Spoilers Russell T. Davies Returns to Doctor Who as New Showrunner

[jaime]

Hard disagree. JMS as Doctor Who Showrunner would be the equivalent of Stephen King Showrunning an adaptation of The Dark Tower.

Not really. King is the creator of The Dark Tower.

JMS can write some great stuff, but his standard-issue Hollywood Anglophile ways would lead to some utter weirdness I reckon. I also don’t want a full reboot, and he may be tempted.

 

[jaime]

You're either seriously ignorant of the width and breadth of JNS' works, or you're just trying to be a contrarian.



I picked Stephen King as my analogue because I thought I'd get crucified for picking my first choice, Neil Gaiman.

Hell no.

Even if he wasn’t a fucking predatory pervert (allegedly) he actually isn’t suited to Who beyond the odd story *at all*. And *all* his TV production experience comes from his own stuff being adapted. And even those has made some… choices.

 

[Steve Roby]

comparing torchwood to Andor is like...well I have no idea what analogy would work there!

To quote my friend Gordon

The Sarah Jane Adventures. Written by adults for children

Torchwood. Written by children for adults

Torchwood was flawed, but it had some great individual episodes, and Children of Earth would come pretty close to being Doctor Who's Andor. Miracle Day... well, maybe RTD just has bad luck doing US co-productions.

 

[Jedman67]

If Billie wasn't already a Series Regular on Wednesday, I think the likelihood of her doing the role of The Doctor for a season would be much greater.

Almost tempted to watch that show again. But probably not. I just didn't enjoy it.

 

[jaime]

That's a good point. They've got no shortage of Doctor Who connections, not least through their League of Gentlemen partner Mark Gatiss, and Inside No. 9 shows they can manage a show that's wildly different every week. There's a darkness to a lot of their stuff, but I suspect they'd be a better match for Doctor Who than Charlie Brooker. It'd be interesting to see an occasional episode by him, though, if it was the version of Brooker who wrote "San Junipero" and "Hang the DJ" and not the darker stuff. It may be that they're not interested in working on something that's not their own creation, but Davies, Moffat, and Chibnall all worked on Doctor Who after having some successful shows of their own.

Haven't heard much mention of Gatiss as a showrunner for Doctor Who lately, but I don't know if any of his episodes for Davies or Moffat would be considered fan favourites. He's doing pretty well right now with Bookish, anyway.



I probably should give Sense 8 a try one of these days. But as fun as watching The Matrix was the first time, it fell apart on thinking about it and I haven't felt the need to see anything else of theirs. My wife watched Jupiter Ascending once. I caught a bit of it then tuned out.

I like Gatiss, but I don’t think he wants the stress.
I think he also knows he might accidentally make it into the Hinchcliffe-era Redux Plus Plus, as that’s where his tastes lie, and he knows that can only work for so long and these days would skew to a different audience than the one the beeb actually want.
I think that’s why he liked working with Moff, as it balances out where he knows he would go.
Like Moff, he does have a proper love and knowledge of the shows history, in that truly geeky way.
Something I actually think RTD lacks tbh.
He knows the bits he likes, and he has his memories of things, but he is not the kind of person who might… go and check.
(Word on the street was that stack of NAs you see behind him in interviews sometimes? Yeah. Second hand purchase when he became show runner pretty much as set dresssing for his office. I don’t know if I believe that, as he would at least have had his own first book right?)

Now, I personally don’t think that being a fan should be necessary, but the way the show is now, and the way it interfaces with its audience these days — I think it may be a necessary evil. Because it’s a show with a long history that is a massive part of its value.

Whilst I think Gatiss gets that, and would be good, I think he doesn’t believe those things of himself.

 

[The Nightmare Doctor]

Perhaps Booker could create the "Andor" version of Dr. Who. Which would last maybe 3 seasons before returning to a more lighthearted approach.

Again, that's nothing like Brooker's wheelhouse.

Please stop throwing random crap against the wall to see what sticks. It's getting really old.

 

[Mr J]

Ncuti isn't coming back, he's moved on, I'm never sure he was that into the role, and given his comments about workload it would be an odd move to do an about face now.

I loved him in the role but in hindsight I wish RTD hadn't had his head turned at the last minute.

Agreed, sadly. I think he would have happily done a third and possibly final series, but Disney's dithering and meddling with timetables really screwed the pooch on that one. A shame.

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

Perhaps Booker could create the "Andor" version of Dr. Who. Which would last maybe 3 seasons before returning to a more lighthearted approach.

I think that was called "Torchwood."

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I like Gatiss, but I don’t think he wants the stress.
I think he also knows he might accidentally make it into the Hinchcliffe-era Redux Plus Plus, as that’s where his tastes lie, and he knows that can only work for so long and these days would skew to a different audience than the one the beeb actually want.
I think that’s why he liked working with Moff, as it balances out where he knows he would go.
Like Moff, he does have a proper love and knowledge of the shows history, in that truly geeky way.
Something I actually think RTD lacks tbh.

