Rewatching Voyager

[tomalak301]

Also, I think that a family where a child dies is more realistic than a family in which everybody keeps smiling for apparently no reason.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Yeah there might be family tragedy, but there has to be a middle ground. I think my issue was Torres made it a big deal about how unrealistic the positive family was, but when we see the negative family, I think it's equally unrealistic. You can have issues in a family, (I do almost every day) but there is still love there. Other than the scene with the Doctor and Belle, which amounted to a goodbye scene, there wasn't really a love factor there.

Take Tom, e.g. You'd think of him as the emotionally immature womanizer (remember he says at the beginning of the show he has five girlfriends at home?) who is not capable of deeper emotions. Then you watch the series and you realize how much he changes in this (and other) respect(s). One of the stations on his way of personal development is this episode. It's him, the guy who's never thought of himself as a family guy who makes the Doctor understand what a family is really for:
"Well, think about what's happened to us here on Voyager. Everyone left people behind, and everyone suffered a loss, but look how it's brought us all closer together. We found support here, and friendship, and we've become a family in part because of the pain we shared. If you turn your back on this programme you'll always be stuck at this point. You'll never have the chance to say goodbye to your daughter, or to be there for your wife and son when they need you, and you'll be cheating yourself of the chance to have their love and support. In the long run you'll miss the whole point of what it means to have a family."

I love this scene. Janeway says something similar at the end of Year of Hell, but to hear it come from Paris was quite something considering how he was treated in Caretaker. He's come a long way in 3 years.

 

[borgboy]

I find the Doctor's attitudes towards other holograms strange at time. He seems to never see his family again, and we aren't supposed to care because they're only holograms, which undercuts so much of the holograms rights issues.
I am a big fan of Kes's long hair.
Kes is my favorite, and Before and After is one of my favorite episodes. It is a shame Kes didn't get to be in Year of Hell (another favorite episode). Harry marrying Kes's daughter when she'd have grown up seeing him as part of the family on a daily basis is just gross and creepy. I've always been sad that Kes never got to have her daughter and grandson. You'd think after giving birth to her baby and having memories of her that would be a terrible loss.

 

[tomalak301]

Distant Origin

I've always liked this episode, but the Magestrate felt really one dimensional. She wouldn't even consider what Cakotay said about how the Voth had to adopt the doctrine to what the era they were in. It's actually what made this episode just decent and not really putting it over the edge. I love these hard science episodes, and I loved that this episode kind of retraced Voyager's journey from the Basics planet to the space station and those aliens in Macrosm and it was interesting to see the idea that the Dinosuars did survive and travel into space. This almost kind of played a little like our political system these days though, making it really timely. People won't listen to the other side and are dead sit in their opinions and arguments. They feel they are right and anyone who challenges them are shut down.

Displaced

This episode was just ok. I wish they had played up the mystery of the crew getting replaced more, and the Neryans were kind of assholes. Also, at the end you have Tom and Torres over power two Neryans and they didn't pick up the phasers so they replace one non working one with two fully powerful ones? That didn't make sense. Still, I did like the Chakotay going around the Voyager stuff, so that was nice.

 

[Archimago]

I find the Doctor's attitudes towards other holograms strange at time. He seems to never see his family again, and we aren't supposed to care because they're only holograms, which undercuts so much of the holograms rights issues.
I am a big fan of Kes's long hair.
Kes is my favorite, and Before and After is one of my favorite episodes. It is a shame Kes didn't get to be in Year of Hell (another favorite episode). Harry marrying Kes's daughter when she'd have grown up seeing him as part of the family on a daily basis is just gross and creepy. I've always been sad that Kes never got to have her daughter and grandson. You'd think after giving birth to her baby and having memories of her that would be a terrible loss.

If you read the books you may not be so sad about Kes not having a son!

 

[Archimago]

Distant Origin

I've always liked this episode, but the Magestrate felt really one dimensional. She wouldn't even consider what Cakotay said about how the Voth had to adopt the doctrine to what the era they were in. It's actually what made this episode just decent and not really putting it over the edge. I love these hard science episodes, and I loved that this episode kind of retraced Voyager's journey from the Basics planet to the space station and those aliens in Macrosm and it was interesting to see the idea that the Dinosuars did survive and travel into space. This almost kind of played a little like our political system these days though, making it really timely. People won't listen to the other side and are dead sit in their opinions and arguments. They feel they are right and anyone who challenges them are shut down.

