Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...

[Warped9]

I don't think it was a radical idea to introduce in the TOS era, not by the standards by which TOS was telling stories about the era. The TOS era wasn't utopian or perfect as best evidenced by all the things that didn't go smoothly within it. It only seems radical by perspective from the TNG era with its evolved society notion and retconned into TOS. But it's perfectly valid, and refreshingly so, within the context of TOS' depiction of the 23rd century.

 

[BillJ]

The Way to Eden. Nothing to love, nothing to hate. Three stars.

 

[Maurice]

"The Way to Eden" is one of those shows which has been totally ridiculed and dismissed by Trek fans, but which has much to offer in spite of its absurd elements. I like way it acts as an expose of the real-life hippies, how so many of them gave lip service to peace and love and brotherhood but who at the same time had no problem with hurting and killing innocent people to achieve their goals.

I think it's safe to say the vast majority of hippies and yippies were by and large peaceful. Sure, there were some hypocritical extremists, but to say "so many of them" appears to implicate a fairly large number, when such was not the case.

“The Way To Eden” ****
This episode has often been ridiculed over the years because of its overt representation of the '60's era hippy culture...

The problem is that the space hippies were literally SPACE HIPPIES. A sect that is disenchanted with the culture at large could have been portrayed in dozens of other ways, but, since they hit the subject on the nose it comes across as middle-aged people commenting on a youth culture they don't understand. That's doesn't "reach".

 

[scotpens]

. . . The other small disappointment was seeing a moderately modified reuse of the Tholian webspinner as the stolen space cruiser Aurora.

In TOS-R, the Aurora was completely redone as a cross between a small submarine and a hippie VW microbus with nacelles.

I think it's safe to say the vast majority of hippies and yippies were by and large peaceful. Sure, there were some hypocritical extremists, but to say “so many of them” appears to implicate a fairly large number, when such was not the case.

Agreed. If you mean radical groups like the “Symbionese Liberation Army” who kidnapped Patty Hearst, I wouldn’t classify them as hippies — just violent, extremist nutjobs.

 

[RAMA]

One of the things I've found somewhat eye opening during my revisit of the series has been trying to see whether widely held perceptions or myths of TOS really apply or are exaggerated.

Two come immediately to mind: Kirk's dalliances with women (which I've devoted to another thread) and Kirk's encounters with computers.


In regard to computers the popular notion is that Kirk has driven numerous computers to self-destruction with illogic. Well, this is what I've seen during this revisit:

“What Are Little Girls Made Of?” - Kirk doesn't really destroy the androids as much as confuses them. Indeed Kirk applies logic that cuts to the heart of the matter which makes Ruk turn on Corby and Corby recognize what little humanity is really left in himself.
“The Return Of The Archons” - Pyrotechnics aside it isn't illogic but rather relentless logic that freezes Landru into burning itself out.
“A Taste Of Armageddon” - No reasoning but good old-fashioned phaser fire. Here the computer wasn't the problem but the people running things.
The Apple - There was no way to reason with Vaal so it had to be destroyed or the Enterprise would have been destroyed.
“The Changeling” - Kirk forces Nomad to accept and apply its own logic to itself. It went boom.
“I, Mudd” - This is where illogic is genuinely applied. It's silly, but then so is the whole episode.
“The Ultimate Computer” - Probably the most realistic depiction of Kirk applying relentless logic to an intelligent computer. It just shut itself off.
“For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky” - No reasoning with the Oracle, but just turn it off.
“That Which Survives” - Again no reasoning with the Kalandan defense computer, but rather just having to destroy it.

So out of 79 episodes Kirk uses some form of reasoning to affect a computer no more than five times and only once out of those five does he actually use illogic.

Your count is off...

 

[Warped9]

. . . The other small disappointment was seeing a moderately modified reuse of the Tholian webspinner as the stolen space cruiser Aurora.

In TOS-R, the Aurora was completely redone as a cross between a small submarine and a hippie VW microbus with nacelles.

^^ I'm sorry, but that looks like a tadpole or a grey coloured sperm with nacelles. It looks stupid. Now the original Aurora doesn't look so bad.

One of the things I've found somewhat eye opening during my revisit of the series has been trying to see whether widely held perceptions or myths of TOS really apply or are exaggerated.

