Spoilers Riverdale

[Christopher]

It occurs to me there's a strong meta reason why Betty's dad isn't the murderer -- Betty is the archetypal girl-next-door, and to have her father premeditatedly murder her sister's boyfriend would do severe damage to the character and her archetype.

I think that ship sailed the moment Alice said she hoped Jason was rotting in hell. Betty's parents in this show are awful, twisted people, and Betty herself has kind of a borderline-deranged streak we've seen once or twice (like when she almost drowned a guy in a hot tub by stepping on his head and apparently thought she was Polly at the time). Which actually has some precedent in the comics, according to ComicsAlliance's running commentaries on the show. Apparently it's always been part of Betty's character that her crush on Archie can get kind of extreme and crazy at times, in a comedic sort of way.

 

[Christopher]

The first part of this episode was hilarious, with the Blossom cabal and its solemn maple syrup ritual. But it took a much darker turn later on. And it put Archie in a really tough, impossible situation through no fault of his own; he was just trying to be a good friend and a good son and he got badly taken advantage of because he didn't realize that the other people involved had less clear and benevolent motives. Veronica also ended up in a rough place by trying to be a good friend in the middle of a situation screwed up by the adult characters. I'm not going to put Betty in the same category, though, because I don't think Alice and Hal Cooper even deserve the title of "adult" what with the way they're behaving.

I really like how fundamentally good-natured the main characters are, and how the show manages to create a lot of conflict and drama without requiring its lead characters to be awful people, because there are other people around them to provide the awfulness. I've never been much of an Archie fan, aside from watching the Filmation cartoon as a kid, but I'm really growing attached to the Riverdale characters.

 

[Greg Cox]

I've seen comments about this on comics sites, and I gather that this has always kind of been Archie's role, to be the amiable-doofus everyman at the center of a cast of more colorful and eccentric characters.

In the comics, he was also the center of the classic Betty-Archie-Veronica triangle. Since the TV show has (largely) de-emphasized that, that may be one of the reasons that Archie seems to be less central to the TV versions, having lost one of his major plot functions. It may be that the writers are struggling to figure out what Archie's role is now that Betty and Veronica aren't competing for him all the time.

As for the murder: my money is on Betty's mom, especially after her violent outburst last night, throwing the rock through the door and all. And her threatening words to Betty's dad: "You don't know what I'm capable of," etc.

(Or words to that effect.)

She's pretty tightly wound (to say the least) and is no fan of Jason and the other Blossoms.

 

[Christopher]

In the comics, he was also the center of the classic Betty-Archie-Veronica triangle. Since the TV show has (largely) de-emphasized that, that may be one of the reasons that Archie seems to be less central to the TV versions, having lost one of his major plot functions. It may be that the writers are struggling to figure out what Archie's role is now that Betty and Veronica aren't competing for him all the time.

Well, last night's episode put him in the middle of a similar "triangle" dynamic between two of his other comics love interests, Cheryl and Valerie.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the show's Betty and Veronica as best friends more than I'd enjoy seeing them as rivals. I think they made the right choice there. The friendships and mutual support among the core foursome are the show's main draw for me.

 

[Greg Cox]

Well, last night's episode put him in the middle of a similar "triangle" dynamic between two of his other comics love interests, Cheryl and Valerie.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the show's Betty and Veronica as best friends more than I'd enjoy seeing them as rivals. I think they made the right choice there. The friendships and mutual support among the core foursome are the show's main draw for me.

Oh, yeah, I can see why they decided to go another way on the TV show. Just suggesting that may be part of why Archie feels less central to the proceedings these days. He's no longer the fulcrum of an ongoing triangle, which was the story engine that powered a lot of comics.

It dawns on me that the comics also got a lot of mileage out of Archie trying to impress Mr. Lodge, who didn't think Archie was good enough for Veronica, and out of Mr. Lodge trying to break up Archie and Veronica. We've lost those perennial stock situations, too.

 

[Christopher]

Well, I guess there's a reason the show is named Riverdale instead of Archie. Although I'd say that Archie is essentially the nexus around which the other characters revolve. He's friends with Jughead and Betty, so he's the link between those two, with Veronica being connected both to him and to Betty. He's, obviously, connected to Fred Andrews and his storylines with other adult characters. His interest in music connects him to Josie and the Pussycats (and to "Miss Grundy," but I think we're all trying to forget that subplot), and being on the football team connects him to Reggie, Moose, and others, as well as head cheerleader Cheryl -- and Cheryl and the Blossoms are further drawn to him because of his resemblance to Jason. So he's the anchor to the show, even if he's not the most active or interesting part of it.