Displaced

This episode was just ok. I wish they had played up the mystery of the crew getting replaced more, and the Neryans were kind of assholes. Also, at the end you have Tom and Torres over power two Neryans and they didn't pick up the phasers so they replace one non working one with two fully powerful ones? That didn't make sense. Still, I did like the Chakotay going around the Voyager stuff, so that was nice.

I remember displaced well I found the parts interesting where Chakotay was sabotaging the ship, and then the other parts were a little sub par to that I feel. But I did like the Tores Tom scene I'm the cave.

You know what was distant origin even about? I cannot remember for the life of me.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

Distant Origin

I've always liked this episode, but the Magestrate felt really one dimensional. She wouldn't even consider what Cakotay said about how the Voth had to adopt the doctrine to what the era they were in. It's actually what made this episode just decent and not really putting it over the edge. I love these hard science episodes, and I loved that this episode kind of retraced Voyager's journey from the Basics planet to the space station and those aliens in Macrosm and it was interesting to see the idea that the Dinosuars did survive and travel into space. This almost kind of played a little like our political system these days though, making it really timely. People won't listen to the other side and are dead sit in their opinions and arguments. They feel they are right and anyone who challenges them are shut down.

Just like in previous (and later) episodes, there's usually a longer monologue by one of the main characters that makes me fall in love with the episode. It's normally Janeway who does this but here we have Chakotay's memorable lines:
"I see something very different, Minister. An ancient race of Saurians, probably the first intelligent life on Earth, surrounded by some of the most terrifying creatures that ever lived, and yet they thrived, developed language and culture and technology. And when the planet was threatened with disaster, they boldly launched themselves into space, crossed what must have seemed like unimaginable distances, facing the unknown every day. But somehow they stayed together, kept going, with the same courage that had served them before, until they reached this quadrant, where they laid the foundation of what has become the great Voth culture. Deny that past and you deny the struggle and achievements of your ancestors. Deny your origins on Earth, and you deny your true heritage."

You know what was distant origin even about? I cannot remember for the life of me.

When I say "dinosaurs in space", does it ring a bell? The Voth whose ships looked like they were even more powerful than the borg?

Displaced

This episode was just ok. I wish they had played up the mystery of the crew getting replaced more, and the Neryans were kind of assholes. Also, at the end you have Tom and Torres over power two Neryans and they didn't pick up the phasers so they replace one non working one with two fully powerful ones? That didn't make sense. Still, I did like the Chakotay going around the Voyager stuff, so that was nice.

This episode is the most memorable for me for Tom's blue eyes ...
The Tom-B'Elanna relationship is a very dynamic one - probably the most dynamic one I've ever seen in a TV show - and I felt the whole episode served the purpose of facilitating that dynamics. From the very first scene to the last one, they are the real protagonists of the episode - the Nyrians are secondary characters only. Which always makes me think about the title of the ep: who is really displaced here? Is it the crew of Voyager/the Nyrians - or does the title rather refer to Tom and B'Elanna who are not yet in the right place (floating in space!!! ) at the right time (DAY OF HONOR) to admit their love for each other?
In any case, they do take their first steps:
TORRES: Nice day.
PARIS: Beautiful.
TORRES: Things were pretty chilly there for a while.
PARIS: I guess they were.
TORRES: Feels good to be warm again.
PARIS: Yeah, it sure does.
Is this dialogue to be taken in the literary sense of the word? Or are those words perhaps used in a figurative sense? Season 4 will show.

If you read the books you may not be so sad about Kes not having a son!

Which one do you mean? THE ETERNAL TIDE?

 

[stardream]

There is one scene in Displaced that always makes me laugh. I think it takes place in the briefing room. Torres, Paris, The Captain and Chakotay are discussing the Nyrians. I don't know if they were directed to do this or if was something that Dawson and McNeil came up with but watch their body language. Remember they had had a fight earlier that day and they are reacting like school children. Paris looks away when Torres comes over the monitor and crosses his arms...she says something and does the same. It's almost a defensive position because they had 'words' earlier in the day. You can see a hint of confusion for just a few seconds in Janway's eyes as she watches them. Extremely subtle but very well done and to me...funny.