I'm not sure Moffat had anywhere near that knowledge. He certainly didn't on Sherlock, where Gatiss could speak extemporaneously and knowledgeably about Doyle and the Canon in interviews, while Moffat could not and his level of knowledge about Holmes, Doyle, and the Canon seemed to be more folk memory. (There was one interview where Moffat talked about Moriarty in the Canon, and I wrote on Facebook, "Has he even read the Canon?")

I'm not saying Moffat wasn't knowledgeable about Doctor Who, but it always seemed to me like a very idiosyncratic, rooted in 90s fandom and USEnet culture knowledge of Who.

That said, I'm not sure a showrunner needs to come to the table with a deep, intimate knowledge of a property. Today, there are references to everything, and everything (or close to it) can be rewatched and dissected endlessly. Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer had very little knowledge of Star Trek in 1981, but they educated themselves and made a damn fine movie.

Do I believe RTD was a childhood fan? Absolutely. Do I care what level of personal knowledge he brought to the table twenty-plus years ago or that his NA collection might've been for show? Not really. The results spoke for themselves then.

The necessary skills are the ability to write, write well, and produce the show. I know this will be controversial, but being a Doctor Who fan is not a necessary skill for being the Doctor Who showrunner. If RTD's successor is someone who's worked in sitcoms for a decade and never written Doctor Who or even expressed an opinion about it, I'm fine with that. Doctor Who can be learned. The writing and production skills are the ones that matter most.

 

[Zombie Cheerleader]

imagine if paramount via cbs signed doctor who then we could see star trek doctor who crossovers

which would be crazy because the usa verison of ghosts on cbs is based on the uk tv show ghosts which is on bbc

Why is it "crazy"? The USA has been poaching UK shows for decades. "All In The Family" is based on "Till Death Do Us Part". "Sanford and Son" is based on "Steptoe and Son," And of course "The Office" is based on...wait for it..."The Office."

 

[Daedalus]

I don't really have a lot to add to the next showrunner debate, but my main hope is that they don't double down on the whole "Whoniverse" thing.

One short-term spinoff of a popular character or monster per decade? Sure. Just no content for the sake of content, its not a model that suits Doctor Who's uniqueness.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I genuinely want RTD to have the chance to finish his second era properly. If he doesn’t, it risks being remembered as the era that stalled - full of lingering threads and unfinished ideas. Ideally, he’ll get at least one more season, maybe even two, to bring his plans to a satisfying conclusion, even if that includes a Billie-shaped diversion.

Honestly, I'm happy to see the Disney situation resolved, and if he'd be willing and able, would love to have Ncuti return to continue and wrap up the storylines as originally intended.

I’ve really enjoyed this era overall - it’s felt like a return to form after Chibnall’s run, with some bold experimentation. That said, there have been some questionable creative choices, which seem to be a mix of RTD’s eccentricities and what I suspect is Disney’s influence. While Disney isn’t the majority stakeholder, interviews have confirmed they’ve had input. The finales, in particular, haven’t quite landed. Some of the choices have been questionable. 8 episodes a season never feels quite enough to land the ending.

In fact, I think a lower BBC budget and a renewed focus on the UK core audience might actually play to RTD’s strengths as a storyteller. His best work is raw, "kitchen-sink" emotional drama - and he always delivers on that. His characters feel alive and vibrant, and the emotional characterisation hurts, makes you smile, makes you cry. He deserves the chance to do what he does best. I always felt that his first era truly hit its stride from Series 3 onwards - not that Series 1 or 2 were weak, but Series 3 and 4 really cemented his legacy. My worry is that we’re on the verge of missing out on the best of RTD’s second era, just as it’s finding its footing.

110%

 

[Judge Death]

That said, I'm not sure a showrunner needs to come to the table with a deep, intimate knowledge of a property. Today, there are references to everything, and everything (or close to it) can be rewatched and dissected endlessly. Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer had very little knowledge of Star Trek in 1981, but they educated themselves and made a damn fine movie.

And given we've been talking about Andor, Tony Gilroy isn't a huge Star Wars fan.

And someone like Matt Smith was from a generation who hadn't grown up with Who and still made a perfect Doctor.

 

[Captaindemotion]

And given we've been talking about Andor, Tony Gilroy isn't a huge Star Wars fan.

And someone like Matt Smith was from a generation who hadn't grown up with Who and still made a perfect Doctor.

And, famously, neither Nick Myer nor Harve Bennett were Star Trek fans before making TWOK.

