Rey and the sad devolution of the female character

[Jayson1]

The struggle I am running up against is the fact that Luke and Anakin are actually very similar to Rey in many respects, with Rey actually going through more than Luke in her early life. So, the acceptance of Luke and the rejection of Rey is quite strange to me.

It's easy for me though to see why people might like one and not the other. Better writing or they think one actor is better than another. One comes with years of nostiga. Possible sexism with some people. Many different reasons. To me it's like asking why someone might like Spock better than Tuvok. Being similar doesn't mean being equal.

Jason

 

[LJones41]

I can relate to the Luke thing. That's why the PT stood out as so odd to me. It never felt like a part of Luke's story. Just random bits of information not necessary for the story.

Why would anyone assume that the PT would be about Luke, when he wasn't alive during this period? If part of the PT was about Luke, I would have found that odd.

The struggle I am running up against is the fact that Luke and Anakin are actually very similar to Rey in many respects, with Rey actually going through more than Luke in her early life. So, the acceptance of Luke and the rejection of Rey is quite strange to me.

I already have a long-running problem with Luke's Force training between "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi". The fact that there was never any indication of Force training for Rey and that we're supposed to believe that she had acquired knowledge of Force skills from Kylo Ren's attempt to penetrate her mind and her more successful attempt on his mind simply makes me want to throw up my arms in sheer disgust. I mean, for Pete's sake, audiences were shown the future Wonder Woman being trained. Why did Lucasfilm have to be so lazy when it came to Rey's skills with the Force?

 

[fireproof78]

It's easy for me though to see why people might like one and not the other. Better writing or they think one actor is better than another. One comes with years of nostiga. Possible sexism with some people. Many different reasons. To me it's like asking why someone might like Spock better than Tuvok. Being similar doesn't mean being equal.

Jason

Which is why I am so inclined to continue discussing it. Rather than just accepting whatever notions we have regarding a character or allow nostalgia to shade my view.

Also, as much as I like Tuvok and Spock, the two are only similar in that they are Vulcans. Luke and Rey have a little more in common

Why would anyone assume that the PT would be a part of Luke's story, when he wasn't alive during this period?

Simple. It was how it was marketed to me as a teen, it was how I regarded the OT as Luke's story, not Anakin's as Lucas spun it later. It is also a common trope in fiction to use the story of the father to shed light on to the son. I don't feel like the PT did much in the way of that, but that was not Lucas' aim so I cannot fault that.

I am merely speaking about my perceptions when I first saw the PT. As I have gotten older, that has changed, but I struggle with reconciling the Star Wars saga as the story of Darth Vader. Many will disagree and that's fine. Just a different point of view.

 

[Jayson1]

Which is why I am so inclined to continue discussing it. Rather than just accepting whatever notions we have regarding a character or allow nostalgia to shade my view.

Also, as much as I like Tuvok and Spock, the two are only similar in that they are Vulcans. Luke and Rey have a little more in common

I don't know. Both Spock and Tuvok are close friends with the Captain. Both have family issues with their parents. Both half to deal with someone poking at them such as McCoy and Neelix. Both have pointed ears.

Jason

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know. Both Spock and Tuvok are close friends with the Captain. Both have family issues with their parents. Both half to deal with someone poking at them such as McCoy and Neelix. Both have pointed ears.

Jason

One is a family man and dedicated to that fact. The other is prone to combow diplomacy and largely willing to operate independently. The differences are in the details, beyond the pointed ears

 

[LJones41]

Simple. It was how it was marketed to me as a teen, it was how I regarded the OT as Luke's story, not Anakin's as Lucas spun it later.

I still regard the OT as mainly Luke's story. But I immediately knew that the PT would be about Anakin. However, I saw that Anakin played a major role in Luke's story in the OT. And I also saw how Luke came to be . . . in Anakin's story in the PT. It's a family story, even if the two trilogies had focused on different generations. My real problem is the ST, considering that we're expected to believe that the two leading characters are not members of the Skywalker family. And as far as I'm concerned, Rey and Finn are that trilogy's two main characters.

 

[fireproof78]

I still regard the OT as mainly Luke's story. But I immediately knew that the PT would be about Anakin. However, I saw that Anakin played a major role in Luke's story in the OT. And I also saw how Luke came to be . . . in Anakin's story in the PT. It's a family story, even if the two trilogies had focused on different generations. My real problem is the ST, considering that we're expected to believe that the two leading characters are not members of the Skywalker family. And as far as I'm concerned, Rey and Finn are that trilogy's two main characters.

Family by blood vs. family by choice.

As I said, my perception of the PT changed from initial marketing to now. Glad some knew it immediately. i apparently was not so clever.

 

[LJones41]

Family by blood vs. family by choice.

I don't understand this comment. If this is about Rey and Finn forming some kind of "family" with Poe and other characters, then why is the ST is supposed to be regarded as part of the Skywalker family saga?

 

[fireproof78]

I don't understand this comment. If this is about Rey and Finn forming some kind of "family" with Poe and other characters, then why is the ST is supposed to be regarded as part of the Skywalker family saga?

There is the family you are related to and the family you chose to include. One thing we see all of the Skywalkers do with Rey, in particular, is chose to include her in their family, either Han (Skywalker by marriage) wanting her on his crew, Luke willing to train her at least a little, or Leia's connection with her at the end of TFA.

Let's not be so black and white in the "Skywalker Family Saga" bit, when family can have multiple meanings to people, and Rey's journey is finding her place, finding her new family to replace those who are "not coming back."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Which is why I am so inclined to continue discussing it. Rather than just accepting whatever notions we have regarding a character or allow nostalgia to shade my view.

