Rey in The Force Awakens (Possible Spoilers)

[Venardhi]

On second viewing I was able to read a bit more nuance from Ridley's performance. I still think her force-fueled swordfighting and the speed at which she mastered the mind trick is a bit much but it just doesn't bother me that much in the heat of the moment so I guess I can let it go.

 

[Makarov]

Your oversimplified comments summarily dismissed every flaw I've (and others) mentioned - including needing help to be rescued from Starkiller base (heck, Rey takes a moment to hug Finn and thank him for coming back for her), instead of actually discussing them.

But that's the problem with such gross generalizations - they only work if one blindly dismisses everything, otherwise, the exceptions ruin the generalization. So instead of an "all or nothing" generalization such as "perfection ... at every turn," or "Mary Sue," let's have comments that actually discuss those moments, such as her rescue from Starkiller base.

Hardly a rescue - she had already busted out and met up with them before they went looking for her. She could have just found a ship and got out of there herself.

Or, for another example, this is a rather reasonable discussion of Rey's flying (Why not try and respond directly to it, instead of summarily dismissing it?):

Most of her skills (especially the fighting) are explained and make sense considering her biography. She wasn't a farmer living in their uncle's basement like Luke was. Her "perfect" flying skills included scraping the ground with the Falcon quite a few times and it looked quite funny. It was a mix of skill and luck and I suppose the force helped her there.

Some of it can be explained but that doesn't make it any less of a perfect character who can do everything. If it was just the flying, that'd just be one thing, but it all adds up to the point where the most we know about her character is that she's awesome (luck, skill, the force) at everything. She even has to one up Han Solo by bypassing that compressor.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Your oversimplified comments summarily dismissed every flaw I've (and others) mentioned - including needing help to be rescued from Starkiller base (heck, Rey takes a moment to hug Finn and thank him for coming back for her), instead of actually discussing them.

But that's the problem with such gross generalizations - they only work if one blindly dismisses everything, otherwise, the exceptions ruin the generalization. So instead of an "all or nothing" generalization such as "perfection ... at every turn," or "Mary Sue," let's have comments that actually discuss those moments, such as her rescue from Starkiller base.

Hardly a rescue - she had already busted out and met up with them before they went looking for her. She could have just found a ship and got out of there herself.

But she didn't "get out of there" on her own. She was rescued. They were explicitly trying to find her, saw her, and went to her (remember, she was shocked to see them). Then she explicitly acknowledged the rescue. And that's the point. She didn't do everything on her own. Ignoring and summarily dismissing what actually happened in the film is a significant detriment to any comment, much less attempted analysis.

As for the flying, your comments once again "bypass the compressor" (er, facts), in order to fit them into a preconceived, erroneous, and quite frankly myopic generalization of the character.

Once more, I invite an analysis that actually acknowledges what transpires on-screen.

 

[Makarov]

I'm not the one ignoring what happened there. Her friends met up with her in an attempt to rescue her, which she already was successful in doing - and you're saying that's meant to be an example of a flaw? It's the opposite, another moment where she shines.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

^ Not if she explicitly acknowledges, in the film, that she needed the help.

 

[DarKush]

but still it was a lot of back and forth with him.

So he's conflicted and afraid and brave and makes both good and bad decisions? Just like a person.

Fair point. But it just felt way too all over the place.

 

[Makarov]

^ Not if she explicitly acknowledges, in the film, that she needed the help.

And we saw, in the film, that she didn't need the help. That's why they juxtapose them about to blow the door and rescue her with her coming to them on their own. So if you're still saying that's an example of her not being perfect just because she's happy to see them, it's a pretty weak example.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Yes, she'd escaped from the holding cell (which is what they were planning on trying to blast into), but she still needed help affecting an escape from the base (considering all of the ships were under strict surveillance, per Kylo Ren), which the character herself explicitly acknowledges. It's not simply that she's happy to see them. Chewie says it was Finn's idea to come back for her, and she thanks Finn for it by hugging him. It's not just a moment of reunion. She doesn't hug him (as in she's simply happy to see him) until she learns that they were there to help her - and she accepts that help. That's why the moment is so significant. Not sure why this moment is being ignored, though.

