Revisiting ST-TNG...

[RAMA]

"Interface" ***

Laforge uses a new type of probe in the hope of rescuing his mother and her crew.

This was competently done, but it was really about Laforge trying to come to terms with the loss of his mother. The idea of a probe operated by telepresence isn't a new one in science fiction and it was interesting that they tried to depict it here, but how they did it was rather on the cheap because instead of showing us an actual probe they just used Laforge walking around without his visor.

Competently done, but ultimately I didn't find it particularly engaging.

The presentation of telepresence was barely beyond what they have in labs now. They actually did make this technology seem very pedestrian..even Seaquest did it better. Quite a disappointment from a series that usually was on the cutting edge. The plot involving Geordi's mother never rang true and made him look bad. Another case of season 7 trying to shoehorn family into an episode that didn't need it. **1/2 stars

RAMA

 

[Armus]

Someone else mentioned that at this point it feels like the TNG characters are mostly going through the motions, and I pretty much agree with that view.

I recall an issue of Star Trek: The Magazine where one of the writers for the show essentially admitted they were desperate for ideas by season seven, and that's why so many of the episodes featured family members popping up out of nowhere. It definitely feels like they'd run out of steam by this point, and I agree that "Interface" isn't very engaging.

If I recall, Season 7 also suffered because Ron Moore and Brannon Braga took a lot of time off to write Star Trek: Generations, leaving the writing staff shorthanded.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Also, didn't some of the writers leave TNG -> DS9?

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Also, didn't some of the writers leave TNG -> DS9?

Plus ramping up for Voyager.

The inconsistent quality of season 7 wasn't necessarily that they were out of steam, but with the movie, Voyager on the horizon, and DS9 still running by essentially the same crew, it's more a lack of focus than anything I think.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

A command test is not the same thing as someone who has been trained over years to command. Crusher has spent years training to be a physician. Riker and Picard and Kirk and Sisko and others have been trained over years to command. Sulu is a trained and experienced combat officer (as stated in TOS' "Arena").

In "Descent" this whole scenario is based on a stupid idea: leave a skeleton crew of inexperienced crewman aboard in a hostile situation. And remember that there are families aboard as well. If I were Admiral Necheyev I'd have Picard's ass courtmartialed so fast he wouldn't know what hit him.

This this reflects something I've been noticing while revisiting TNG as well as TOS interchangeably. Watching TOS it's quite apparent that the creative team understand something about the military. You get a sense of it in how they write the characters, what they say and what they do. This comes from the fact that many of the creative team likely had military experience either in WW2 or Korea or perhaps just did a stint in the military. We know Roddenberry flew planes in WW2 and, of course, it wasn't long before that he was producing The Lieutenant, a series about the Marine Corps. Granted TOS wasn't strictly like the military as we understand it and the show did take liberties for the sake of drama.

Still TNG never really shows any understanding of military thinking. For the sake of putting everyone in jeopardy they beam practically everyone down to the planet and leave the freaking CMO in command. This isn't a case of someone standing a watch, you're leaving the ship in the hands of an experienced officer in time of crises. That is negligence and maybe even dereliction. It's damned poor judgement and undermines the credibility of the story. If you do something crassly stupid to shatter one's suspension of disbelief then don't blame the viewer if they walk out on you and say to hell with it.

There's another point that bugs me about the ending of "Descent." A lot of folks have vented about Kirk not having checked up on Khan after leaving him on Ceti Alpha 5, but Kirk wasn't obligated to do so. Indeed after reporting in to Starfleet (which he'd have to do since you can't swear everyone aboard to secrecy) he could possibly have been ordered never to approach the planet again. And Khan didn't impress as someone who would expect to be watched over either. I've made my point and will move on because this isn't a TWOK discussion and what a mess that story is.

But what of TNG? Picard set in motion what happened to Hugh and the Borg and look what happened. In truth if they had never seen the Borg ever again then they wouldn't have given it another thought. But they did see the result and yet at the end of the episode then appear to be walking away from the whole thing. Wouldn't you think Picard and in extent the Federation should be involved in trying to help the disconnected Borg? As I see it they're morally obligated to help them.

I also agree that Lore wasn't needed for this story. He was shoehorned in for no good reason just as Crusher was put in command just to give her character something to do. It's all sloppy writing and creatively bereft thinking.

