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Scope

Flying Spaghetti Monster

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Although filmed on massive budgets and aimed at more general audiences who might not be familiar with the franchise (or even previously adverse to it) the new films by Bad Robot somehow seemed to reduce the scope of Star Trek. Everything seems smaller, everything comes back the earth, the galaxy seems very small, etc.

Up until recently, the franchise has always had to fight uphill battles with regards to what it can show on relatively limited budgets compared with a lot of other shows and films, and, while almost all Star Trek shows and films concentrate on one crew or one ship, what I like are those scenes that help offer a sense of the true scope of the Star Trek universe and how vast it is, all while staying within a tight budget. Sometimes these moments make the universe itself seem bigger, or at least make that individual adventure seem bigger and more important.


Examples:

Most of Star Trek 6 The Undiscovered Country was filmed on sound-stages or at least in areas near Los Angeles. A few days of pick up shooting featuring none of the principles was done on a glacier in Alaska for the prison escape scene, and were perfectly color-matched to close-ups which were shot at a different time. The location photography in Alaska comprises a mere two or three minutes (if that) of the film, and yet those shots are vast and expand and somehow elevate this film, making the entire film seem bigger. It's pretty brilliant.

Similarly, in Star Trek First Contact, we cut back to the Enterprise after spending some time on Earth talking to Cochran, and we find a great montage of crew-members fighting Borgs and becoming part of their drone army. Originally, the scene would cut to the guy reporting to the bridge saying "things are pretty bad down there" but after a rough cut of the film everyone agreed that a bit more action was needed, and the studio gave the production some extra dollars to film the montage. It was done very late in the game, which is why the principle cast is not seen in these scenes, but I think it is such an important moment in the film. The scene lasts all of a minute or two, and makes the film seem like it has a lot more action, and it gives the Borg sharper "teeth" than they would have had without it, as the audience can see how they assimilate. This is an example how you can really increase the scope of the film and the action with only one the addition of once scene, where as so many modern blockbusters over stuff films with so much damn stimuli that it all becomes boring. I mean, one "Borg Assimilation Montage" was necessary and perfect, but even two in would have been overdoing. I have much more respect for First Contact than I do, for example the reboots even the Marvel films.

Sometimes the scope can be done with almost just good dialogue. For a good while the Deep Space Nine episode Improbable Cause seems like a very intriguing mystery that is only about the mystery itself, who was targeted and how the crime was committed. But then, when Odo takes a runabout to a mysterious world and speaks with his Cardassian contact, the show's scope becomes more expansive. In fact, I would argue that this scene alone made the entire franchise seem more expansive. We knew about Romulans and Klingons and Cardassians before this moment, but hearing the contact speak of them as being all in a single plot in some way like players in a chess match gave a feeling of the vastness of Star Trek's universe unlike any other single moment had been able to do. And how great is this scene!! The recently deceased Joseph Ruskin offers his fantastic voice and presence to the mostly-unseen mysterious Cardassian contact and makes him an unforgettable character. You can't help but be like Odo: whatever this guys saying, you have to pay attention to it. And the character has a very dramatic and dry sense of wit. I love the fact that we only see his eyes and his silhouette, and we are subconsciously thrown off by the fact that the head and eye moments don't quite match with what he is saying. coupled with a big score for this scene, I felt that this moment makes the entire scope of Deep Space Nine feel huge, and it remained that way for the rest of its run.

Any examples where Star Trek has used a simple moment or suggestion to really increase it's own scope and make it all seem "of a piece"?
 
WHAT? Did you miss the scale of the scenes on Vulcan, including the planet cracking up, Nibiru with the big chase through the jungle and the volcano, Delta Vega, the flight over and fight on Kronos, and the alien moon where they disarmed to torpedo? There's more scope in one of the Abrams films than any two of the previous films.
 
WHAT? Did you miss the scale of the scenes on Vulcan, including the planet cracking up, Nibiru with the big chase through the jungle and the volcano, Delta Vega, the flight over and fight on Kronos, and the alien moon where they disarmed to torpedo? There's more scope in one of the Abrams films than any two of the previous films.
They show us all that stuff, but the films don't feel bigger. The Star Trek universe doesn't feel bigger, or more epic despite all the that's on screen
 
I can sort of see your point, but I don't agree with it, it's the 2 minute trip to Kronos and the focus on earth that doesn't help the JJ films, but in terms of the size of the sets and dramatic set-pieces they blow all the previous movies out of the water and then some.