But it's a rather myopic and unfortunate analysis, to be sure.

 

[Trekker4747]

A lot to read, haven't read all of it. But my impressions, wonderment, is if she's just *that* attuned to The Force? Whether it's naturally when it was sparked awake in her or from some blocked training. (Luke's daughter theory.) But, the feeling I got was more that she just has a stronger grasp of it, for her it's literally as easy as using another sense. She may need some training to harness it and use it for "good" but it somehow comes naturally to her, hence her so easily grasping the "Mind Trick" and summoning the saber to her. (Also why the saber "called" to her.")

 

[DWF]

Your oversimplified comments summarily dismissed every flaw I've (and others) mentioned - including needing help to be rescued from Starkiller base (heck, Rey takes a moment to hug Finn and thank him for coming back for her), instead of actually discussing them.

But that's the problem with such gross generalizations - they only work if one blindly dismisses everything, otherwise, the exceptions ruin the generalization. So instead of an "all or nothing" generalization such as "perfection ... at every turn," or "Mary Sue," let's have comments that actually discuss those moments, such as her rescue from Starkiller base.

Hardly a rescue - she had already busted out and met up with them before they went looking for her. She could have just found a ship and got out of there herself.

But she didn't "get out of there" on her own. She was rescued. They were explicitly trying to find her, saw her, and went to her (remember, she was shocked to see them). Then she explicitly acknowledged the rescue. And that's the point. She didn't do everything on her own. Ignoring and summarily dismissing what actually happened in the film is a significant detriment to any comment, much less attempted analysis.

As for the flying, your comments once again "bypass the compressor" (er, facts), in order to fit them into a preconceived, erroneous, and quite frankly myopic generalization of the character.

Once more, I invite an analysis that actually acknowledges what transpires on-screen.

She nearly killed her rescuers before she relaized who they were. And personally I think she was relieved to see Finn, she had no idea she'd ever see him again. Their adventures on Jakku and Han's ship bonded together, just as the escape from the destroyed bonded Finn to Poe.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

All of which is true. But of course, she didn't actually embrace Finn until she learned why they were there (unlike Poe, who embraced Finn the moment he saw him, following the attack on Takodana). It's clearly an acknowledgement that she needed, and welcomed, his (and Han's and Chewie's) help.

 

[DWF]

All of which is true. But of course, she didn't actually embrace Finn until she learned why they were there (unlike Poe, who embraced Finn the moment he saw him, following the attack on Takodana). It's clearly an acknowledgement that she needed, and welcomed, his (and Han's and Chewie's) help.

Finn was there to rescue Rey, Han and Chewie were sort of conned by him into thinking he knew more than he did. And I do think Phamsa is going to extremely pissed at Rinn the next time she sees him.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

That was a hilarious scene - about the garbage chute and trash compactor. And you're right, a future showdown with Finn will be quite entertaining (especially given his amusingly overzealous "I'm in charge" outburst).

I was actually disappointed with how little screen time Phasma had ... hopefully her character (like Poe Dameron's) will have a larger role in the next films. Especially if it involves a clash with Finn.

 

[Trekker4747]

So.... some think Rey is a "Mary Sue" character because she's awesome with The Force with no apparent training. Either go with the idea that she is just uniquely attuned to it (high Thetan levels or whatever) or the "Long Kiss Goodnight" theory. She's much more capable than she (and most importantly WE) are aware right now. For whatever reason, maybe her own safety, her own past, abilities and capabilities are being hidden from us and her. Whether this means she's Luke's daughter and she's been kept hidden away for her own safety or she's just someone with particularly gifted, and developing, powers whose parents stashed her away for whatever reason remains to be seen.

We. Don't. Know. This is the first movie in a series of three and it seems rather silly to criticize it by saying Ren showed to much power with The Force so early when we do not know yet if there is a reason for that. There very well could be, one that'll be explained in the next, or a future, movie.

But just because here, in this case she seemed to be a "Mary Sue" (being very, very, relaxed with the definition of such a character) seems like an early judgement to make.

She wasn't "perfect." A Mary Sue character, by definition, must be perfect. Flawless. Able to do whatever they want and not have one. Single. Fault. Ren has faults. Just because she's able to fend off a injured, also inexperienced, man with a lightsaber doesn't make her a Mary Sue.