By the way, I was disappointed to discover that the ComicsAlliance news site, which was my chief source of information about Archie Comics and whose Riverdale reviews I was quite enjoying, was abruptly shut down by its owners last week, with no advance warning. This is actually the second time that's happened to CA, and the first time, they were able to find a new home and get back in business before too long. But I gather that the comics-news-site industry is not doing great lately, so that another revival seems unlikely. That's a shame, since CA was my favorite one.

 

[Photoman15]

after the last episode, my money is for Jason's killer to be.....


Cheryl (the not-as-good as the male heir sister).

 

[marillion]

I don't think you're far off.. I don't think she pulled the trigger, mind you, but I do think it was her plan and she paid someone to do it. Jug's dad having Jason's letter jacket in his closet is too much of a telegraph.. But I know he knows who did it and is helping to cover it up.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Polly did it.

Although, what if Miss Grundy just straddled any under aged ginger lad she gets a bean on?

Seriously, Archie has to be Cheryls like 2nd cousin, considering the rareness of natural redheads in America.

She no longer has an alibi, since the gun shot that she heard with Archie was really a week before Jason bought the farm.

 

[Christopher]

I don't think it'll be Cheryl, since she's too major a part of the Archie Comics cast. Okay, they killed off Jason, but I don't think he's quite as central as Cheryl. I'm expecting it to be one of the more secondary characters.

 

[Christopher]

It's the apocalypse! Jughead took his hat off!

(Which actually is a sort of apocalypse, since that word literally means "unveiling.")

It's a bit contrived and clumsy as a plot device the way Cheryl pulled this "game" to ensure that all the characters' big secrets were brought out all at once, but I can excuse it because it feels like a teenagery thing to do. I kind of wish it had stayed with the subject of Jason's murder, just turned into this big drawing-room mystery thing where all the suspects are confronted and have to account for themselves.

Archie and Veronica making out feels more natural this time, more earned and organic, than it did in the pilot. Hopefully Betty being with Jughead means she'll be okay with it when she finds out.

In the "dance-off" between Cheryl and Veronica, I know we were supposed to be rooting for Ronnie and the script had her win, but I thought Madelaine Petsch's dancing was considerably more impressive and athletic than Camila Mendes's (though I find Mendes extremely impressive in most other respects). But I wonder if maybe that was intentional -- that the Vixens' preference for Veronica over Cheryl was really about personality and the dance-off was just their excuse.

Also, Lili Reinhart's singing of "Happy Birthday" was just beautiful.

I agree with the suggestion I heard a while back that the show's version of Chuck Clayton should've been Reggie Mantle instead. Reggie is supposed to be Riverdale's biggest jerk, while the comics' Chuck is pretty much the nicest guy around, or so I gather. And the show's Reggie is a surprisingly minor presence, and a surprisingly decent one compared to his namesake.

Did I mishear, or did the lyrics of the song playing in the diner when Betty and Jughead were there contain the name "Ethel Muggs?" It would be bizarrely metatextual for a song about one of their classmates to exist in their world, and for them not even to notice it. And weird for the producers to put it in a scene where Ethel didn't appear.

 

[tenmei]

I do enjoy the fact that nobody bats an eyelid at Kevin and Joaquin - and that Kevin isn't a complete arse like LGBTI characters could be depicted as in other shows. Plus - it does help that Rob Raco, who plays Joaquin, has the most stunning eyes.

Also liked the fact that we've gained a semi official name for the friend - if Buffy has the Scooby Gang, then Riverdale has been handed The Inner Circle.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I thought the party would be a bit more debauched than it was. When things looked wonky in the teaser, I was sure that the kids would be taking E. No, Archie was just drunk out of his mind.

Betty wearing a Jughead crown sweater was a cute touch. Their fight surprised me, especially Jughead's vehemence. I'm not holding out hope for these two.

So, Betty's mom is from the wrong side of the tracks, too.

FP's comment that the kids were more on the ball with Jason's murder than the sheriff amused me more than it should. It also happens to be true; Sheriff Keller doesn't seem like he's trying that hard to get to the bottom of Jason's death.