 

[tomalak301]

There is one scene in Distant Origin that always makes me laugh. I think it takes place in the briefing room. Torres, Paris, The Captain and Chakotay are discussing the Nyrians. I don't know if they were directed to do this or if was something that Dawson and McNeil came up with but watch their body language. Remember they had had a fight earlier that day and they are reacting like school children. Paris looks away when Torres comes over the monitor and crosses his arms...she says something and does the same. It's almost a defensive position because they had 'words' earlier in the day. You can see a hint of confusion for just a few seconds in Janway's eyes as she watches them. Extremely subtle but very well done and to me...funny.

That was Displaced.

 

[stardream]

That was Displaced.

Thanks. Edited.

 

[Archimago]

Just like in previous (and later) episodes, there's usually a longer monologue by one of the main characters that makes me fall in love with the episode. It's normally Janeway who does this but here we have Chakotay's memorable lines:
"I see something very different, Minister. An ancient race of Saurians, probably the first intelligent life on Earth, surrounded by some of the most terrifying creatures that ever lived, and yet they thrived, developed language and culture and technology. And when the planet was threatened with disaster, they boldly launched themselves into space, crossed what must have seemed like unimaginable distances, facing the unknown every day. But somehow they stayed together, kept going, with the same courage that had served them before, until they reached this quadrant, where they laid the foundation of what has become the great Voth culture. Deny that past and you deny the struggle and achievements of your ancestors. Deny your origins on Earth, and you deny your true heritage."


When I say "dinosaurs in space", does it ring a bell? The Voth whose ships looked like they were even more powerful than the borg?


This episode is the most memorable for me for Tom's blue eyes ...
The Tom-B'Elanna relationship is a very dynamic one - probably the most dynamic one I've ever seen in a TV show - and I felt the whole episode served the purpose of facilitating that dynamics. From the very first scene to the last one, they are the real protagonists of the episode - the Nyrians are secondary characters only. Which always makes me think about the title of the ep: who is really displaced here? Is it the crew of Voyager/the Nyrians - or does the title rather refer to Tom and B'Elanna who are not yet in the right place (floating in space!!! ) at the right time (DAY OF HONOR) to admit their love for each other?
In any case, they do take their first steps:
TORRES: Nice day.
PARIS: Beautiful.
TORRES: Things were pretty chilly there for a while.
PARIS: I guess they were.
TORRES: Feels good to be warm again.
PARIS: Yeah, it sure does.
Is this dialogue to be taken in the literary sense of the word? Or are those words perhaps used in a figurative sense? Season 4 will show.


Which one do you mean? THE ETERNAL TIDE?

The more you mention the Voth I remember that name but not much else about it haha xD

And yes I just finished eternal tide what a book I am just starting protectors now. You know when is Tuvok gonna come in? It saddens me to see he is the only main cast member not aboard

 

[borgboy]

Which one do you mean? THE ETERNAL TIDE?

I suggest you read the String Theory trilogy for more information on Kes's life before and after Fury. It's a pretty satisfying resolution to the mess Voyager made of Kes in Fury, as well as a damn good read.

 

[borgboy]

The more you mention the Voth I remember that name but not much else about it haha xD

And yes I just finished eternal tide what a book I am just starting protectors now. You know when is Tuvok gonna come in? It saddens me to see he is the only main cast member not aboard

I'm behind on my reading new Trek, but post Voyager Tuvok and his wife have been in the Riker-led Titan series.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

I'm behind on my reading new Trek, but post Voyager Tuvok and his wife have been in the Riker-led Titan series.

