Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
- Status
I think it reflects the contemporary fear of overpopulation more than any well-researched result of it.
Interesting note on overpopulation (and I hope I'm remembering this right) - a recent National Geographic article said that if you gathered all 7 billion people on Earth into one place, shoulder-to-shoulder, packed like sardines, there'd only be enough to cover an area the size of Los Angeles.
Interesting note on overpopulation (and I hope I'm remembering this right) - a recent National Geographic article said that if you gathered all 7 billion people on Earth into one place, shoulder-to-shoulder, packed like sardines, there'd only be enough to cover an area the size of Los Angeles.
And isn't it standard procedure to signal the ship and notify them transport is complete?
Based on that, there should be just over 2 trillion people on Gideon., assuming the planet is roughly the same size and has similar amount of its surface area covered by land as Earth.
That's a lot of folks. Rather than using a disease, maybe they should've just let the Soylent company open up a franchise there.
What went wrong?
“The Apple” ** - It's just so bland and ordinary and generally paint-by-number.
“I, Mudd” ** - The potential threat of the androids is completely undermined for the sake of playing for laughs.
“A Piece Of The Action” ** - The parallel Earth concept made truly absurd and all of it played for cheap laughs.
“And The Children Shall Lead” * - Potential valid story ruined by embarrassing overacting, poor villain concept and performance and kids.
“Spock’s Brain” ** - essentially interesting story idea marred by poor conceptual thinking and bad choices.
“Wink Of An Eye” * - Atrocious science even for sci-fi.
“Whom Gods Destroy” * - Everything about this screams "cheap" in production and in thinking.
“The Mark Of Gideon” ** - Ludicrous concepts and expecting too much suspension of disbelief.
Beyond questionable execution the overall failures were lack of focus, misplaced intent and not thinking the ideas through more fully.
“The Apple” ** - It's just so bland and ordinary and generally paint-by-number.
“I, Mudd” ** - The potential threat of the androids is completely undermined for the sake of playing for laughs.
“A Piece Of The Action” ** - The parallel Earth concept made truly absurd and all of it played for cheap laughs.
“And The Children Shall Lead” * - Potential valid story ruined by embarrassing overacting, poor villain concept and performance and kids.
“Spock’s Brain” ** - essentially interesting story idea marred by poor conceptual thinking and bad choices.
“Wink Of An Eye” * - Atrocious science even for sci-fi.
“Whom Gods Destroy” * - Everything about this screams "cheap" in production and in thinking.
“The Mark Of Gideon” ** - Ludicrous concepts and expecting too much suspension of disbelief.
Beyond questionable execution the overall failures were lack of focus, misplaced intent and not thinking the ideas through more fully.
^^ I pretty much agree with all your above assessments except for “I, Mudd.” I never got the impression that the androids were meant to be seen as a real menace — or, for that matter, than any of it should be taken seriously. The episode is a comedy — a farce, really — and it works well on that level.
^^ I'm just bugged by it. Star Trek was supposed to be about challenging sci-fi conventions and generally trying to avoid bad cliches, but then they trot in these androids that behave and speak exactly like C-grade '50's era sci-fi.
In both "I, Mudd" and "A Piece Of The Action" there are genuine laughs in them, but at the expense of undermining the credibility of the characters and the their "reality" (the credibility of the world they inhabit). It's just too broad. In counterpoint both "Shore Leave" and to lesser extent "The Trouble With Tribbles" manage to do comedy yet not at the expense of the characters and their reality.
Of course, even when TOS fell down it wasn't boring. There was always wondering what the next
would be. 
In both "I, Mudd" and "A Piece Of The Action" there are genuine laughs in them, but at the expense of undermining the credibility of the characters and the their "reality" (the credibility of the world they inhabit). It's just too broad. In counterpoint both "Shore Leave" and to lesser extent "The Trouble With Tribbles" manage to do comedy yet not at the expense of the characters and their reality.
Of course, even when TOS fell down it wasn't boring. There was always wondering what the next
would be.
Last edited:
Well, seven more to go. Good times.
“The Lights Of Zetar”
“The Cloud Minders”
“The Way To Eden”
“Requiem For Methuselah”
“The Savage Curtain”
“All Our Yesterdays”
“Turnabout Intruder”
The last two are definite '****' or '*****' episodes for very different reasons.