Two come immediately to mind: Kirk's dalliances with women (which I've devoted to another thread) and Kirk's encounters with computers.


In regard to computers the popular notion is that Kirk has driven numerous computers to self-destruction with illogic. Well, this is what I've seen during this revisit:

“What Are Little Girls Made Of?” - Kirk doesn't really destroy the androids as much as confuses them. Indeed Kirk applies logic that cuts to the heart of the matter which makes Ruk turn on Corby and Corby recognize what little humanity is really left in himself.
“The Return Of The Archons” - Pyrotechnics aside it isn't illogic but rather relentless logic that freezes Landru into burning itself out.
“A Taste Of Armageddon” - No reasoning but good old-fashioned phaser fire. Here the computer wasn't the problem but the people running things.
The Apple - There was no way to reason with Vaal so it had to be destroyed or the Enterprise would have been destroyed.
“The Changeling” - Kirk forces Nomad to accept and apply its own logic to itself. It went boom.
“I, Mudd” - This is where illogic is genuinely applied. It's silly, but then so is the whole episode.
“The Ultimate Computer” - Probably the most realistic depiction of Kirk applying relentless logic to an intelligent computer. It just shut itself off.
“For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky” - No reasoning with the Oracle, but just turn it off.
“That Which Survives” - Again no reasoning with the Kalandan defense computer, but rather just having to destroy it.

So out of 79 episodes Kirk uses some form of reasoning to affect a computer no more than five times and only once out of those five does he actually use illogic.

Your count is off...

Oops! Correct. It's 6 out of 79, not 5.

 

[RAMA]

"The Cloud Minders" ****

While trying to obtain a desperately needed mineral Kirk is caught in the midst of a planet's class struggles.

This episode harkens back not only to TOS' better efforts, but also to ideas visited in previous episodes, namely: the sharp divisions of societal classes and the abuse of privilege and position in society. It's also a more showy episode with never before seen sets and mattes more befitting what has been seen in the previous two seasons as well as the earlier part of the third season.

I'm actually quite taken with this story because it has something significant to say. And I find it marred in really only small ways. The first is Spock's omniscient narrative which I find completely unnecessary as the story unfolds and reveals everything Spock was narrating aloud without it having to be spelled out for us. I also found Spock momentarily out of character by seeming quite willing to discuss pon farr which we were earlier led to believe was a rather a private issue for Vulcans. Granted, though, that the way the scene is shot one could assume that Droxine raised the subject because she had somehow heard and/or studied it previously.

This episode also underlines that the Federation needs a better vetting system for Ardana's blatant inequality toward many of its own people to have gone unnoticed until now. Yes, there is the question of whether Kirk overstepped boundaries by offering Vanna and the troglytes the filter masks, but then Plasus didn't appear to be very effective in fulfilling his planet's obligations to another Federation member.

All told while it's not superb I still think it's a reasonably well done episode particularly in light of TOS' bad rep for its third season.

One of my favorites of the season. I disagree with Gerrold's opinion of the depiction of his script adaptation. The masks aren't a cure all where the Troglytes simply go back happily and continue being a sub-class with an attitude, I think Vanna makes it clear they will have a voice and be integrated into the society, and who knows, maybe eventually the classes will dissipate. Whoever winds up mining will NEED the masks.

Technically Kirk interferes with this civilization, but its more forgivable than some other instances. The society is possibly slightly more advanced for a start. Kirk employs some lateral logic rather than direct insurrection. ****1/2 stars

“The Way To Eden” ****

The Enterprise takes aboard a group passionately disenchanted with contemporary society.

I'm a little conflicted about this one, but ultimately I have to vote with my level of enjoyment. This episode has often been ridiculed over the years because of its overt representation of the '60's era hippy culture and I, too, wasn't all that crazy about the episode all those many years ago. But I think as a science fiction story the increasing passage of time is kinder to the episode and its story primarily because we are distanced from the immediate familiarity with the era. The idea of people being disenchanted with their contemporary society is an old one yet also a perfectly valid one for science fiction.

The overall execution does give the episode something of its own ambience. The musical accompaniment beyond the traditional soundtrack seems rather more contemporary than of the era when the episode was made. It's also shown off better than some previous third season episodes.