Just because she can pilot and fix ships doesn't mean she's a Mary Sue. (She's likely scavenged enough ships to know how they work and flown enough ships in-atmo to know how to fly them well.)

Just because she, seemingly, doesn't need to help to get by doesn't mean she's a Mary Sue. Because she does have flaws.

She's a bit head-strong, doesn't seem too willing to trust in others or even herself and has other character flaws when it comes to her as a person. She does make mistakes in the movie (like her plan to do whatever on Han's ship and instead releases the monsters. A Mary Sue character, by definition, doesn't make mistakes. Any mistakes. For whatever reason. They always do exactly what it is they want to do.)

It's way too damn early to judge her because of what she pulled off in this movie. She could have a "losing her hand"-type moment in the next movie, when Luke got head-strong to save his friends, battled Vader, and pretty much got his ass handed to him; Vader only holding back because Luke was his son and wanted to seduce him to the Dark Side.

Give it time, Ren's flaws and faults will come out and as we're dealing with a character arc stretched over three movies then the next one means she has to have some fall or failure to overcome in the third act of her story arc.

We're in the rising action for her, the point where it seems like she's climbing to the top of the world and nothing can hold her back. She'll crest and fall in the next movie.

Give it time, people, sheesh.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

All of which is true. But of course, she didn't actually embrace Finn until she learned why they were there (unlike Poe, who embraced Finn the moment he saw him, following the attack on Takodana). It's clearly an acknowledgement that she needed, and welcomed, his (and Han's and Chewie's) help.

Of course, Poe isn't unlike Ace Rimmer, I wouldn't be surprised if he asked someone to smoke him a kipper as he hopped into his X-Wing.

 

[Makarov]

Your asking people to hold off from forming an opinion for years. They can only go by what's been released so far, which is this story. Hopefully it will improve and then opinions will readjust, as they do with all trilogies when the story is complete.

Listing headstrong as a fault is like saying "perfectionist" or "I care too much" as your biggest weakness on a job interview, a nice flaw to make yourself look even better. Luke rushing off in a headstrong moment isn't a flaw unless it backfires for him (which it did in Empire). So far that hasn't happened to Rey so there isn't much of any fault to speak of in regards to her character.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I liked Rey and thought that Daisy Ridley put in a good performance. As for Rey's parentage, has anyone considered that (putting Prequel hatred aside), like Anakin, she was conceived through The Force itself?

 

[Greylock Crescent]

^ That'd be a very interesting development. It's not one that I would find personally satisfying, though. Absent any other information, the most plausible, satisfying revelation for Rey's character would be that she's Luke's daughter.

Your asking people to hold off from forming an opinion for years. They can only go by what's been released so far, which is this story. Hopefully it will improve and then opinions will readjust, as they do with all trilogies when the story is complete.

Listing headstrong as a fault is like saying "perfectionist" or "I care too much" as your biggest weakness on a job interview, a nice flaw to make yourself look even better. Luke rushing off to in a headstrong moment isn't a flaw unless it backfires for him (which it did in that story). So far that hasn't happened to Rey so there isn't much of any fault to speak of in regards to her character.

Yes, one is asking for an analysis to have the patience to consider not only the current events on screen, but also future developments of the character. And yet, here's a comment that still ignores the on-screen facts (that there are flaws, that the character isn't "perfection ... at every turn"), while dismissing any possible current and/or future explanation for what we do see.

Good luck with that.

 

[Gryffindorian]

I don't know if this has been addressed, but did Maz Kanata implicitly indicate Rey's parentage when she presented her with Luke's lightsaber? She said something along the lines of, "It calls to you. First, it was Vader's, then Luke's; now it's yours."

 

[Xerxes82]

I don't know if this has been addressed, but did Maz Kanata implicitly indicate Rey's parentage when she presented her with Luke's lightsaber? She said something along the lines of, "It calls to you. First, it was Vader's, then Luke's; now it's yours."

Not only that, but when Kylo is mind probing her, he says she dreams of an ocean, and an island. Which is exactly where she finds Luke at the end. The movie certainly WANTS you to draw certain conclusions.