Rewatching TOS After SNW

[Christopher]

Read about the differences here:
https://mainstitute.org/blog/betrothal-versus-engagement

Okay, that's using a particular religious definition of the word, so it's not an objective source. The dictionary and Wikipedia say that betrothal is synonymous with engagement, or at best a subset, a type of engagement negotiated between families with or without the consent of the betrothed parties. So not all engagements are betrothals, strictly speaking, but all betrothals are engagements. So the distinction doesn't work here; if Spock was betrothed, then he was engaged.

The whole premise of the Galileo Seven episode being Spock's first command has been totally subverted by the S2 opener, where Spock is left in command of the ship, steals it out of spacedock, and averts a war with the Klingon Empire.

Just as "Memento Mori" contradicted Spock's line in "Dagger of the Mind" that he'd never mind-melded with a human. These kinds of adjustments are inevitable in a prequel, and they're no worse than the internal contradictions within TOS itself. Really, neither the "first meld" thing nor the "first command" thing makes sense in light of "The Menagerie" establishing that Spock had served with a human crew on the Enterprise for 13 years before TOS. They're just early-installment weirdness like "Vulcanian" and UESPA.

The opening teaser of TOS S1 The Corbomite Maneuver also shows Spock in Command of the 1701 while Kirk is in Sickbay for his quarterly physical check (and McCoy is making damn sure he's not interrupted too.) Spock gives orders to BOTH Bailey and Sulu and at the end of the teaser has even ordered a Red Alert.

That's not a good example, since having the conn while the captain is off-duty or indisposed is a different thing from being the sole commanding officer of a ship or mission. It's not really "a command," it's just being a proxy for the actual commander.

One could also argue that taking command by necessity when your superior officers are captured is distinct from being formally assigned command, but that may be too nitpicky even for me.

 

[Mudd]

The whole premise of the Galileo Seven episode being Spock's first command has been totally subverted by the S2 opener, where Spock is left in command of the ship, steals it out of spacedock, and averts a war with the Klingon Empire.

Which is great, since the original premise never made a lick of sense.

Again, a little AI editing of a single line of TOS dialogue fixes the problem.

"So, Spock, I don't guess you thought you'd ever have another command after that whole Klingon thing..."

 

[Nerys Myk]

Did somebody mention the different context now of Spock's consciousness sharing space with Christine inside her skull during "Return To Tomorrow?"

I have.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

The whole premise of the Galileo Seven episode being Spock's first command has been totally subverted by the S2 opener, where Spock is left in command of the ship, steals it out of spacedock, and averts a war with the Klingon Empire.

There's a (semantic) difference between being sent on a mission you command, vs being asked to mind the ship in the captain's absence.

It's like being cast for a role in a play (first command of a mission) vs being a member of the theater company and being assigned as the star's understudy, to fill in when needed (you have the conn).

if Spock was betrothed, then he was engaged.

I guess Spock likes to make full use of linguistic loopholes - saying, "no, as I define the word,I have not been", or "no, after the fact, I don't consider what we had to qualify, even if it technically does." Vulcans do lie, but perhaps it's a game for Spock to see how close to a lie he can come without actually lying, technically.

 

[Ssosmcin]

But the Shuttle WASN'T his first command.

So yeah, the error is IN TOS S1 The Galileo Seven in that many there CLAIM it's Spock's 'first command' when in fact, no, it wasn't.

Sure it was. It was his first assigned command of a mission on the series. That part is key and at that point, that's all that mattered. Same with the first time Spock did a mind-meld type thing with a human. It was the first time...in the series.

Nobody expected anyone to be watching the show or remembering these lines by 1970, forget 2023. It's not an error, it's just TV writing for a series expected to come and go. We're all pretty aware that continuity inconsistencies were not only common on Star Trek they were common on every series. And many were much worse. The only way SNW could avoid them would be if

1) they treated like a fan film series - and to that I say no thanks.
2) they focused on characters created for this series and only used legacy characters from The Cage. But even then, Spock would have to grow or behamstrung by a few lines of 50 year old dialog. But they chose not to go that way, so eh, roll with it.

 

[fireproof78]

I guess Spock likes to make full use of linguistic loopholes - saying, "no, as I define the word,I have not been", or "no, after the fact, I don't consider what we had to qualify, even if it technically does." Vulcans do lie, but perhaps it's a game for Spock to see how close to a lie he can come without actually lying, technically.