If I have any real criticism it's in regard to Chekov's and Irina's overly thick accents---it's just too overdone---and their exchanges come across as just a little too conventional. Also I find it amusing that Shatner's hair has gotten so much attention over the years because Walter Koenig's hair looks almost like an alien lifeform in itself. The other small disappointment was seeing a moderately modified reuse of the Tholian webspinner as the stolen space cruiser Aurora.

The ending could be interpreted as somewhat contrived, what with Adam poisoned by the very Eden he sought, but then I'm challenged to imagine how else the story could have ended and still be dramatic.

I was near convinced that this would be at best just an okay 3 star episode except that I found myself enjoying it more than expected. It also didn't falter in any significant way as I had half expected it to do.

Ugh, this episode gives me a headache...the luddite, hippie commune, transcendentalist movement isn't a new idea of course, the return to "nature" is probably ingrained in the older areas of the human brain and throughout human culture, often thought of as being superior to traditional "progress", and inherently "good". Such movements have been repeated throughout history. Of course I believe most ST fans don't really agree with this notion, feeling that a balance can either be reached or where technology will simply make such distinctions moot, possbily through the much discussed technological singularity (something Trek has yet to deal with on an human societal level, though of course they have met several such cultures and seen their artifacts..such as Dyson Spheres, time portals). Unfortunately the episode is simply too much a product of it's time and doesn't date well. Its not that we shouldn't stop to think about such things, and reflect on ourselves, but we really shouldn't be wearing hippie outfits while doing it. * star

The TOS-R episode comes complete with a nicely realized space chase, and an excellent matte.

http://img.trekmovie.com/tosrem/waytoeden/new_tosr075_05.jpg
http://img.trekmovie.com/tosrem/waytoeden/new_tosr075_03.jpg
http://img.trekmovie.com/tosrem/waytoeden/new_tosr075_16.jpg

The Way to Eden. Nothing to love, nothing to hate. Three stars.

Aww, you are more generous than Santa. makes me feel all warm inside.

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

Technically Kirk interferes with this civilization, but its more forgivable than some other instances. The society is possibly slightly more advanced for a start.

RAMA

The Ardanans have teleport technology as well as sophisticated antigravity tech that seems impressive to Kirk and Spock (when candidly it really shouldn't given what we've seen of Federation science). And we can safely assume we're seeing only a fragment of the Ardanan civilization.

 

[scotpens]

I'm sorry, but that looks like a tadpole or a grey coloured sperm with nacelles. It looks stupid. Now the original Aurora doesn't look so bad.

I agree with you there. The original may be simple and crude, but at least it looks like a space vehicle that’s a product of advanced technology.

 

[Warped9]

I'm sorry, but that looks like a tadpole or a grey coloured sperm with nacelles. It looks stupid. Now the original Aurora doesn't look so bad.

I agree with you there. The original may be simple and crude, but at least it looks like a space vehicle that’s a product of advanced technology.

They adapted the automated freighter design from TAS (but they should have used the Huron design) for "Charlie X." I can think of perhaps one or two other TAS designs that could have served for the Aurora and it would have been better looking.

 

[RAMA]

Technically Kirk interferes with this civilization, but its more forgivable than some other instances. The society is possibly slightly more advanced for a start.

RAMA

The Ardanans have teleport technology as well as sophisticated antigravity tech that seems impressive to Kirk and Spock (when candidly it really shouldn't given what we've seen of Federation science). And we can safely assume we're seeing only a fragment of the Ardanan civilization.

You CAN still interfere with equal or advanced societies you know. The High Advisor would probably still have a valid protest to make to the UFP...where it would no doubt get lost in red tape.

RAMA

 

[MANT!]

Old..

New..

And the new looks like a Matt Jefferies design...with a few changes and enlargement as befitting a cabin cruiser..

I prefer the new to the old..and not in a knee-jerk reaction either..

At least the new looks like something Matt Jefferies designed..Not something the 'suits" demanded to save money...

As for the story... It's grown on me a bit..but the overly done "Space-Hippies" aspect and the forced "romance" with Chekov just seems a bit overdone to me...

so..3.5 out of 5...for me...

 

[Warped9]

The proportions of MJ's initial shuttlecraft design and the TOS-R design aren't the same. And a concept drawing isn't the same as a finished and fleshed out design. The Deadalus design glimpsed in DS9 on Sisko's desk is another good example of taking a concept too literally.

 

[RAMA]

Old..

New..

