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Riker to Jellico: There's no Joy. -Are you #$# kidding me?!

@ Mark Antony:

You know Star Trek isn't real, right?

You know that no one had even thought Jellico up yet by the time of BOBW, right?
 
A very interesting topic, I have a few questions/observations:

1) We know that Jellico was brought in because of his ability to negociate with the Cardassians. Given his success at that I think we can take that as given. However, was it ever stated why this required him to given operational command of the Enterprise? (ie Riker would remain in command the day-to-business of the ship, Jellico would be in command of the mission. cf what happened later with Adm Pressman).

2) A poster commented earlier that a 4-shift system would give the crew more time off and expressed surprise that they would object to that.

A) They might object because Jellico was asked them to increase productivity while giving them 25% less time to do it in. However, I don't believe this is likely, if anything I think the reverse is true.

As I understand it, most military watch systems work as 'on, 'off-but ready', sleeping'. Basically the 3-shift system Riker seems to prefer.

B) Assuming any shift change was to increase working hours, then we have two options.
i) All crew work the same pattern, with a twelve hour block on watch (possibly at two different department, implied by Geordi), 6 hours on 'standby', and 6 hours sleeping. Or
ii) The crew 'dog' their watches - 6 hours on, 6 off/standby, 6 hours on (again, possibly at a different post), 6 off.

Am I completely nuts?

Shamrock Holmes
 
^I think if he weren't given operational command, it would have been harder for the Cardassians to believe that this guy was anything but temporary.

By allowing him to run the Enterprise as he saw fit (presumably, the way he ran the Cairo), it would have made the Cardassians go "Hey, they replaced that French guy with this hardass. Where did Picard go?" And, since it was established that he was able to go toe-to-toe with the Cardassians and wasn't afraid to pull punches (see: mines on their hulls) it was a way to underscore how serious the Federation was being.
 
1) We know that Jellico was brought in because of his ability to negociate with the Cardassians. Given his success at that I think we can take that as given. However, was it ever stated why this required him to given operational command of the Enterprise? (ie Riker would remain in command the day-to-business of the ship, Jellico would be in command of the mission. cf what happened later with Adm Pressman).
The most likely reason I can think of is that Starfleet had more confidence in Jellico's command abilities than they had in Riker's. Not just as a negotiator and Cardassian expert, but as a ship commander as well.
 
1) We know that Jellico was brought in because of his ability to negociate with the Cardassians. Given his success at that I think we can take that as given. However, was it ever stated why this required him to given operational command of the Enterprise? (ie Riker would remain in command the day-to-business of the ship, Jellico would be in command of the mission. cf what happened later with Adm Pressman).
The most likely reason I can think of is that Starfleet had more confidence in Jellico's command abilities than they had in Riker's. Not just as a negotiator and Cardassian expert, but as a ship commander as well.
Plus it removes the "Picard Problem". They know Riker and the crew have a soft spot for Picard, Picard was on a high-risk espionage mission in Cardassian space. Figure there was a risk of him or all of them getting captured, they needed a CO that could keep it together and not ruin everything by trying to save his friends.
 
Meanwhile, Captain Riker and the finest crew in Starfleet were saving humankind from utter annihilation.

Exactly so. As a result, Jellico came across as insecure and petty in trying to sit down on them as he did. There is nothing in his (fictional) service record of a nature comparable to Riker's defeat of the Borg.

The character was a one-off, clearly written as a foil for Riker - who, in the end, Jellico has to ask for help - and the inferior of Picard and the other regulars on the show. Otherwise, he'd have been the star of his own series. :lol:

Ronnie Cox played him well, though, unflattering as the costume was for him.
 
Of course, had Riker and crew not bumped heads with Jellico, and just followed his orders professionally, the whole operation would have turned out as it did: i.e. a success. It just would have been a much smoother time doing it. It would not have been a problem for him to ask Riker to fly the shuttle. Hell, he probably would have been the first to volunteer. They would likely have earned more of Jellico's trust and respect in the process. Remember, in the end, Jellico was right.
 
