Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Warped9, Mar 13, 2011.

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  1. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think it was a radical idea to introduce in the TOS era, not by the standards by which TOS was telling stories about the era. The TOS era wasn't utopian or perfect as best evidenced by all the things that didn't go smoothly within it. It only seems radical by perspective from the TNG era with its evolved society notion and retconned into TOS. But it's perfectly valid, and refreshingly so, within the context of TOS' depiction of the 23rd century.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    The Way to Eden. Nothing to love, nothing to hate. Three stars.
     
  3. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    I think it's safe to say the vast majority of hippies and yippies were by and large peaceful. Sure, there were some hypocritical extremists, but to say "so many of them" appears to implicate a fairly large number, when such was not the case.

    The problem is that the space hippies were literally SPACE HIPPIES. A sect that is disenchanted with the culture at large could have been portrayed in dozens of other ways, but, since they hit the subject on the nose it comes across as middle-aged people commenting on a youth culture they don't understand. That's doesn't "reach".
     
  4. scotpens

    scotpens Professional Geek Premium Member

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    In TOS-R, the Aurora was completely redone as a cross between a small submarine and a hippie VW microbus with nacelles.

    [​IMG]

    Agreed. If you mean radical groups like the “Symbionese Liberation Army” who kidnapped Patty Hearst, I wouldn’t classify them as hippies — just violent, extremist nutjobs.
     
  5. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Your count is off...
     
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    ^^ :lol: I'm sorry, but that looks like a tadpole or a grey coloured sperm with nacelles. It looks stupid. Now the original Aurora doesn't look so bad.

    Oops! Correct. It's 6 out of 79, not 5.
     
  7. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    One of my favorites of the season. I disagree with Gerrold's opinion of the depiction of his script adaptation. The masks aren't a cure all where the Troglytes simply go back happily and continue being a sub-class with an attitude, I think Vanna makes it clear they will have a voice and be integrated into the society, and who knows, maybe eventually the classes will dissipate. Whoever winds up mining will NEED the masks.

    Technically Kirk interferes with this civilization, but its more forgivable than some other instances. The society is possibly slightly more advanced for a start. Kirk employs some lateral logic rather than direct insurrection. ****1/2 stars

    Ugh, this episode gives me a headache...the luddite, hippie commune, transcendentalist movement isn't a new idea of course, the return to "nature" is probably ingrained in the older areas of the human brain and throughout human culture, often thought of as being superior to traditional "progress", and inherently "good". Such movements have been repeated throughout history. Of course I believe most ST fans don't really agree with this notion, feeling that a balance can either be reached or where technology will simply make such distinctions moot, possbily through the much discussed technological singularity (something Trek has yet to deal with on an human societal level, though of course they have met several such cultures and seen their artifacts..such as Dyson Spheres, time portals). Unfortunately the episode is simply too much a product of it's time and doesn't date well. Its not that we shouldn't stop to think about such things, and reflect on ourselves, but we really shouldn't be wearing hippie outfits while doing it. * star

    The TOS-R episode comes complete with a nicely realized space chase, and an excellent matte.

    http://img.trekmovie.com/tosrem/waytoeden/new_tosr075_05.jpg
    http://img.trekmovie.com/tosrem/waytoeden/new_tosr075_03.jpg
    http://img.trekmovie.com/tosrem/waytoeden/new_tosr075_16.jpg

    Aww, you are more generous than Santa. makes me feel all warm inside.

    RAMA
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  8. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    The Ardanans have teleport technology as well as sophisticated antigravity tech that seems impressive to Kirk and Spock (when candidly it really shouldn't given what we've seen of Federation science). And we can safely assume we're seeing only a fragment of the Ardanan civilization.
     
  9. scotpens

    scotpens Professional Geek Premium Member

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    I agree with you there. The original may be simple and crude, but at least it looks like a space vehicle that’s a product of advanced technology.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    They adapted the automated freighter design from TAS (but they should have used the Huron design) for "Charlie X." I can think of perhaps one or two other TAS designs that could have served for the Aurora and it would have been better looking.
     
  11. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    You CAN still interfere with equal or advanced societies you know. The High Advisor would probably still have a valid protest to make to the UFP...where it would no doubt get lost in red tape.

