aren't being shown the whole puzzle.

 

[USS Triumphant]

A long time ago, society believed that left-handedness was unnatural and perverted, for no other reason than that it was uncommon. (It's no coincidence that "sinister" is the Latin word for "left.")

Not to derail the thread, but this wasn't as long ago as you might think. I was naturally ambidextrous, but my second grade teacher (this was 1982) tied my left arm to the chair so I couldn't use it until I got used to not using it. My mom went along with this, and my dad was not told - he was always putting in overtime on the contract jobs he was on, worked a lot of swing shift and graveyard shift, so I rarely saw him.

I have tremors that I am convinced came from that, and while I can still do some things ambidextrously (bowling, for example), I can't even begin to write with my left hand - tremors are too bad.

 

[Amaris]

It is not "percieved" harm. It is actual, deep and lasting pyschological harm, something even many of the people running these operations have come to terms with and disbanded the practise because of.

Yes.

A long time ago, society believed that left-handedness was unnatural and perverted, for no other reason than that it was uncommon. (It's no coincidence that "sinister" is the Latin word for "left.") Thus, there were "therapies" designed to "cure" left-handedness, forcing people to use their right hands or using aversion therapy to punish them for using their left hands. It did superficially make them adopt the use of their right hands, but that was not natural for them, because they were supposed to be left-handed -- it was how they were born, how their brains were wired. And thus forcing their brains to function in a way they weren't designed for was extremely damaging, physically and psychologically. Today we recognize those "therapies" as the hideous torture and abuse they truly were.

Agreed. I also believe gay "therapy" is abuse. Gotham, when I told you I wanted you to find the peace you desired, I meant it, but I don't think you'll find it in these so-called "therapies." I will bet this: You'll find a "therapist," you'll go, after weeks and weeks of hard work and paid out checks, you'll be in the exact same position you were before. It is my thought that you are so desperate for peace, that you'll do anything.

It's the same mindset that convinces people who are overweight that if they try this one diet pill, or do this one trick, they'll lose that weight. "Yeah," they'll say, "the other gimmicks didn't work, but I'm smarter now, and I know that this time it will be different."

The difference, of course, is that you're trying to change your hard wired biology with a miracle cure that doesn't exist. Please don't listen to the snake oil salesmen who are telling you that they can cure you; they're lying; whether by ignorance, omission, or malicious deception.

You need to make peace with who you are. Denying who you are will never bring peace, at least not for long. Whatever gave you the idea that you are somehow flawed, or wrong, for being what you are, needs to go. It is what keeps you from peace. Don't run away from it, cover it up, or paint it a different color; embrace it. You are who you are, you're your own person, and you need to acknowledge and accept it. Be at peace with it. Until you do, all your running away will do is tire you out, to where you'll be miserable and exhausted, and that is no way to live your life.

 

[Kemaiku]

"Sinistra" and yes, my mother knew people who were subjected to that 'corrective' behaviour when she was at school, not so very long ago really.

Luckily it wasn't so vicious or enforced as others and they reverted to their left handedness shortly after before any lasting harm was done.

But it and this ex-gay group are negative re-enforcement "therapy", "don't be that way or we'll hurt you until you aren't" is as simple as it gets. The methods are cruel, the whole practise unnecessary, grinding someone down until they're too scared to act as they should, dangerously surpressing aspects of themselves.

Repression is an awful thing.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Alan Turing

Just seems worth mentioning here. Founding Father of Computer Science. Sentenced to "behavioral modification" for his homosexuality. Forced to take hormones, made impotent, stripped of his security clearance, and suffering from depression, he either killed himself, died of an accident possibly caused by a loss of focus from the drugs, or was outright killed by the state (it remains a mystery, although suicide is the favored explanation). THIS is the sort of thing that happens to people who fall prey to those that want to "fix gays".

 

[Gotham Central]

Alan Turing

Just seems worth mentioning here. Founding Father of Computer Science. Sentenced to "behavioral modification" for his homosexuality. Forced to take hormones, made impotent, stripped of his security clearance, and suffering from depression, he either killed himself, died of an accident possibly caused by a loss of focus from the drugs, or was outright killed by the state (it remains a mystery, although suicide is the favored explanation). THIS is the sort of thing that happens to people who fall prey to those that want to "fix gays".

What was done to Alan Turing was cruel and unfortunate. Though being driven by loneliness and depression can happen lead to suicide even without reparative therapy.

Trust me I know. For some of us it didn't get better, so tough choices have to be made. As I said before in this instance this choice is better than the alternative.

For those folks that were welcome in the community and able to eke out a bit of happiness in that world…more power to ya!

But for those of us kept on the outside where options are few…you make the best choice you can. Honestly, if like Turing, the therapy ends in depression and death, I'd rather get there knowing that I took every option open to me instead of jumping to the end game now.

It just sucks that right now I have to wait another 14 weeks. I just have to hold on and try to make it until then.

 

[IndyJones]

For those folks that were welcome in the community and able to eke out a bit of happiness in that world…more power to ya!

What's the community, though? The bar scene, the gay intramurals, gay church groups, gay nerds groups, the internet?

What do you want from the community, and what have you tried, to justify such an extreme action?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Gotham, as I mentioned before, despite thinking that seeking gay conversion therapy is the wrong course of action for you or anyone else, for reasons amply laid out by your fellow posters here, I wish you nothing but the best in overcoming your personal anguish and living a long and fulfilling life.

That being said, as you got the answers you sought early on in the thread, and you seem to be set in your ways regarding going through with gay conversion therapy, the purpose of the thread seems to have run its course. So I've decided to close the thread down. This is no knock on you, and if you want to continue the discussion I encourage you to take it up via PM.

I hope you find the solace you seek, no matter how you attempt to achieve it.