Spock is a Vulcan: he embraces technicality.

As he says in Amok Time: " Less than a marriage but more than a betrothal."

 

[Turtletrekker]

Why does everyone want to give Section 31 credit for things that would actually be Starfleet Intelligence's job? Is it just because it has a catchier name?

While I agree with the larger point, in this particular instance it's probably because it was established on Discovery that Captain Leland of Section 31 had been posted there a few years earlier. Something about "wrestling alligators"?

 

[Mudd]

Sure it was. It was his first assigned command of a mission on the series. That part is key and at that point, that's all that mattered. Same with the first time Spock did a mind-meld type thing with a human. It was the first time...in the series.

What was weird about it, of course, is that he was second in command of a starship without having ever commanded a landing party.

 

[fireproof78]

What was weird about it, of course, is that he was second in command of a starship without having ever commanded a landing party.

You don't actually need command experience to be the executive officer and next in the chain of command on a starship. Don't be ridiculous...

 

[Jedi Marso]

There's a (semantic) difference between being sent on a mission you command, vs being asked to mind the ship in the captain's absence.

Riiiight.

Because what's the bigger responsibility? Command of a shuttlecraft and seven lives, or command of the Enterprise and over 200 lives? Both were 'missions Spock commanded.' Pike wasn't even on the ship.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I'm literally watching TOS after SNW right now. Queued up an episode to research a post and then just kept watching. Giving me my Trek fix now that SNW is over. And it feels fine.

I've been doing the same, sort of cherry picking episodes based on their applicability to SNW or if they are just my favs. Watched The Corbomite Maneuver yesterday.

 

[Ringobeatle]

Spock is a Vulcan: he embraces technicality.

As he says in Amok Time: " Less than a marriage but more than a betrothal."

SNW may not make him try and patch things up with Tpring one more time.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If they show his relationship with Leila Kalomi, it may be a "no strings attached" kind of deal, which Spock might find freeing after breaking the relationship his family arranged and saying goodbye to the one he was about to choose with Christine.

 

[Christopher]

If they show his relationship with Leila Kalomi, it may be a "no strings attached" kind of deal, which Spock might find freeing after breaking the relationship his family arranged and saying goodbye to the one he was about to choose with Christine.

According to "This Side of Paradise," Leila's feelings for Spock were unrequited. They spent time together on Earth during which she fell in love with him, but he never expressed any feelings in return. So there was no relationship, beyond whatever strictly professional or platonic association they had.

It was fortunately never mentioned onscreen, but Roddenberry's intention, revealed in a production memo, was that Vulcan males had an overpowering hypnotic effect on human females, like the effect Mudd's Women or Orion women have on men. So they couldn't help but fall for him, and Spock struggled not to take advantage of his power over them. But this is implicitly how he was able to influence the Yang woman in "The Omega Glory" to get his communicator.

 

[Paul755]

Yeah, there is no evidence that they were ever together in the way she wanted until she exposed him to the spores. Im sure he was fully aware at the time of her feelings but clearly he didn’t act on them even if he felt the same.

 

[Sketcher]

It was fortunately never mentioned onscreen, but Roddenberry's intention, revealed in a production memo, was that Vulcan males had an overpowering hypnotic effect on human females, like the effect Mudd's Women or Orion women have on men. So they couldn't help but fall for him, and Spock struggled not to take advantage of his power over them. But this is implicitly how he was able to influence the Yang woman in "The Omega Glory" to get his communicator.

......Good lord, Gene.

 

[Ithekro]

From what we've seen from women from the 24th century, they are not prepared for hot Spock.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

If they show his relationship with Leila Kalomi, it may be a "no strings attached" kind of deal, which Spock might find freeing after breaking the relationship his family arranged and saying goodbye to the one he was about to choose with Christine.

Fanfic in the making if ever there was one.

 

[Mudd]

From what we've seen from women from the 24th century, they are not prepared for hot Spock.

No one is prepared for hot Spock.

 

[Chovak]

Please TPTB, retcon those silly 60's flings like Kalomi out of existence. I didn't like Pike's one in S1 either. Batel?

Edit: clarification: what might Batel have thought of her?