Rick Berman comments on Babylon 5

[Ssosmcin]

I never understood the one-upmanship. The Sci Fi fanbase is ridiculously competitive. It's like sports teams or something. We have a dozen police procedural shows on the air, with teams of investigators fitting the same sort of roles. Yet the producers of these shows don't badmouth each other and fans relish having a lot of choices in their genre.

Or if one show comes out and it's a success, people aren't trashing the shows following. "You stole my lawyer show concept!" But god help the producers and fans of any SF show that came out after original Trek got popular. If it wasn't living up to Trek, it sucked. If it followed Trek too closely, it was a ripoff. I used to catch hell and attitude by Trekkies who found out I also like Lost in Space and Space:1999. For that reason alone, I don't miss the 70's.

DS9 was a decent show that I followed and enjoyed. Babylon 5 was a decent show that I followed and enjoyed. Neither was perfect, both had great episodes, and both had really awful ones. Whatever.

 

[TheGodBen]

But the similarities are stunning:
http://www.firstones.com/wiki/Similarities_between_Babylon_5_and_Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine

Reading through all those, I think that the majority of them are a stretch. I can see how they can seem plausible if you want to believe them (and I, sadly, know a couple of people that want to believe them) but if you have watched both shows and paid attention to both of them, some of those "similarities" are comical.

Some of them do give you a moment's pause... but I could probably give you a list of similarities between DS9 and Arrested Development if you wanted. Both shows had a widower father for a lead, for example.

 

[Harvey]

I'm not sure what the comparison between Worf, a character created for TNG in 1987 and Delenn is supposed to prove on that list. The rest of the similarities aren't as weak as that, but it's still pretty flimsy.

 

[Tulaberry whine]

No one on DS9 was influenced by anything on B5. Wolfe has said that he and the other DS9 writers didn't watch B5 because they resented (and rightfully so) how Straczynski accused them of being thieves.

the teams behind the two shows were quite friendly to one another the whole way through.

I don't know about "the teams," but I do know the DS9 showmakers resent/ed being called thieves by Straczynski. Also, Straczynski has made many snarky comments about DS9 which disparage DS9's showmakers as being thieves. For example, Straczynski posted spoilers to the Sisko's destiny in WYLB before WYLB originally aired, and when a fan called Straczynski out on that immoral behaviour, Straczynski's excuse was (I'm paraphrasing here): "I didn't see it as a spoiler because the hero dies and goes to live with the Ancient Ones, everyone already saw us do it on Babylon 5".

Wow, just when I thought my opinion of JMS couldn't get any lower ...

 

[Admiral Shran]

Not to mention, MJS had not just Majel, but also other Trek actors appear on his show, too, http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Babylon_5

We all know that only one actor connected to Star Trek appeared on B5.

 

[TheGodBen]

Yes, Billy Dee Williams, who is most famous for playing Neelix, once played a masseuse on B5.

 

[toughlittleship]

A few of the Babylon 5 main and recurring cast appeared on DS9 including Bill Mumy, Tracy Scoggins, Julie Caitlin Brown and Mary Kay Adams.

 

[Bishop76]

Don't forget Andreas Katsulas, one of B5's main characters who played Tomalak on TNG

 

[RandyS]

And what about when JMS got Majel to come on to B5 as a member of Royalty, and said that B5 was a monument to her "late husband's work"? I suppose that was also JMS being disrespectful?

An anyways, what happened to Sheridan and Sisko are both just take off of what happened to Frodo at the end of LOTR.

The main difference is that Sheridan actually died. Sisko didn't.

 

[DWF]

Don't forget Andreas Katsulas, one of B5's main characters who played Tomalak on TNG

He also appeared in Enterprise's Cogenitor too.

 

[Anwar]

And what about when JMS got Majel to come on to B5 as a member of Royalty, and said that B5 was a monument to her "late husband's work"? I suppose that was also JMS being disrespectful?

An anyways, what happened to Sheridan and Sisko are both just take off of what happened to Frodo at the end of LOTR.

The main difference is that Sheridan actually died. Sisko didn't.

Hell, Sheridan's entire "I only have 20 years left to live" thing made no sense since the show already showed stuff like transferring your mind from body to body. I'm sure those first one aliens would've found a way to keep him alive once they took him away (I'm certain he didn't die THEN they took him).

 

[Admiral Shran]

Yes, Billy Dee Williams, who is most famous for playing Neelix, once played a masseuse on B5.

No no, you're confused. Let me clear that up for you....

Billy Dee, seen here, never appeared on B5.

It was this guy - Dirk Benedict, most famous for playing Damar on DS9, who played that one guy on B5 (I can't remember his name though, Franklin?).

 

[Danoz]

In the end, for me, DS9 has more replay value. I'm sure someday I will go back and watch all the B5 episodes again (they are quite good) but that won't be for some time.

 

[ShatnersToupee]

One reason I think it's easy for people to believe that Rick Berman stole from Babylon 5 is because Berman has never been known to come up with a lot of great ideas. TNG wasn't his creation, it was Gene Roddenberry's. And it took people like Michael Piller to make it good. Outside of that, what's he done?

I think what's also true is that there's a lot industrial espionage that goes on between studios. So while the producers and writers themselves may not have been lifting ideas from B5, someone else at Paramount may have been watching and then passing those thoughts down to Berman. Who knows? But let's keep in mind that Hollywood in general isn't very good at coming up with original ideas. When they do, it doesn't stay a secret for long. Before you know it, you have two studios making the same movie and trying to time it so they come out at the same time. Someone earlier mentioned Deep Impact and Armageddon. That's a good example. Another is two teen romantic comedies about the President's daughter falling for a secret service agent, but she didn't know he was an agent. And this year, we have two movies about friends with benefits.

As for JMS, from what I've read about him in interviews, he seems to have a pretty high opinion of himself, which makes it hard to sympathize with the guy when he says that his work was plagiarized.

 

[Anwar]

Especially when a lot of stuff in B5 that folks like to think were JMS' creations were done by earlier shows themselves. B5 wasn't even the first sci-fi show to do the long story arc stuff folks usually attribute to it.

 

[RandyS]

Especially when a lot of stuff in B5 that folks like to think were JMS' creations were done by earlier shows themselves. B5 wasn't even the first sci-fi show to do the long story arc stuff folks usually attribute to it.

Really? I didn't know that. Which show was the first?

 

[Anwar]

Blakes' Seven. British Sci-Fi show back in 1979 (I think), it was pretty much the inspiration for Farscape.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

As they say, your mileage may vary, but the wikipedia article on the story arc offers other examples of story arcs in TV science fiction predating 1979, namely Doctor Who and The Incredible Hulk. See that article and related links for more information.

If you do not insist on a television serial, then Flash Gordon (1936) surely qualifies, having 13 episodes totaling 245 minutes, comprising one long story arc. There were also two more Flash Gordon serials and a Buck Rogers serial in the 1930's or early 1940's, all starring Buster Crabbe.