And the new looks like a Matt Jefferies design...with a few changes and enlargement as befitting a cabin cruiser..

I prefer the new to the old..and not in a knee-jerk reaction either..

At least the new looks like something Matt Jefferies designed..Not something the 'suits" demanded to save money...

.

The Aurora is a good design but the model is badly shot, as are almost all the models in TOS. I also agree that the new one is a faithful reproduction of a new 60s look, rather than a slavish copy of a design used to save $.

RAMA

 

[Captain Robert April]

The modified Tholian model suffers from the fact that it's too damn soon after "The Tholian Web" to be seeing that same model again, only very slightly modified. Big thumbs up for the TOS-R version.

As for the fan anger at "The Way To Eden", I think it has more to do with the fact that it was supposed to introduce us to McCoy's daughter, Joanna, not Chekov's old girlfriend, and takes that big swan dive down the drain thanks to Fred Freiberger's most infamous decision, namely that McCoy and Kirk were magically the same age, even though De Kelley was clearly around ten years older than Bill Shatner.

 

[Noname Given]

The original Aurora = Tholian ship with a couple of warp nacelles tacked on. Never cared for it. problem is, I didn't care for the TOS-R redesign either.

As for the episode; while the concept is interesting (A disease that forces a person to reamin in high tech areas, as he'll die and possibly spread the disease if he doesn't); the execution is (imo) way off:

1) Didn't care foor the overt and obvious/overdone 'Hippie' bit. It really doesn't age well and is something that really dates the episode (and what I mean by that is: In contrast a lot of the first season and more high concept eisodes still come across as futuristic and dont scream - hey look it's 1969!

2) Interesting that in The Enterprise Incident, the 1701 is sourrounded within a few minutes of entering Romulan space; yet in this episode, they cross - orbit a planet, the kids manage to incapacitate the crew, take and land a shuttlecraft; and hours later the 1701 ctrew awakes, beams down - recoveres the shuttle, and warps out with nary a Romulan ship appearance. In the second season episode The Deadly Years, the 1701 crossed into the Romuln Neutral Zone, got surrounded, and nearlty blown to bits. My point; The episode story would have worked just as well without a mention of the Romulans.

3) For all the talk of emulating the peaceful nature of the 1960ies hippie movement; I think it was interesting that, when Severin adjusted sound waves and told his followers they would only stun - a couple of the them knew it woould in fact kill and had no problem with it. (Honestly, I wonder if the script writter was more trying to show a more 'Charlie Manson' style dynamic as the episode was done after the Manson murders when deatails about what happened were all over the news as the trial date neared.

4) The 'songs' (and I use the term loosley); imo - ugh.

Me? Definitely two stars (the concept saves it from a one star for me.

 

[Maurice]

Wonder if Stratos was inspiration for Bespin?

No, the obvious inspiration for Cloud City on Bespin was the Hawkmen Sky City in the original Flash Gordon comics and serials.

 

[Warped9]

As for the fan anger at "The Way To Eden", I think it has more to do with the fact that it was supposed to introduce us to McCoy's daughter, Joanna, not Chekov's old girlfriend, and takes that big swan dive down the drain thanks to Fred Freiberger's most infamous decision, namely that McCoy and Kirk were magically the same age, even though De Kelley was clearly around ten years older than Bill Shatner.

I'm actually glad they didn't go that route. The story is better for it. And Freibereger's notion doesn't come across onscreen.

For all the talk of emulating the peaceful nature of the 1960ies hippie movement; I think it was interesting that, when Severin adjusted sound waves and told his followers they would only stun - a couple of the them knew it woould in fact kill and had no problem with it. (Honestly, I wonder if the script writter was more trying to show a more 'Charlie Manson' style dynamic as the episode was done after the Manson murders when deatails about what happened were all over the news as the trial date neared.

Possibly. But I do know in real life some purported peace loving folks don't seem to have much problem hurting others when it's for their "good" cause. Some animal rights, pro-life and environmentalists come to mind. And, yes, I'm thinking of the extremist fringe and not the mainstream of those groups.

 

[BillJ]

The Aurora is a case where TOS-R beats the original. Never bought the Tholians with warp nacelles look.

 

[Warped9]

The reuse of the Botany Bay from "Space Seed" as the old automated freighter Woden in "The Ultimate Computer" was also a disappointment.