Things are just different in the 24th century, Mr. Warped.

In my time, we have evolved beyond the need for logic.

 

[Warped9]

Things are just different in the 24th century, Mr. Warped.

In my time, we have evolved beyond the need for logic.

 

[Distorted Humor]

"Interface" ***

Laforge uses a new type of probe in the hope of rescuing his mother and her crew.

This was competently done, but it was really about Laforge trying to come to terms with the loss of his mother. The idea of a probe operated by telepresence isn't a new one in science fiction and it was interesting that they tried to depict it here, but how they did it was rather on the cheap because instead of showing us an actual probe they just used Laforge walking around without his visor.

Competently done, but ultimately I didn't find it particularly engaging.

This is one of the few S7 episodes I have seen. I took a nap afterwards, it not that engaging really, you have to have a truly great actor and a good script (Or a great script and a good actor) and while the actor was good, the script was only ok, and that leaves a rather boring episode.

 

[Warped9]

"Gambit" Part I *

Riker finds a missing Picard aboard a ship of renegades.

I made the mistake of watching this episode not long after watching TOS' "The City On The Edge Of Forever." It's like drinking a can of stale beer after enjoying a nice cold glass of Rikard's Red.

In Season 6 they want us to accept that the Captain of the Federation flagship is going to be assigned to a covert operation better suited to a trained intelligence officer. Now they want us to swallow that that same Captain is going to go AWOL for weeks without anyone knowing what he's up to. In a word: bullshit.

Not only is the setup poor, but much of the acting in this is cardboard like and wholly unconvincing. Hardly any nuance to the performances at all. At this point TNG is just doing things by rote and with little feeling or interest---it feels as if they are just checking things to be included off a list. Of course they never miss a chance to load it with a sufficient serving of technobabble. I also thought the alien makeup designs were rather stupid looking.

This really was a tiresome forty-two minutes.


"Gambit" Part II *

The renegades are collecting the parts for an ancient Vulcan weapon.

Part II is just as excruciating as Part I. The boredom was akin to feeling a screwdriver being shoved through my skull. I'll just resort to the old adage if you have nothing good to say then say nothing.

 

[startrekwatcher]

It's not a great two parter but a pretty fun straight up action adventure. TNG rarely did anything with the Vulcans so it was nice to touch on them in this interesting way and I liked the idea of the psionic weapon.

I'd give it 3 stars.

 

[Warped9]

Even as an action-adventure I thought it was plodding. I also thought it was poorly written and the actors basically just phoned their performances in. If Season 6 was generally bland this was plain dull. There was no reason for this to be a two-parter other than they were just trying to fill time and crank it out.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I'm surprised you've made it this far.

I'm a TNG fan, through and through (it was my introduction to Star Trek when I was in my larval state), but it takes some effort to slog through the later stuff. There are certain episodes that I'd be more than inclined to skip when doing a watch-through of the entire series.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Well I haven't seen these for many years so it's only fair that I revisit them. But I can say that through this exercise I'm rediscovering some episodes that I will never look at ever again.

 

[RAMA]

"Gambit" Part I *

Riker finds a missing Picard aboard a ship of renegades.

I made the mistake of watching this episode not long after watching TOS' "The City On The Edge Of Forever." It's like drinking a can of stale beer after enjoying a nice cold glass of Rikard's Red.

In Season 6 they want us to accept that the Captain of the Federation flagship is going to be assigned to a covert operation better suited to a trained intelligence officer. Now they want us to swallow that that same Captain is going to go AWOL for weeks without anyone knowing what he's up to. In a word: bullshit.

Not only is the setup poor, but much of the acting in this is cardboard like and wholly unconvincing. Hardly any nuance to the performances at all. At this point TNG is just doing things by rote and with little feeling or interest---it feels as if they are just checking things to be included off a list. Of course they never miss a chance to load it with a sufficient serving of technobabble. I also thought the alien makeup designs were rather stupid looking.

This really was a tiresome forty-two minutes.


"Gambit" Part II *

The renegades are collecting the parts for an ancient Vulcan weapon.

Part II is just as excruciating as Part I. The boredom was akin to feeling a screwdriver being shoved through my skull. I'll just resort to the old adage if you have nothing good to say then say nothing.