The more you mention the Voth I remember that name but not much else about it haha xD

And yes I just finished eternal tide what a book I am just starting protectors now. You know when is Tuvok gonna come in? It saddens me to see he is the only main cast member not aboard

Just like borgboy says, Tuvok has become Riker's First Officer now on the USS Titan. I'm not following that series (TNG basically bores me) but as far as I know Titan roams in the Beta Quadrant so it's highly unlikely that Tuvok will join the crew in the DQ.
I'm a bit slow with reading Voyager because there are so many other books to read. At the moment I'm still reading the book and Plato and Aristotle + there's a Star Wars book I'm reading. But I'll return to PROTECTORS one day, it's eyeing me from my bedside table already so eventually it'll force me to read it ...

I suggest you read the String Theory trilogy for more information on Kes's life before and after Fury. It's a pretty satisfying resolution to the mess Voyager made of Kes in Fury, as well as a damn good read.

I know, I know ... Like I've just said there are other reading projects lined up ... In addition, most of my free time is taken up by making these VOY wallpapers and it's a pretty time-consuming activity ... But thanks, anyway.

 

[tomalak301]

Worst Case Scenario

This episode is really cleaver. It uses the holodeck malfunctioning troupe in a new way and it brings back one of the series most memorable characters in Seska. I loved how this exercise became a thing and this is actually a series I would love to see. This is like an alternate voyager had the crew taken Seska's idea and dropped the Starfleet regulations. I loved how it was she who got the best of Tuvok and how Janeway ended up getting the best of Seska. Like I said it was a very unique and cleaver idea to an old troupe.

 

[Archimago]

Worst Case Scenario

This episode is really cleaver. It uses the holodeck malfunctioning troupe in a new way and it brings back one of the series most memorable characters in Seska. I loved how this exercise became a thing and this is actually a series I would love to see. This is like an alternate voyager had the crew taken Seska's idea and dropped the Starfleet regulations. I loved how it was she who got the best of Tuvok and how Janeway ended up getting the best of Seska. Like I said it was a very unique and cleaver idea to an old troupe.

Absolutely love worst case scenario! One of my favorite season 3 episodes. Excellent use of the holodeck and I have to say was not expecting Tuvok to be the author he really has a talent for holonovels! I was sad he didn't finish it ; ( but the bringing seska back idea was great!

And that's sad about Tuvok I mean the whole team is almost back together I abviously don't want to give a spoilers for anyone that hasn't read them!

 

[stardream]

Worst Case Scenario is probably my favorite 'Tom Paris' episode even though it's not really a Tom Paris episode but he's there through almost the whole thing (except for the first scene) and is the 'thread character' that runs through it. I really enjoy watching him and Tuvok together, much more so than Tuvok and Neelix (although they are an ok comedy duo, I just prefer the Paris/Tuvok scenes).

I'm not much into the Titan books either. I enjoyed what Riker and his crew did in the Destiny novels and read their story during the Typhon Pact series (Sorry, can't remember the name of the book but thought it was boring). I will say for those of you still reading the re-launch that you will see Tuvok again but that is all I'm going to say about that.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

It's nice to see that everyone "absolutely" loves WORST CASE SCENARIO. What a consensus! Which is all the more rare because most people tend to hate holodeck episodes - though I've never been able to figure out why. I actually like them quite a lot - I bet people who like to bash VOY (or other shows) for all the holodeck episodes are exactly the same people who would jump at the opportunity to have one installed in their own home.
I think the best one liner from this episode is Tom's (who else's? LOL! ) "I guess we should have known Seska wouldn't let a little thing like death stop her from getting even." Spot-on, Tommyboy! And just like stardream mentioned, pairing Tom up with Tuvok is always a very good sign of a lot of humour coming up soon. Seska added drama, Tom and Tuvok added humour, Janeway was flawless (as usual ) when she made the decision not to let Tuvok delete the programme and even Chakotay was funny (real-life Chakotay, not holo-Chakotay). Plus this was about the Maquis-Starfleet conflict in addition to being an ensemble episode , which are usually highly fascinating and more interesting to watch than eps that focus on a single character.
All in all, a great "ending" to the old type of Voyager before the "Seven of Nine and the borg show " makes its debut.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

And here's a foretaste of what's comig up ... I can't wait to read tomalak's review on my favourite VOY episode:

 

[tomalak301]

Scorpion

Well, here we are. The Season 3 finale and the Season 4 premiere to Voyager. The episode that gave us Species 8472, really reintroduced the borg, and made an alien race more scary than the Borg.

