Yep.
Is it time to put Star Trek to rest?
- Thread starter Dar70
- Start date
The more I think about this topic, the more I think I'd have been happy with no spin-offs, just the TOS movies as produced (including TFF) and that's all. No bloody TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, or anything from Abrams or Kurtzman.
That said, I also think Paramount screwed up Star Trek by refusing to budge on using Phase Two to launch their own network. It just wasn't the right time. They should have learned their lesson from the success of the TOS reruns and put Phase Two in syndication. It might have gone on for several years and spawned its own spin-offs and sequel series and maybe even movies.
That said, I also think Paramount screwed up Star Trek by refusing to budge on using Phase Two to launch their own network. It just wasn't the right time. They should have learned their lesson from the success of the TOS reruns and put Phase Two in syndication. It might have gone on for several years and spawned its own spin-offs and sequel series and maybe even movies.
It's not at all in the spirit of IDIC to label and dismiss people with whom you disagree as "undesirables."
Was it time for Star Trek to rest or time to pass the reins on to new blood?
Voyager was fine. It's a guilty pleasure, but the people in charge were getting tired. By ENT I think they were nodding off.
Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant.
I'm not intolerant of people who enjoy Voyager. To you point, though, I think TNG had become dull and stale by the fifth season and DS9 was specifically designed to be what TNG wasn't. Voyager was initially intended to also be different, but spent most of its seven years retreading and rehashing a series that became by-the-numbers and dull (for the most part) by its fifth season. ENT was another "let's try something different but really just do TNG again" fiasco.
No one outside of DS9 (and really, only Behr and Moore) wanted to push beyond what TNG had become. In the end, that leaves DS9 as the last series that truly broke new ground. To me and others, that's why it remains the second best series after TOS and why none of the other spin-offs (even most of TNG) are worth revisiting.
Didn't Discovery and Picard break new ground by completely abandoning any semblance of TOS/TNG style storytelling?
I mean, they were largely awful (though most of DS9 was for me too), but they broke new ground, if that's the criteria for adding value to a franchise. Same for LD and Prodigy, I suppose, and the upcoming SFA thing that almost nobody's interested in.
In my opinion, neither broke any new ground since they abandoned any semblance of true Trek storytelling and even failed to correctly capture the tone and characterization of the TNG cast.
As for DS9, it "added value" at a time when Trek needed something truly different to survive. It turns out that the studio didn't really want that even though it asked for it, hence their failure to promote it and its status as the "red-headed stepchild" of the franchise. Voyager and Enterprise were TNG Lite with consistently diminishing returns and yet the studio was dumbfounded as to why the ratings were falling with each season.
That's a Catch-22. If Picard was more like TNG itself, you'd say it's "more TNG!!!!" But Picard tries to be different and then you say, "it's not TNG!!!!" Putting the series in a situation where it can't win with you, no matter what it does.
I like Picard Season 1, but I'm dead-certain it wouldn't be to your tastes, and I generally don't defend Season 2. But, for Picard Season 3, that I will defend. It's basically the fifth TNG Movie done as if it were a TOS Movie, except as a season of Streaming TV. Seeing TNG done as if it was a TOS Movie was the thing I never knew I needed.
IMO, Picard Season 3 is the second-best TNG "Movie" after First Contact. But I'm going to guess First Contact probably isn't your thing either.
Well, the Berman era is my favorite era (especially TNG and VOY), so I wouldn’t want that.
I think the newest era is a mixed bag. LDS and SNW are really enjoyable. DSC was good in my mind but I completely understand why others don’t like it.
Other than the first few episodes of Season 1, I thought PIC was shit.
So in the end we all have our preferences and dislikes. But I definitely don’t want them to stop making Star Trek.
See? I KNEW there were people who liked it when they were making TV shows AND movies at the same time!
You guess correctly. All of the TNG movies were nothing more than poorly-written excuses for a bunch of friends to get together and have fun while also getting a paycheck. The characters are incredibly off character and the stories are weak. FC's story is perhaps the worst, riddled with narrative illogic and out of character moments that makes the film seem like an alternate universe take. As for Picard Season 3, I felt it was more of the same but with tons of fanwankery to disguise the overall mess it was. If, however, it had been truly like a TOS movie (especially TMP), it might have been something special. After all, TMP is the purest Star Trek movie of all and TNG was fashioned very much in its image after it underperformed critically. A compelling story of exploration with rich and authentic characterization would have been a great approach to a TNG film or one of Picard's seasons.That's a Catch-22. If Picard was more like TNG itself, you'd say it's "more TNG!!!!" But Picard tries to be different and then you say, "it's not TNG!!!!" Putting the series in a situation where it can't win with you, no matter what it does.
I like Picard Season 1, but I'm dead-certain it wouldn't be to your tastes, and I generally don't defend Season 2. But, for Picard Season 3, that I will defend. It's basically the fifth TNG Movie done as if it were a TOS Movie, except as a season of Streaming TV. Seeing TNG done as if it was a TOS Movie was the thing I never knew I needed.
IMO, Picard Season 3 is the second-best TNG "Movie" after First Contact. But I'm going to guess First Contact probably isn't your thing either.
I would rather see Trek go back into drydock for a few years (even decades) if it means it will one day return with true science fiction writers and people who know and understand the lore at the helm. Until then, it's just more big corporate product shat out for profit, consumed primarily by people with middling to non-existent critical standards.
I have critical standards.
[Imagine the elderly Aunt Manya from Seinfeld saying that just now]
And I like SNW and other current Trek content.
[Imagine the elderly Aunt Manya from Seinfeld saying that just now]
And I like SNW and other current Trek content.
People who lock themselves into the preconception of they way they think something should be or play out (no matter what it is) and refuse to budge are an odd lot.
I figured as much. Had to give it a try anyway.
We're on the same page about TOS, so that works for me.
DS9... I'm almost exactly in the middle of a re-watch of it. It's good. Especially the fourth season, where I'm at. But as far as how it stands on TrekBBS (and TrekBBS only), I still think DS9 is a little overrated, only a little, and TNG is somewhat underrated.
I seriously re-discovered TNG when I re-watched the whole thing in the lead-up to PIC. Before that, my attitude towards it was the same as a lot of other people's here.
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