Also, as much as I like Tuvok and Spock, the two are only similar in that they are Vulcans. Luke and Rey have a little more in common

Simple. It was how it was marketed to me as a teen, it was how I regarded the OT as Luke's story, not Anakin's as Lucas spun it later. It is also a common trope in fiction to use the story of the father to shed light on to the son. I don't feel like the PT did much in the way of that, but that was not Lucas' aim so I cannot fault that.

I am merely speaking about my perceptions when I first saw the PT. As I have gotten older, that has changed, but I struggle with reconciling the Star Wars saga as the story of Darth Vader. Many will disagree and that's fine. Just a different point of view.

I think thematically, the question as to who the main character in SW is underwent a kind of crisis in Return of the Jedi. SW77 and TESB clearly had Luke as the main character. Luke was still the main character of ROTJ, but the resolution of the tensions in the whole original trilogy revolved around what Vader did. Luke as main character was in a sense upstaged by Anakin's return back to the good side.

In fact, it's worth pointing out that there are two ways to read the title "Return of the Jedi." On the one hand, Jedi can be plural, meaning that Luke has brought the Jedi back to life and will usher in a new age of Jedi in the wake of the fall of the Empire. On the other hand, Jedi can be singular, meaning that a particular Jedi has returned. Which Jedi? Why, Anakin of course.

But this sort of evolving narrative is evidently what happens when you start with a one-off representative "sample" of something, the rest of which is only sketched out at best, and then it takes off and you're given the opportunity to commit to actually making the whole thing by filling in the blanks and growing off of what you've already got in the can. SW77 is kind of like a TV pilot in that respect. Not as different from the rest of the saga as "The Cage" is from "The Corbomite Maneuver," but maybe in certain ways as different as "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is from "Corbomite."

 

[Trekkin]

then why is the ST is supposed to be regarded as part of the Skywalker family saga?

It’s called the Star Wars Saga. So long as it’s still a saga about Wars in the stars, then it’s what it’s ‘meant’ to be.

(One-way-or-the-other, the movies are always going to be ‘what they’re meant to be.’ It’s a property that’s constantly under development. Not some muse sprung fully-formed and perfect from the forehead of Zeus himself.)

And before anyone gets clever, it can be a saga even without the original family members being alive. Generational sagas are the most common, but that’s just because:

(a) Histories of a nation were usually traced by its rulers and powers. Those people tended to be fairly interconnected. And as sagas were basically legends about the nations history...
(b) In fiction, a bloodline is pretty a convenient way to link seperate events into a single narrative.​

 

[Jayson1]

You know we kind of lost track of the topic. Whether she sucks or is great is she so important a character that she ruins all female characters elsewhere if one does think she sucks as a character? Seems like a stretch to me. I mean Anakin from the prequels didn't ruin all male characters.


Jason

 

[USS Firefly]

You know we kind of lost track of the topic. Whether she sucks or is great is she so important a character that she ruins all female characters elsewhere if one does think she sucks as a character? Seems like a stretch to me. I mean Anakin from the prequels didn't ruin all male characters.


Jason

You are right.

I don't like the character of Rey but I think she is a very long shot of devolution for female characters.
Otherwise most male characters would be screwed

 

[fireproof78]

You know we kind of lost track of the topic. Whether she sucks or is great is she so important a character that she ruins all female characters elsewhere if one does think she sucks as a character? Seems like a stretch to me. I mean Anakin from the prequels didn't ruin all male characters.


Jason

Not by a long shot. Even the much reviled Ghostbusters film didn't get that accusation around female characters.

 

[fireproof78]

I already have a long-running problem with Luke's Force training between "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi". The fact that there was never any indication of Force training for Rey and that we're supposed to believe that she had acquired knowledge of Force skills from Kylo Ren's attempt to penetrate her mind and her more successful attempt on his mind simply makes me want to throw up my arms in sheer disgust. I mean, for Pete's sake, audiences were shown the future Wonder Woman being trained. Why did Lucasfilm have to be so lazy when it came to Rey's skills with the Force?

I don't believe that Rey just acquired skills from that mind probe. I think that Rey's natural skills were already enhanced by the Force and she could do what Luke had struggled with "let go of her conscience self and act on instinct." Rey had a life time of instincts and being extremely Force sensitive.

 

[publiusr]

I don't think anyone will touch Carrie's toughness on screen. Like young Luke, Rey is going to have to suffer.

 

[DarKush]

My thoughts on whose story the first six Star Wars films were:

Growing up, watching the original trilogy, when it was just three films, and ancillary material, before the concept of the "Chosen One" I largely saw it as Luke's story. I never quite jibed with Lucas's assertion during the prequels that the six films were about Anakin's journey. Luke fit the idea of the "Chosen One" (I'm not a fan of that idea, in Star Wars, or most fiction, it just feels trite) more than Vader (I loved the conversation in ROTS among the Jedi about misreading the Chosen One prophecy). Granted, I can see how it can also apply to Anakin, though it also still can apply to Luke. I liked how Rebels put out there that Luke could actually be the Chosen One still, or rather that's what Obi-Wan believes, and Maul seemed to accept.

I do see the prequels being Anakin's story, where the originals are Luke's story, and the sequel's are Rey's story. I find it hard, but not impossible, to accept the first six films all as Vader's story. Heck, Vader doesn't have any character growth until ROTJ, where we see more character growth/development with Luke throughout the original trilogy. In comparison, we do see more character growth with Anakin in all three prequel films (not saying it was always well-written or directed, but it was there). With Rey, character development is not well handled in either film IMO, but it's arguably there in TLJ as well.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

After seeing everything so far, I wish Leia was the chosen one.

 

[arch101]

It’s still not too late for Asoka to be Yoda’s “there is another”.

 

[Tuskin38]

It’s still not too late for Asoka to be Yoda’s “there is another”.

Yes it is.