It's not surprising that Starfleet would send an experienced captain to take over the Enterprise during touchy negotiations with a foreign power. Riker never would have been given such an assignment as his first mission with the Melbourne or any of those other potential commands. Sure, you can point to the BOBW mission as evidence that Riker can handle the pressure, but one mission (no matter how impressive) does not necessarily imply an ability to perform consistently--something that can only be proven through experience. I'm sure Starfleet likes to build-up their captains gradually.
 
And with BoBW, he showed he was willing to risk a lot (in that case, the possibility that the Enterprise-D and Earth, at the very least, would be assimilated/destroyed) to rescue Picard. (Whether or not he would have done that for any crew member I'm not sure about).

That doesn't sound like someone you'd necessarily want involved with tense negotiations and saber rattling in disputed territory.
 
Riker and the Titan get sent to Romulus to help what remains of the Romulan government put the pieces back together. Romulans are likely to engage in some loud saber rattling, and after Shinzon's coup, things would be tense at best in the Romulan Empire.

Just sayin'.
 
But he gets the captaincy of the Titan 13 years after Best of Both Worlds, and in a completely different astropolitical environment. And, even in the Titan novel series, he has a Fleet Admiral on board with him to assist in the negotiations and everything.

Plus, he already had established a relationship (as Picard had) with at least one Romulan (Donatra).
 
But he gets the captaincy of the Titan 13 years after Best of Both Worlds, and in a completely different astropolitical environment. And, even in the Titan novel series, he has a Fleet Admiral on board with him to assist in the negotiations and everything.

Plus, he already had established a relationship (as Picard had) with at least one Romulan (Donatra).
Plus by that point (in the prior novels leading into Nemesis and beyond), IRC, Riker's been through some serious shit in his life and he's a changed man. To use a phrase, "he's grown up".
 
Even if you don't count the novels, Riker, and indeed, the whole Federation, has been through some serious shit in the past couple of years, and he has grown up.
 
It's not surprising that Starfleet would send an experienced captain to take over the Enterprise during touchy negotiations with a foreign power. Riker never would have been given such an assignment as his first mission with the Melbourne or any of those other potential commands. Sure, you can point to the BOBW mission as evidence that Riker can handle the pressure, but one mission (no matter how impressive) does not necessarily imply an ability to perform consistently--something that can only be proven through experience. I'm sure Starfleet likes to build-up their captains gradually.

Well, since the 09 movie has been accepted as canon elsewhere around here...

No, no, Starfleet doesn't. One saving of Federation/Earth ass is enough to earn you the captain's chair of Starfleet's top of the line ship.

With even LESS overall experience than Riker had at this point in his career.
 
Remember, in the end, Jellico was right.

In the end, Jellico was gone. He performed competently after a fashion and after his bullying came to naught (other than playing couturier to the ship's counselor), but he was a spear carrier entirely forgotten by the next episode.
 
It's not surprising that Starfleet would send an experienced captain to take over the Enterprise during touchy negotiations with a foreign power. Riker never would have been given such an assignment as his first mission with the Melbourne or any of those other potential commands. Sure, you can point to the BOBW mission as evidence that Riker can handle the pressure, but one mission (no matter how impressive) does not necessarily imply an ability to perform consistently--something that can only be proven through experience. I'm sure Starfleet likes to build-up their captains gradually.

Well, since the 09 movie has been accepted as canon elsewhere around here...

No, no, Starfleet doesn't. One saving of Federation/Earth ass is enough to earn you the captain's chair of Starfleet's top of the line ship.

With even LESS overall experience than Riker had at this point in his career.

:lol: Brilliant point. It's funny to see Admiral Janeway just below you making it up as she goes along now.
 
I'm not sure I'd count the 2009 movie, since that's considered an "alternate continuity".

Is it?

*raises an eyebrow

Look around the board and you'll find you're in the minority. I would agree myself but that doesn't seem to be the case for most here.
 
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