Mark of Gideon:
In the early seventies my parents were met with worried looks and sometimes outright disdain when people found out they had THREE children. (We pre-date Ender's Game by some years, so no, I never called my kid brother "Third".) We lived in Massachusetts and Connecticut so your mileage may have varried in saner places.
At any rate, in the late sixties, early seventies the world was going to end by overpopulation, ice age, and of course Global Thermonuclear War. (The most credible threat, I admit.)
These days the "message" is pretty well ignored and it's just "the one with Kirk alone on the Enterprise". I have to admit that when I was a kid the idea of a whole Enterprise to play on was just about the coolest thing ever.
This is how (I think) people will look at "global warming" message movies forty years from now.
In the early seventies my parents were met with worried looks and sometimes outright disdain when people found out they had THREE children. (We pre-date Ender's Game by some years, so no, I never called my kid brother "Third".) We lived in Massachusetts and Connecticut so your mileage may have varried in saner places.
At any rate, in the late sixties, early seventies the world was going to end by overpopulation, ice age, and of course Global Thermonuclear War. (The most credible threat, I admit.)
These days the "message" is pretty well ignored and it's just "the one with Kirk alone on the Enterprise". I have to admit that when I was a kid the idea of a whole Enterprise to play on was just about the coolest thing ever.
This is how (I think) people will look at "global warming" message movies forty years from now.
^^^Forgetting, of course, that explosive population growth remains a problem. The more people there are the more resources they require with the resultant impacts on environments resulting from meeting those needs. I'm not saying there's an answer to it, but too much of anything, even people, isn't necessarily a good thing.
You are an optimist.Well, seven more to go. Good times.
“The Lights Of Zetar”
“The Cloud Minders”
“The Way To Eden”
“Requiem For Methuselah”
“The Savage Curtain”
“All Our Yesterdays”
“Turnabout Intruder”
The last two are definite '****' or '*****' episodes for very different reasons.
“The Lights Of Zetar” ***
A Starfleet Lieutenant is particularly susceptible to an alien influence.
I was a little surprised by this one since I don't remember really caring for it. Indeed I'm still not that crazy about it, but I'm surprised that it's not as bad as I recall.
There is something rather creepy about the story of this Starfleet Lieutenant beginning to lose herself to the Zetarian life forces. This atmosphere is enhanced by the extensive reuse of music from "Where No Man Has Gone Before."
But there are two things that mar this story for me. The first is Scotty's unprofessional behaviour. Mind you he has a history of being rather weird about women he likes. But the other part that bugs me is Lt. Mira Romaine herself. Granted beauty and appeal is in the eye of the beholder, but she comes across as just so average and with nothing really distinctive about her. And that isn't helped by the actress who portrays her---she has next to no screen presence and little range. And since she is the focal point of the story we're challenged to feel any real empathy or interest for her. As a result the rest of the story doesn't really engage us either.
Lt. Romaine's background struck me as rather different. Apparently she isn't regular starship personnel. The references to her background suggest she has served in primarily planet bound and administrative postings or similarly related. Yet she's apparently not some young green cadet or ensign right out of the Academy and she holds a Lieutenant's rank...although it could also be Lieutenant Junior Grade.
Anyway it's not bad, not poor, but also nothing special or particularly noteworthy either.
A Starfleet Lieutenant is particularly susceptible to an alien influence.
I was a little surprised by this one since I don't remember really caring for it. Indeed I'm still not that crazy about it, but I'm surprised that it's not as bad as I recall.
There is something rather creepy about the story of this Starfleet Lieutenant beginning to lose herself to the Zetarian life forces. This atmosphere is enhanced by the extensive reuse of music from "Where No Man Has Gone Before."
But there are two things that mar this story for me. The first is Scotty's unprofessional behaviour. Mind you he has a history of being rather weird about women he likes. But the other part that bugs me is Lt. Mira Romaine herself. Granted beauty and appeal is in the eye of the beholder, but she comes across as just so average and with nothing really distinctive about her. And that isn't helped by the actress who portrays her---she has next to no screen presence and little range. And since she is the focal point of the story we're challenged to feel any real empathy or interest for her. As a result the rest of the story doesn't really engage us either.