 

[tenmei]

So, Betty's mom is from the wrong side of the tracks, too.

Random Theory - in part because Raco/Joaquin resembles FP/Ulrich. An episode or two ago, it was suggested that Mr Cooper had wanted Alice to have an abortion. Do we know how much older than The Inner Circle, Joaquin is? Could it be possible for Joaquin to have been FP and Alice's kid?

 

[Christopher]

I thought the party would be a bit more debauched than it was. When things looked wonky in the teaser, I was sure that the kids would be taking E. No, Archie was just drunk out of his mind.

Yeah, I had much the same impression, that Cheryl's plan was to spike the punch with some hallucinogen or something. I was a bit unclear on how some of the bacchanalia in the teaser's flashforwards fit into the chronology of the actual party.

Betty wearing a Jughead crown sweater was a cute touch. Their fight surprised me, especially Jughead's vehemence. I'm not holding out hope for these two.

They did seem to get over it, though. I took Jughead's "I'm weird, we're too different" thing to be more about his fear of taking a chance on opening up, when he's so used to being a loner. And at the end, after Betty's confession, he must've realized that she's not the "perfect girl next door" after all -- that underneath the facade, she's as weird and dark as he is, so they're actually a pretty good match. Heck, she's probably weirder and darker. His weirdness is largely a conscious affectation, a surface performance, while hers comes from deep within.

 

[Greg Cox]

I

So, Betty's mom is from the wrong side of the tracks, too..

Counting down to Betty's mom hooking up with Jughead's dad . . .

 

[tenmei]

They did seem to get over it, though. I took Jughead's "I'm weird, we're too different" thing to be more about his fear of taking a chance on opening up, when he's so used to being a loner. And at the end, after Betty's confession, he must've realized that she's not the "perfect girl next door" after all -- that underneath the facade, she's as weird and dark as he is, so they're actually a pretty good match. Heck, she's probably weirder and darker. His weirdness is largely a conscious affectation, a surface performance, while hers comes from deep within.

The relationship has come over - to me at the very least - as Betty wanting to be in a relationship, not necessarily in a relationship with Jughead. He was just the person to hand, the most receptive to the possibility of advances - he seems too polite to refuse, and now Betty is emotionally invested in it, he's totally out of his depth and doesn't know how to push her away without hurting her. Eventually he breaks - but then witnesses how much he's upsetting her and told to make it up after talking to FP. It reads as Jughead taking those actions not necessarily because he wants to, but because he thinks he has to.

I was hoping the argument would build to a 'I'm just not that into you -' and introduce his asexuality into the show.

Also - on a side-note: Anyone else hoping that they manage to get Ally Sheedy in to play Jughead's mom?

 

[Christopher]

Also - on a side-note: Anyone else hoping that they manage to get Ally Sheedy in to play Jughead's mom?

Any particular reason for choosing that connection? Is it just because she's brunette, or is there something more? I remember finding Sheedy very hot back in the day, especially in her Hill Street Blues guest turn which I think was kind of a breakout role for her, but the only other things I knew her from were WarGames and Short Circuit. I was never into the "Brat Pack"/John Hughes-type film genre of that era.

 

[tenmei]

Because she was in Breakfast Club with Molly Ringwald (aka Mary Andrews) and it's the sort of thing I could imagine the show doing. They referenced the movie in Episode 5 and the next issue of the tie-in comic is an homage to the movie

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The relationship has come over - to me at the very least - as Betty wanting to be in a relationship, not necessarily in a relationship with Jughead. He was just the person to hand, the most receptive to the possibility of advances - he seems too polite to refuse, and now Betty is emotionally invested in it, he's totally out of his depth and doesn't know how to push her away without hurting her. Eventually he breaks - but then witnesses how much he's upsetting her and told to make it up after talking to FP. It reads as Jughead taking those actions not necessarily because he wants to, but because he thinks he has to.

I think that's a very good read on the Betty/Jughead thing.

My gut feeling is that things between Betty and Jughead will change dramatically when she learns about whatever's happening between Archie and Veronica. Betty may feel betrayed by her new best friend -- what was left unsaid in the conversation about the scone was noticeably uncomfortable -- and she may decide she wants what she can't have -- Archie.