I guess it's more a question of how you define 'epic'
 
I can sort of see your point, but I don't agree with it, it's the 2 minute trip to Kronos and the focus on earth that doesn't help the JJ films, but in terms of the size of the sets and dramatic set-pieces they blow all the previous movies out of the water and then some.

I guess it's more a question of how you define 'epic'
Well, in the new films, a guy in a single mining ship can seem to (with validity) threaten the entire Federation.. something that we know has hundreds of member worlds

Before this the Federation seemed to be a major palyer in galactic politics.

also, on a visual level, would FC be improved by having many assimilation montages. No. One key sequence is enough. The new films are on overload.

You can do more with less
 
The key is not just what is shown.. meaning not how much is shown.

If they showed us every Hobbit hole in the Shire in The LOTR films, that would not have increased the scope of the films. It's that that the story started there and expanded into the world.

I would argue that Middle-Earth felt bigger the less we saw of it: Fellowship had Boromir describing Gondor and the white tower and that felt somehow more grand than seeing it later. In Star Wars, the universe felt bigger in the original trilogy despite seeing mainly backwater planets with no Coruscant in sight. The older Star Trek films and episodes had the same effect in making the universe feel grand.
 
Maybe it's because you were a wide eyed kid soaking it all up for the first time, you imagination rushing to fill in the blanks.

Tiny mentions of "Kolinahr" and the "Katric Ark" in ST'09 were "Vulcan mumbo jumbo" to casual viewers, "that thing from TMP" to most fans, but as a lifelong superfan I knew the entire backstory of the arks and origins of Kolinahr from the old novel The Lost Years (some of which came up in ENT's 4th season). You didn't have to have it spelled out, but if you even Googled it there's a ton of backstory there.

Earth has always been something of a mystery in Trek. Now we've gotten a good look at the world that launched the Enterprise, the whole franchise can be seen in a slightly different light. It may be too much show for those who liked the mystery, but for me it was truly epic.
 
... threaten the entire Federation.. something that we know has hundreds of member worlds
But in the JJ-verse we actually don't know this. Kirk's excitement at the possibility of being choosen for (the first?) five year mission makes it seem like the federation really isn't all that large. We do see a couple of dozen non-Humans, but no one spoke of hundreds of federation members.

It doesn't sound like Humans have ventured thousands of light years away from home.

:)
 
Frankly, I've always been surprised by the limited scope of Generations and Nemesis (not Insurrection, though -- it was intentionally meant to be small-scale). Generations had a mystery that spanned some 80 years, but it played more like a series of coincidences not unlike a PC game of the mid-90s. Nemesis had a WAR brewing, but other than lip service you couldn't really tell the potential consequences; ironic considering how a large portion of the movie involves shooting each other back and forth.
 
As much as I was critical of the Bad Robot films, I do appreciate that the writers obviously know their Trek. I noticed Kohlinar and katric arc as well, and the ease in which the back stories were incorporated into the script. From watching TOS and the old films we knew that:

- Spock was half human. His father was a Vulcan ambassador to Earth
- That he was considered an outcast an Vulcan children made fun of him.
- That he refused to join the VSA against the wishes of his father to join Starfleet.
These points were established separately but were integrated into an actual character arc in the film. But the actual present day action, though filmed big, just felt limited to me.
 
Showing too much can definitely shrink the universe.
Since DS9 was mentioned, I always felt that ep. "Defiant" was done badly because it showed how small Cardassians are:
real-time communication, tons of ships looking for Defiant, it felt like the entire Union was made up of less than 10 sectors...

Same concept in TNG in "The Wounded" and we get a completely different picture. Only one Cardassian can intercept the Phoenix, even that is shown on a simple graphic simulation with Data narrating dramatically. It immediately makes the space feel bigger.

In First Contact they start out similarly well with Admiral setting it up, and then we hear the radio chatter and can only imagine the scope of the battle. Then they screw it up by showing the Enterprise fly in what seems like hours from border to Earth.

Section 31 in DS9...we see no headquarters, no other officers but 2 irrc, they seem everywhere and it makes you wonder....Are they few in number, but have some kind of special technology, who are they, who is Sloan? They show the sheer scope and power of Sloan or Sec 31 if it even exists (case could be made it doesn't!) simply by showing him beem into Bashir's quarters without getting caught. Such a simple great scene... NuTrek shows you an office with some computers and the magic is lost. Just another intelligence agency, nothing special

Scope is very important to the feel of the film, good topic.
 
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