I've mentioned this before in this thread, but I think overall, Scorpion is my favorite episode of Voyager, with part 1 just beating out Part 2, but both being at the top. People always talk about Best of Both Worlds being Trek's biggest cliffhanger and having that OMG moment at the end with Riker telling Mr. Worf to Fire on Picard. Well, the problem I've always had with that episode is when I rewatch it, it's still a damn great finale, but it's a little overrated and the reason for that is we know Picard is going to survive. Now I watch that episode for the Riker moments, the music, and because it is such a big show, but the Cliffhanger has lost something over the years.

I compare that episode with Scorpion because I think I find Scorpion much more rewatchable. I mean take a look at part 1 first of all. If there was ever a reason for Voyager on blu ray, Scorpion I is it. This was just as CGI was starting to gain prominence, and what we got in this episode is still mind blowing today. We get 15 borg ships flying almost through Voyager, we get a truely alien race in 8472, and a scary one at that, we get the bioships which look so cool, and then the cliffhanger is the ultimate oh my god moment: Janeway has made an allience with the Borg and the Bioships combined their resources and destroyed an entire planet, in one of the best looking Visual Effect shots the Franchise has ever seen. I was too young to remember Best of Both Worlds, but I remember the Scorpion two parter, and I was counting down the days to Part 2. I remember that Wednesday night of the Season premiere and couldn't wait, and when it started I was instantly glued to the set.

Part 2 is a little bit below part 1, but it still has some awesome moments. For one, I loved the look of fluidic space. You had this blurry shot and the bioships flying through it was some nicely done work. I would love to know how this did this episode, with CGI in it's infancy still. That space looked really convincing. We also got a nice shot of the borg being sucked out of the ship, which was a precurser to Enterprise I think.

These episodes also provided some great character moments. I made a mention about the "Road to Scorpion" because these episodes had many callbacks to before. We had that scene with Janeway and Chakotay in the ready room, somewhat calling back to any other Janeway and Chakotay moment (Namely resolutions). We had Chakotay being linked to 7 of 9, calling back to Unity. And then there was Kes, who's telepathic powers have really grown and escalated with Species 8472's arrival. Her communication with them was eerie and really spoke to how scary 8472 were. Everytime I see these episodes though, I really wonder about Janeway's decision to make the alliance and if it was the right one. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but 8472 did attack first when they almost killed Harry. Also, how was Voyager to know first hand that the Borg had started the War. Maybe this was a Prime Directive issue, but what should they have done, added 6 months to the journey? Also, when they tried to communicate with 8472, they said they wanted the weak to parish. It seemed like In the Flesh and Hope and Fear kind of retconned these great aliens, which is a bit of a shame. Would have loved to spend more time with them.

We also had the music of Scorpion and I have to ask, why isn't there a soundtrack to this episode yet. I really hope to see LaLa Land records at Star Trek Las Vegas and maybe buy the Voyager score that should be coming out because the music really made these two episodes movie quality. Heck, I wouldn't mind if these two episodes were stitched together a la Best of Both Worlds on Blu Ray and made a 90 minute movie. I love the main theme (What you hear on the Season 4 DVD sets), and just the action music was some of the best music of the McCarthy/Chattaway/Berman era. It's a shame Voyager got treated badly in terms of the music because there really should be a soundtrack to Scorpion out already.

I know I'm rambling and this is probably the longest review I've given, but I do think this is Trek at it's very best. We have action, great visual effects, great character moments, the introduction to 7 of 9, (Who I will talk more about after I see The Gift), and just two really great episodes. This might have been Voyager at it's very best and yes, I do think these two episodes on the whole are better than Best of Both Worlds.

 

[Archimago]

I would predict a positively joyful response from Mr Paris incoming very soon haha

I can't really further what you've said it's a great epsiode not the top for me but that's all personal preference. I think deadlock Is my all time favorite. The things I love most about this epsiode are the unusual allience that i think only Janeway could form.. and species 8472! I absolutely adore there later epsiodes.

God comments on the CGI there as well I really think Voyager pushed at the very limit of the CGI at the time and especially in epsiodes like this really showed it off.