Lt. Romaine's background struck me as rather different. Apparently she isn't regular starship personnel. The references to her background suggest she has served in primarily planet bound and administrative postings or similarly related. Yet she's apparently not some young green cadet or ensign right out of the Academy and she holds a Lieutenant's rank...although it could also be Lieutenant Junior Grade.
Anyway it's not bad, not poor, but also nothing special or particularly noteworthy either.
There is mention of how the planet is shielded against sensor scans, so it's possible that a communicator would be worthless in this situation. Besides, it was probably one of the preconditions the Federation agreed to, that the captain beam down without a communicator, to prevent anybody from listening in, or something equally paranoid (which just adds to the emphasis on the specific coordinates being used). It also follows that they insisted on having complete, and I mean COMFUCKINGPLETE, information on this ship and its captain before agreeing to the meeting, and the clueless Federation bureaucrats being the helpful dolts that they are, gave them complete specs on the Enterprise, Kirk's complete medical history, maybe even have Kirk do a little match.com video from his quarters where he expresses just how excited he is to meeting these oh-so-dreamy Gideons.
In other words, it's a stretch, but not insolvable. The bigger reach is how, on a planet where supposedly there is no place one can go that isn't crowded with people, they managed to find the room to fit in an exact replica of a 947' starship, and keep some mischievous locals from sneaking inside for some quality alone time. Even if they left off the nacelles, that's still quite a lot of real estate being taken up with this con.
In other words, it's a stretch, but not insolvable. The bigger reach is how, on a planet where supposedly there is no place one can go that isn't crowded with people, they managed to find the room to fit in an exact replica of a 947' starship, and keep some mischievous locals from sneaking inside for some quality alone time. Even if they left off the nacelles, that's still quite a lot of real estate being taken up with this con.
Last edited:
What's the source on that?
“Whom Gods Destroy” *
Kirk and Spock are held captive by an insane former starship commander with designs of conquest.
The most succinct assessment of this episode is
I wouldn't add anything to that...** stars
“The Mark Of Gideon” **
Kirk finds himself aboard a completely deserted Enterprise.
Okay, firstly let's acknowledge the good stuff. Generally it's competently acted. However, I really could do without Scotty's exaggerated excitability. In the beginning there is something of a creepy feel to this story. And Ambassador Hodin is perfect at being a bureaucratic putz.
Now with that said it has to be acknowledged that this episode is rife with stupidity. Firstly, can someone explain how an isolationist planet manages to get the plans to exactly duplicate the interior of one of the Federation's best starships?
Secondly, how did Odin really expect to get away with the abduction and injury of a Federation Starfleet Captain???
And then there are simple things. How could Odin and other Gideons not know what physical pain is? If you are a living being with a highly sensitive nervous/sensory system then you will definately have some idea of what physical pain would be even if you have little experience with illness.
I'm also bothered by the idea that an intelligent race could experience such unchecked population control could overrun an entire planet in the way described in the episode. The growing population would likely overextend and thoroughly deplete the planet's natural resources long before people overran the planet surface. If you don't eat you die no matter how good your system is otherwise.
So little of this story makes any sense. It simply asks for too much suspension of disbelief. It may well be a commentary on overpopulation, but it's just so badly exaggerated.
I can't add much to this either. Overpopulation is still relevant (who said it was about bodies shoulder to shoulder...its about impact on the environment), and I've always maintained procreation is such a personal thing that people will always take such an affront if you even suggest any kind of population control that its a problem that will never go away..unless we expand outward into space of course...always the missing element.
The episode is just absurd. *1/2 stars for effort
This one is not so bad...the scary moments...suspenseful. Its somewhat dark, but Scotty is like a teenager. Of all the TOS characters his might be the most inconsistent and badly written. Loved the Memory Alpha idea and the TOS-R improvements. **1/2 stars
RAMA
Last edited:
If memory serves, some of Bjo's Concordance notes.
Star Trek was never above using bad sci-fi clichés. Like the gorgeous but naïve alien babe who’s never heard of kissing, and the handsome hero who’s only too happy to give her lessons (“By Any Other Name”). Or is that a good sci-fi cliché?
Timo, is that you?
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll
