Keep reminding me of more instances of stupidity and I'm likely to lower my rating.
One little thing I did like was the depiction of space combat in a more three dimensional way.
Revisiting the films...
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
One little thing I did like was the depiction of space combat in a more three dimensional way.
^ Yeah, that did not read like a three-star review on a five-scale at all.
My opinion of the first four movies is exactly the same as when I first saw them over 20 years ago. The same as the TNG movies. Zero difference. My opinion of TFF has gone down but it was a steady decrease over time without fluctuation.
TUC? Where do we begin? I've zig zagged all over the place. 20 years ago, I loved the movie. 10 years ago, I was deeply critical. Now I have a deeply mixed opinion of it.
All the criticisms I have were voiced immediately above or I've posted them before. I agree with them all. No need for me to rehash any of it.
The positives: Cliff Eidelman's score is great and it fit this particular film. The Rura Penthe landscape was an impressive piece of location shooting. It's admirable that TUC wanted to parallel a turning point in Real Life and a turning point in the Star Trek Universe; but the approach could've been handled much better.
In the novelization, an outpost is attacked, crippling Carol, Kirk visted her in the hospital, and that would've made a huge difference in setting up his disposition.
My opinion of the first four movies is exactly the same as when I first saw them over 20 years ago. The same as the TNG movies. Zero difference. My opinion of TFF has gone down but it was a steady decrease over time without fluctuation.
TUC? Where do we begin? I've zig zagged all over the place. 20 years ago, I loved the movie. 10 years ago, I was deeply critical. Now I have a deeply mixed opinion of it.
All the criticisms I have were voiced immediately above or I've posted them before. I agree with them all. No need for me to rehash any of it.
The positives: Cliff Eidelman's score is great and it fit this particular film. The Rura Penthe landscape was an impressive piece of location shooting. It's admirable that TUC wanted to parallel a turning point in Real Life and a turning point in the Star Trek Universe; but the approach could've been handled much better.
In the novelization, an outpost is attacked, crippling Carol, Kirk visted her in the hospital, and that would've made a huge difference in setting up his disposition.
Last edited:
Agreed on both points.
Summation?
The Motion Picture (DE) **** (B+)
- This is a really noble first effort. It displays a lot of thought and care and interest to deal with big ideas. It’s a beautiful film to look at. I think it feels more connected to TOS than any of the subsequent films. Where it falters is the lack of a little more energy and passion through character drama---there’s isn’t quite enough going on---and that keeps the film from being an A effort.
The Wrath Of Khan *** (C+)
- It has the energy and passion that TMP needed more of along with good performances and good character moments. There are nice visuals. But I flat out don’t like Nicholas Meyer’s simplistic and dumbed-down vision of Star Trek. He tries to cover poor writing and huge logic flaws with action and pretty pictures.
The Search For Spock *** (C)
- A continuation of and very similar to TWOK in overall execution. But now it’s wearing even more thin and some of the f/x are starting to look rushed and half-hearted.
The Voyage Home *** (C-)
- The familiar characters are starting to drift from what they once were. The humour is overdone. Like the previous two films it’s the cast that helps keep things afloat, but it’s not enough to overcome a lot of the silliness in this movie.
The Final Frontier ** (D+)
- A good basic story, some good character moments and a solid score can’t overcome sloppy writing, lazy thinking and shoddy looking f/x.
The Undiscovered Country *** (C-)
- A good story idea, good pacing and energy can’t do enough to overcome character deconstruction, a lot of stupidity and the return of Nicholas Meyer’s vision. Despite trying it really isn’t that good a send-off for the TOS crew.
In the end TMP and TWOK are the two best films primarily because they resonate better with the original series. They're both flawed in some way or other and yet they're much like two sides of the same coin. Despite my rating of it TVH is my least favourite of the group---I just found it silly whereas I find TFF to be a noble failure. It certainly makes me think of what some of these films (like TFF) could have been like with another director.
One of the things I disliked about the films was the lack of continuity in sets. Each director brought a different idea to the Enterprise's interiors (notably the Bridge) that really bugged me. It certainly made it difficult to accept that this was really meant to be the same ship or even an almost exact copy.
The Motion Picture (DE) **** (B+)
- This is a really noble first effort. It displays a lot of thought and care and interest to deal with big ideas. It’s a beautiful film to look at. I think it feels more connected to TOS than any of the subsequent films. Where it falters is the lack of a little more energy and passion through character drama---there’s isn’t quite enough going on---and that keeps the film from being an A effort.
The Wrath Of Khan *** (C+)
- It has the energy and passion that TMP needed more of along with good performances and good character moments. There are nice visuals. But I flat out don’t like Nicholas Meyer’s simplistic and dumbed-down vision of Star Trek. He tries to cover poor writing and huge logic flaws with action and pretty pictures.
The Search For Spock *** (C)
- A continuation of and very similar to TWOK in overall execution. But now it’s wearing even more thin and some of the f/x are starting to look rushed and half-hearted.
The Voyage Home *** (C-)
- The familiar characters are starting to drift from what they once were. The humour is overdone. Like the previous two films it’s the cast that helps keep things afloat, but it’s not enough to overcome a lot of the silliness in this movie.
The Final Frontier ** (D+)
- A good basic story, some good character moments and a solid score can’t overcome sloppy writing, lazy thinking and shoddy looking f/x.
The Undiscovered Country *** (C-)
- A good story idea, good pacing and energy can’t do enough to overcome character deconstruction, a lot of stupidity and the return of Nicholas Meyer’s vision. Despite trying it really isn’t that good a send-off for the TOS crew.
In the end TMP and TWOK are the two best films primarily because they resonate better with the original series. They're both flawed in some way or other and yet they're much like two sides of the same coin. Despite my rating of it TVH is my least favourite of the group---I just found it silly whereas I find TFF to be a noble failure. It certainly makes me think of what some of these films (like TFF) could have been like with another director.
One of the things I disliked about the films was the lack of continuity in sets. Each director brought a different idea to the Enterprise's interiors (notably the Bridge) that really bugged me. It certainly made it difficult to accept that this was really meant to be the same ship or even an almost exact copy.
My capsule thoughts on the movies:
1. Star Trek 09-Credit due for a new producer who made ST feel like ST again. Adventure, scale, cachet, all missing from previous Trek movies. If all that's not enough, it's writing brought some small development to characters that basically didn't change much in the original series, executed well enough to be nominated for a Hugo, Nebula, Writers Guild Award, a trifecta not accomplished by any other Trek movie.
A home run, a bullseye, direct hit!! A smashing blockbuster success! The most cinematic, the most dense, most energetic, fully realized, rich, fun, rousing, professionally made MOVIE of all of ST. Rewatchable with almost every sequence creating a lasting impression. The best "teaser", best beginning credit sequences, the best Special FX, the best sound, best ending credits! Grade: ***** of 5 stars
2. Wrath of Khan-The best movie for 27 years until 2009! Good characterization, and a movie that makes up for an underwritten villain role with terrific performances by everyone concerned. Themes about aging, family, new life-hope, with a good dose of action. Still contains SF movie's best battle scene. *****
3. First Contact-Admittedly, not a perfect film, and not the best Borg story by a long shot but it also offered a multi-leveled formula for success: ST history, time-travel, almost elemental enemies, and something rarely seen..a personal vendetta for Picard. ****
4. Voyage Home-Not completely logical but a fun movie with no significant strikes against it. Expanded the ST universe a bit, with a look at Starfleet and the UFP. Did I mention fun? ****
5. Nemesis-Again, not a perfect movie, one I'd have re-written myself somewhat, but it's a major improvement in scale and pace over the previous STNG movie as well as the latter TOS ones. ***1/2
6. STMMP-DE-Ok here is where I change my mind occasionally..sometimes STIII feels more statisfying as a movie, but the new DE is an improvement over the original...its a tighter movie. Hard to beat for FX and music (both nominated for Oscars)the story feels slim, but the philosophy behind it wins the day. ***1/2
7. STIII-So STTMP improves upon TOS with a story that takes AI seriously, and tried to include Spock in that as a personal link...STIII again uses Spock but in a story whose philosophy is bizarre and very un-Treklike...postulating souls that come back to life...must have had theists as well as non-theists perplexed in it's day (I was 14 and just knew I liked Spock being alive). There are good moments and ILM does a great job on a small budget (one that used fewer FX than many made-for-tv movies, as well as STNG 3 yrs later). Ultimately it can't compete with some of the better Trek movies. ***
8. Undiscovered Country-Marginally better than #9 on my list. Not a movie that withstands the test of time well both in production and format. ***
9. Insurrection-Underrated, certainly not a terrible movie. Lacks scale and a sense of urgency. Gains points for a plot that's still debated amongst fans today. ***
10. Generations-A complete mess of a script. The most inconsistent internal logic of all stories. It's few pluses can't make up for a scattershot mis-fire of a movie. **
11. Final frontier-The movie that shall not be named! Though I am naming it embarrassingly bad. Problems begin at the start of a poor concept, terrible dialogue, dumb humor, horrible FX, old actors looking tired. This is what happens when the studio doesn't throw out a clearly terrible script...possibly because of the success of STIV and STNG. 1/2
RAMA
1. Star Trek 09-Credit due for a new producer who made ST feel like ST again. Adventure, scale, cachet, all missing from previous Trek movies. If all that's not enough, it's writing brought some small development to characters that basically didn't change much in the original series, executed well enough to be nominated for a Hugo, Nebula, Writers Guild Award, a trifecta not accomplished by any other Trek movie.