 

[jaime]

I'm not sure Moffat had anywhere near that knowledge. He certainly didn't on Sherlock, where Gatiss could speak extemporaneously and knowledgeably about Doyle and the Canon in interviews, while Moffat could not and his level of knowledge about Holmes, Doyle, and the Canon seemed to be more folk memory. (There was one interview where Moffat talked about Moriarty in the Canon, and I wrote on Facebook, "Has he even read the Canon?")

I'm not saying Moffat wasn't knowledgeable about Doctor Who, but it always seemed to me like a very idiosyncratic, rooted in 90s fandom and USEnet culture knowledge of Who.

That said, I'm not sure a showrunner needs to come to the table with a deep, intimate knowledge of a property. Today, there are references to everything, and everything (or close to it) can be rewatched and dissected endlessly. Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer had very little knowledge of Star Trek in 1981, but they educated themselves and made a damn fine movie.

Do I believe RTD was a childhood fan? Absolutely. Do I care what level of personal knowledge he brought to the table twenty-plus years ago or that his NA collection might've been for show? Not really. The results spoke for themselves then.

The necessary skills are the ability to write, write well, and produce the show. I know this will be controversial, but being a Doctor Who fan is not a necessary skill for being the Doctor Who showrunner. If RTD's successor is someone who's worked in sitcoms for a decade and never written Doctor Who or even expressed an opinion about it, I'm fine with that. Doctor Who can be learned. The writing and production skills are the ones that matter most.

Your distinction there between Gatiss and Moffat on Holmes is the same distinction I suspect between RTD and Moffat (and indeed Gatiss). Based purely on watching them talk about the show or its history, and even somewhat in their writing. (I feel I should probably throw in Chibnall for contrast, but suspect he falls somewhere between the two.)

That thought of Moff being rooted in 90s fandom is likely true (as are all the clique) but at the same time, fandom for Who in the nineties was borderline academic, and the stories that were produced in the novels at the time were pretty good a lot of the time. There’s probably not a better time to have been a fan — before the expanded media got too unwieldy, and when most of the people still making Who were more or less singing from the same hymn sheet.

I completely agree that the deep knowledge of Who perhaps shouldn’t be necessary, but at some point in the shows history it became necessary (even JNT had been working on the show off and on since Troughtons time) and the rumour about *why* those NAs are on the shelf I think is symptomatic of that.
I think that the BBC and modern fandoms both require that level of commitment from the person at the top, rather than it being a jobbing gig like in the Beeb of old.

I also agree on the writing and producing, but wonder — not for the first time — if exec producer and script editor is not a better setup, also as in days of old.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I also agree on the writing and producing, but wonder — not for the first time — if exec producer and script editor is not a better setup, also as in days of old.

I often think more in terms of the Berman-era Star Trek set-up -- someone at the top that's the studio interface and final say (Berman), a creative producer who runs the writers room (Piller, Behr), and line producers who actually make the filming run on time (Lauritson). The Who set-up the last twenty years has been to mash the first two (studio interface, head writer) into one, and while I feel like Collinson was good at making the train move, including RTD, none of Moffat's line producers had the same ability.

The thing about Berman-era Trek is that Berman was never a creative guy. He was a studio, money guy. Maybe the next Doctor Who head honcho needs to be a money, line producer type first with a vision who brings on the creative producer to execute and run the writers room.

Frankly, if you want someone with genre experience who can do that, I'd hire Brannon Braga. I've thought for close to fifteen years he'd be perfect. He'd deliver weird, on time, and on budget.

 

[Jayson Poorknees]

comparing torchwood to Andor is like...well I have no idea what analogy would work there!

To quote my friend Gordon

The Sarah Jane Adventures. Written by adults for children

Torchwood. Written by children for adults

I think "Children of Earth" compares pretty well to Andor.

 

[jaime]

I often think more in terms of the Berman-era Star Trek set-up -- someone at the top that's the studio interface and final say (Berman), a creative producer who runs the writers room (Piller, Behr), and line producers who actually make the filming run on time (Lauritson). The Who set-up the last twenty years has been to mash the first two (studio interface, head writer) into one, and while I feel like Collinson was good at making the train move, including RTD, none of Moffat's line producers had the same ability.

The thing about Berman-era Trek is that Berman was never a creative guy. He was a studio, money guy. Maybe the next Doctor Who head honcho needs to be a money, line producer type first with a vision who brings on the creative producer to execute and run the writers room.

Frankly, if you want someone with genre experience who can do that, I'd hire Brannon Braga. I've thought for close to fifteen years he'd be perfect. He'd deliver weird, on time, and on budget.

And we’d get the first silver catsuit since Zoe Herriot!

 

[FredH]

One short-term spinoff of a popular character or monster per decade? Sure. Just no content for the sake of content, its not a model that suits Doctor Who's uniqueness.

I certainly don’t need another multi-part cross-media event that ends anticlimactically and ultimately doesn’t affect the actual show anyway, ever again.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I'd take JMS over Brannon Braga.