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Ridiculously large ships

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...One might even have started off the idea that these are young versions of our heroes, so they could have adventures scaled to fit. Smaller ships, smaller feats, so that we get an Origins story that does not turn the later life achievements into letdowns.

But of course Abrams didn't want an Origins story, or a prequel of any sort.

Timo Saloniemi
 
It's not as bad as the Space Show Discovery ship measurements. They "claim" it's prime but yet the spinning ship is over 700 meters long, making it more than double he length of a Connie. A ship that was supposed to be the biggest for Starfleet at the time.
Even the Shenzhou is too big.
 
Given that the NuTrek films begin at a point between our only real points of reference (ENT where the ship had a crew in the 80s and "The Cage" where there was only just over 200 onboard) a ship such as the Kelvin having 800 survivors (because lets face it with the damage she takes there would have been losses) seems very out of place, especially as she seems to be acting as a survey ship--given that all other surveyors we've witnessed have all been relatively smaller than most with crew complements to match, add to that the fact that the Constitution-Class is deemed a heavy cruiser and on the forefront of Starfleet operations and exploration then would most likely be kept fully staffed as much as possible. This is for a ship that is meant to be within the Prime Universe, which makes it stand out compared to all other evidence we have available to us.

Whilst some of the changes in design aesthetics could be explained away (i.e. one of Starfleet's most prominent starship designers of the 2240s/50s was an engineer on the Kelvin who was killed during the battle, therefore someone else was given the assignment), that doesn't provide much of an explanation why the fleet suddenly feels the need to double the size of their ships, as it gives them no real advantage or improvement over what we've seen in the Prime Universe (whilst it may allow for more personnel and equipment, if anything making ships larger targets would be a noticeable tactical disadvantage--not exactly a logical compromise).

As from a production standpoint, I can only assume that they wanted to give the ships a bit more gravitas and make them more substantial, but in space with no point of reference then there isn't much point, the Enterprise could be 500 or 5000 meters long and it wouldn't be something that most would be able to discern watching the film. Since the Narada is coming from the future (from a time where we know the major powers are building bigger ships, and as a mining vessel she would be a considerably larger ship than most, given the need to processing and storage bays) then keeping the ships of the 23rd century at their original sizes would've worked just as effectively, showing them to be the underdog in the fight, which would mean having to rely on the guile and quick-thinking tactics Kirk really is famous for (so tension and drama can still be built up on whether or not the ship is going to make it through in one piece). Other than updating designs (either for modern cinema goers or if they had to due to not having the full rights for design elements) there is no real reason why the ships size had to be tampered with, at least none that are apparent.
This is assuming the producers even realized the scale discrepancy between their movies and established canon.

(George Kirk really saved 800 people from the Kelvin? I never caught that before.)

Where does this 750 meter figure (mentioned in the original post) come from? Is there an Abrams Trek equivalent to the published technical manuals, or perhaps an online source?
 
It's not as bad as the Space Show Discovery ship measurements. They "claim" it's prime but yet the spinning ship is over 700 meters long, making it more than double he length of a Connie. A ship that was supposed to be the biggest for Starfleet at the time.
Even the Shenzhou is too big.
The Discovery version of the Enterprise itself looks different and is 480m.
njoNlK2.jpg

fgsHcXL.jpg

gXmnSkO.png

They're rewriting everything, which is fine if your show is a Gotham-style pseudo-prequel, but for some reason they keep insisting it's the same world as TOS.
This is assuming the producers even realized the scale discrepancy between their movies and established canon.

(George Kirk really saved 800 people from the Kelvin? I never caught that before.)

Where does this 750 meter figure (mentioned in the original post) come from? Is there an Abrams Trek equivalent to the published technical manuals, or perhaps an online source?
It's actually 725m, from The ST'09 bluray extras, the movie art book, Star Trek Online and the recent updated Star Trek Encylopedia.
zRrA6LB.jpg

Here's how the internals compare:
hileT5E.jpg

Xr1Muvr.jpg
 
A ship that was supposed to be the biggest for Starfleet at the time.
Even the Shenzhou is too big.

Nonsense. Nobody ever suggested Kirk's ship would have been big, let alone the biggest, in the TOS days. (Heck, there was even a pronounced failure to call her the "best" in any sense, although she was later credited with speed records.)

Kirk just didn't need either biggest or best to be the hero he was.

(George Kirk really saved 800 people from the Kelvin? I never caught that before.)

It's pretty unlikely even 300 people would have fit in the twenty identically sized shuttles we saw survive the loss. After all, we saw the interiors, plus one that left half-empty.

Probably the tired Pike just said "Ah hundred". ;)

Timo Saloniemi
 
Probably the tired Pike just said "Ah hundred". ;)
i always thought he was just being dramatic. like literally, the line was inserted in ADR probably to make the scene more dramatic than a lower, more realistic number would’ve been.
a Gotham-style pseudo-prequel
an apt description of star trek: discovery if i’ve ever heard one.
 
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The producers of TOS at the time said the Enterprise and other Connie ships were the largest ships of Starfleet.
 
It's actually 725m, from The ST'09 bluray extras, the movie art book, Star Trek Online and the recent updated Star Trek Encylopedia.
zRrA6LB.jpg

Here's how the internals compare:
hileT5E.jpg

Xr1Muvr.jpg
That's very interesting. I would never have expected specs on both Kelvinverse and "prime" hardware to have been made available from the same source.
 
'K, maybe the topic hasn't been exhausted yet, after all, but it occurs to me that we already have a long-running thread created specifically for the purpose of talking about the sizes (be they ridiculously large or otherwise) of starships appearing in these films.

So why not let's carry on further discussion of the topic in the aptly-named Starship Size Argument™ thread, and I'll just close this one?
 
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