A home run, a bullseye, direct hit!! A smashing blockbuster success! The most cinematic, the most dense, most energetic, fully realized, rich, fun, rousing, professionally made MOVIE of all of ST. Rewatchable with almost every sequence creating a lasting impression. The best "teaser", best beginning credit sequences, the best Special FX, the best sound, best ending credits! Grade: ***** of 5 stars
2. Wrath of Khan-The best movie for 27 years until 2009! Good characterization, and a movie that makes up for an underwritten villain role with terrific performances by everyone concerned. Themes about aging, family, new life-hope, with a good dose of action. Still contains SF movie's best battle scene. *****
3. First Contact-Admittedly, not a perfect film, and not the best Borg story by a long shot but it also offered a multi-leveled formula for success: ST history, time-travel, almost elemental enemies, and something rarely seen..a personal vendetta for Picard. ****
4. Voyage Home-Not completely logical but a fun movie with no significant strikes against it. Expanded the ST universe a bit, with a look at Starfleet and the UFP. Did I mention fun? ****
5. Nemesis-Again, not a perfect movie, one I'd have re-written myself somewhat, but it's a major improvement in scale and pace over the previous STNG movie as well as the latter TOS ones. ***1/2
6. STMMP-DE-Ok here is where I change my mind occasionally..sometimes STIII feels more statisfying as a movie, but the new DE is an improvement over the original...its a tighter movie. Hard to beat for FX and music (both nominated for Oscars)the story feels slim, but the philosophy behind it wins the day. ***1/2
7. STIII-So STTMP improves upon TOS with a story that takes AI seriously, and tried to include Spock in that as a personal link...STIII again uses Spock but in a story whose philosophy is bizarre and very un-Treklike...postulating souls that come back to life...must have had theists as well as non-theists perplexed in it's day (I was 14 and just knew I liked Spock being alive). There are good moments and ILM does a great job on a small budget (one that used fewer FX than many made-for-tv movies, as well as STNG 3 yrs later). Ultimately it can't compete with some of the better Trek movies. ***
8. Undiscovered Country-Marginally better than #9 on my list. Not a movie that withstands the test of time well both in production and format. ***
9. Insurrection-Underrated, certainly not a terrible movie. Lacks scale and a sense of urgency. Gains points for a plot that's still debated amongst fans today. ***
10. Generations-A complete mess of a script. The most inconsistent internal logic of all stories. It's few pluses can't make up for a scattershot mis-fire of a movie. **
11. Final frontier-The movie that shall not be named! Though I am naming it embarrassingly bad. Problems begin at the start of a poor concept, terrible dialogue, dumb humor, horrible FX, old actors looking tired. This is what happens when the studio doesn't throw out a clearly terrible script...possibly because of the success of STIV and STNG. 1/2
RAMA
The films really are such a mixed bag for me. I watched them all (up to Insurrection) in the theater and have re watched them all on video and DVD multiple times. I was never as fond of TWOK or TVH as most, particularly TVH, but I still watch them with enjoyment. Mostly. And that brings me to TUC.
I remember exiting the theater pumped over this film, thinking it one of the better of Trek's theatrical offerings. There had been a couple of scenes that made me cringe, but far fewer than TVH or TFF. There had been some serious holes in the plot, but what Trek hasn't had those? The issue is that every single time I have viewed it since, the cringes increase and the plot holes just seem to keep coming. It has ended up being my second least favorite of them all and my least favorite with the original cast.
What were they thinking?