    RAMA
     
  12. MANT!

    MANT! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Old..
    [​IMG]
    New..
    [​IMG]


    And the new looks like a Matt Jefferies design...with a few changes and enlargement as befitting a cabin cruiser..

    [​IMG]

    I prefer the new to the old..and not in a knee-jerk reaction either..

    At least the new looks like something Matt Jefferies designed..Not something the 'suits" demanded to save money...

    As for the story... It's grown on me a bit..but the overly done "Space-Hippies" aspect and the forced "romance" with Chekov just seems a bit overdone to me...

    so..3.5 out of 5...for me...
     
  13. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    The proportions of MJ's initial shuttlecraft design and the TOS-R design aren't the same. And a concept drawing isn't the same as a finished and fleshed out design. The Deadalus design glimpsed in DS9 on Sisko's desk is another good example of taking a concept too literally.
     
  14. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    The Aurora is a good design but the model is badly shot, as are almost all the models in TOS. I also agree that the new one is a faithful reproduction of a new 60s look, rather than a slavish copy of a design used to save $.

    RAMA
     
  15. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    The modified Tholian model suffers from the fact that it's too damn soon after "The Tholian Web" to be seeing that same model again, only very slightly modified. Big thumbs up for the TOS-R version.

    As for the fan anger at "The Way To Eden", I think it has more to do with the fact that it was supposed to introduce us to McCoy's daughter, Joanna, not Chekov's old girlfriend, and takes that big swan dive down the drain thanks to Fred Freiberger's most infamous decision, namely that McCoy and Kirk were magically the same age, even though De Kelley was clearly around ten years older than Bill Shatner.
     
  16. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The original Aurora = Tholian ship with a couple of warp nacelles tacked on. Never cared for it. problem is, I didn't care for the TOS-R redesign either.

    As for the episode; while the concept is interesting (A disease that forces a person to reamin in high tech areas, as he'll die and possibly spread the disease if he doesn't); the execution is (imo) way off:

    1) Didn't care foor the overt and obvious/overdone 'Hippie' bit. It really doesn't age well and is something that really dates the episode (and what I mean by that is: In contrast a lot of the first season and more high concept eisodes still come across as futuristic and dont scream - hey look it's 1969!

    2) Interesting that in The Enterprise Incident, the 1701 is sourrounded within a few minutes of entering Romulan space; yet in this episode, they cross - orbit a planet, the kids manage to incapacitate the crew, take and land a shuttlecraft; and hours later the 1701 ctrew awakes, beams down - recoveres the shuttle, and warps out with nary a Romulan ship appearance. In the second season episode The Deadly Years, the 1701 crossed into the Romuln Neutral Zone, got surrounded, and nearlty blown to bits. My point; The episode story would have worked just as well without a mention of the Romulans.

    3) For all the talk of emulating the peaceful nature of the 1960ies hippie movement; I think it was interesting that, when Severin adjusted sound waves and told his followers they would only stun - a couple of the them knew it woould in fact kill and had no problem with it. (Honestly, I wonder if the script writter was more trying to show a more 'Charlie Manson' style dynamic as the episode was done after the Manson murders when deatails about what happened were all over the news as the trial date neared.

    4) The 'songs' (and I use the term loosley); imo - ugh.

    Me? Definitely two stars (the concept saves it from a one star for me.
     
  17. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    No, the obvious inspiration for Cloud City on Bespin was the Hawkmen Sky City in the original Flash Gordon comics and serials.
     
  18. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm actually glad they didn't go that route. The story is better for it. And Freibereger's notion doesn't come across onscreen.

    Possibly. But I do know in real life some purported peace loving folks don't seem to have much problem hurting others when it's for their "good" cause. Some animal rights, pro-life and environmentalists come to mind. And, yes, I'm thinking of the extremist fringe and not the mainstream of those groups.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  19. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

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    The Aurora is a case where TOS-R beats the original. Never bought the Tholians with warp nacelles look. :shrug:
     
  20. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    The reuse of the Botany Bay from "Space Seed" as the old automated freighter Woden in "The Ultimate Computer" was also a disappointment.
     
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