I remember exiting the theater pumped over this film, thinking it one of the better of Trek's theatrical offerings. There had been a couple of scenes that made me cringe, but far fewer than TVH or TFF. There had been some serious holes in the plot, but what Trek hasn't had those? The issue is that every single time I have viewed it since, the cringes increase and the plot holes just seem to keep coming. It has ended up being my second least favorite of them all and my least favorite with the original cast.
What were they thinking?
I disagree with this on so many levels I wouldn't know where to start. I'll take TFF over any of the TNG films and certainly over ST09 by a wide margin anytime.
Then again you and I hardly ever agree on anything.
Warped9,
First, than you for starting this thread. Given what you have said of the films in other threads, I wasn't sure what to expect, but I feel that you gave fair reviews to all of the films you covered. I think that all of your criticisms are valid, though in the majority of cases they don't seem to effect my enjoyment of these films as much as they do yours, which is fine.
One thing you mentioned in one of the reviews, I don't recall which, was Shatner's performances seemly less "Kirk-like" as the film series went on. This is something that I have to admit hinders my enjoyment somewhat. I think it is noticeable in some way in IV, V and VI, though it is--to my mind--a major problem in V. The character he is playing doesn't seem very much like the Kirk of TOS, or even TMP, TWOK and TSFS. It is a major issue for me in Generations, which you didn't cover. There are a few lines in the Enterprise-B sequence at the beginning of the film that seem "off" to me, but the whole sequence in the Nexus seems like he's playing a different character to me. Hard to put my finger on jyst what it is, but his mannerism's and delivery of lines seems more like Shatner than Kirk to me. I don't know how much of this is the fault of the script he was given, but it definitely bugs me when I watch.
Again, thanks for the reviews!
First, than you for starting this thread. Given what you have said of the films in other threads, I wasn't sure what to expect, but I feel that you gave fair reviews to all of the films you covered. I think that all of your criticisms are valid, though in the majority of cases they don't seem to effect my enjoyment of these films as much as they do yours, which is fine.
One thing you mentioned in one of the reviews, I don't recall which, was Shatner's performances seemly less "Kirk-like" as the film series went on. This is something that I have to admit hinders my enjoyment somewhat. I think it is noticeable in some way in IV, V and VI, though it is--to my mind--a major problem in V. The character he is playing doesn't seem very much like the Kirk of TOS, or even TMP, TWOK and TSFS. It is a major issue for me in Generations, which you didn't cover. There are a few lines in the Enterprise-B sequence at the beginning of the film that seem "off" to me, but the whole sequence in the Nexus seems like he's playing a different character to me. Hard to put my finger on jyst what it is, but his mannerism's and delivery of lines seems more like Shatner than Kirk to me. I don't know how much of this is the fault of the script he was given, but it definitely bugs me when I watch.
Again, thanks for the reviews!
I've had much the same feeling. Some of it may indeed have something to do with the scripts. In TFF it's Shatner directing himself so how objective could he have been in regard to his own performance?
You blew your credibility by naming Nemesis the fifth best movie.
I don't care what other people think, I've already explained my reasons on this forum before and the reasons are just as valid if not moreso than for you liking STV or whatever.
RAMA
I certainly intend to revisit ST09!! I have a friend who never watched ST of any kind before and she recently watched ST09 a few months ago, she watched it 8-9 times in a row....she couldn't stop! Its that good. These are the kinds of future movie goers that will make ST2013 a $500 million hit.
I certainly have no intention of seeing STGEN or STV anytime soon!
That's because I have good taste!
RAMA
I'd be worried if the two of you ever did agree on anything. I'm an atheist, but in the remote case I'm wrong: I don't want it to be frozen if I end up in Hell.
Yeah, the Mayans probably had some sort of date marked on their calendar for Doomsday if we ever agreed to anything!
Last edited:
One of you must start a thread about ST XI or XII in December and the other must reply. This is unconditional. Provide an argument of epic proportions. Literally epic.
The fate of humanity depends on it. Tell PKTrekGirl and M'Sharak I said so.
The fate of humanity depends on it. Tell PKTrekGirl and M'Sharak I said so.
Good. I look forward to reading your observations on those films.
Uh, sure...
Considering the heaving ST09 induced when I watched it it's not likely I'll bother with the sequels. I already have zero respect for J.J. and his work so why subject myself to more of it?
I'll check in on the next reboot whenever it may happen.