Gambit was one of the two-parters where the second part was much better than the first...I specifically enjoyed the second half of ep 2, where Picard once again gets to use his expertise to help solve the puzzle, and in a neat twist ending...the horrible psionic ultimate weapon turns out to be defeated by peace!! I love this aspect of the episode. There are also a lot of cool bits to the episodes: A rare new "enemy" warship, the tall Klingon in the tiny shuttlecraft, the multitude of aliens and locales, and Picard and Riker as mercenaries. All in all, a rather fun romp.

Pt 1: **** Pt2: ****

RAMA

Edit: My wife watched the episode Deja Q without me the other day, she absolutely loved it. I believe she is now a bigger STNG fan than for any other show. I'm very proud.

RAMA

 

[Ubik]

"Gambit" Part I *

Riker finds a missing Picard aboard a ship of renegades.

I made the mistake of watching this episode not long after watching TOS' "The City On The Edge Of Forever." It's like drinking a can of stale beer after enjoying a nice cold glass of Rikard's Red.

In Season 6 they want us to accept that the Captain of the Federation flagship is going to be assigned to a covert operation better suited to a trained intelligence officer. Now they want us to swallow that that same Captain is going to go AWOL for weeks without anyone knowing what he's up to. In a word: bullshit.

Not only is the setup poor, but much of the acting in this is cardboard like and wholly unconvincing. Hardly any nuance to the performances at all. At this point TNG is just doing things by rote and with little feeling or interest---it feels as if they are just checking things to be included off a list. Of course they never miss a chance to load it with a sufficient serving of technobabble. I also thought the alien makeup designs were rather stupid looking.

This really was a tiresome forty-two minutes.


"Gambit" Part II *

The renegades are collecting the parts for an ancient Vulcan weapon.

Part II is just as excruciating as Part I. The boredom was akin to feeling a screwdriver being shoved through my skull. I'll just resort to the old adage if you have nothing good to say then say nothing.

One star? Really? Man. I leave this thread for a week or so, and when I come back, I find you've gone batty.

 

[RAMA]

"Gambit" Part I *

Riker finds a missing Picard aboard a ship of renegades.

I made the mistake of watching this episode not long after watching TOS' "The City On The Edge Of Forever." It's like drinking a can of stale beer after enjoying a nice cold glass of Rikard's Red.

In Season 6 they want us to accept that the Captain of the Federation flagship is going to be assigned to a covert operation better suited to a trained intelligence officer. Now they want us to swallow that that same Captain is going to go AWOL for weeks without anyone knowing what he's up to. In a word: bullshit.

Not only is the setup poor, but much of the acting in this is cardboard like and wholly unconvincing. Hardly any nuance to the performances at all. At this point TNG is just doing things by rote and with little feeling or interest---it feels as if they are just checking things to be included off a list. Of course they never miss a chance to load it with a sufficient serving of technobabble. I also thought the alien makeup designs were rather stupid looking.

This really was a tiresome forty-two minutes.


"Gambit" Part II *

The renegades are collecting the parts for an ancient Vulcan weapon.

Part II is just as excruciating as Part I. The boredom was akin to feeling a screwdriver being shoved through my skull. I'll just resort to the old adage if you have nothing good to say then say nothing.

One star? Really? Man. I leave this thread for a week or so, and when I come back, I find you've gone batty.

*sigh* Yeah I wondered if we watched the same episode. These 2 episodes actually reminded me a lot of TOS.

RAMA

 

[Distorted Humor]

Been years since I seen Gambit, but I remember it being Ok, nothing great, but I have seen a lot worse. Though 1 star seems harsh as I remember it having some good "Popcorn" fun.

 

[Trekker4747]

But, but, the technobabble! The cliche'd characters for aliens! The bad makeup for aliens!

Sorry, W9, none of those arguments ever hold water for me. As I've said before the technobabble in TNG is rarely used to solve the chief prolem and is mostly "dialogue filler" to make the setting seem more realistic. Someone living in 1920 listening to a radio show about a 21st century group of crime-scene investigators would complain about the "technobabble" when it comes to DNA analysis, enhancing photos and stuff of that kind. The fact that TNG's "technology" isn't real should not change things.

It's the times they live in and the terms mean something to them in the reality of their world and, again, rarely is it used to solve the chief problem. In the Gambit episodes the chief problem(s) is Picard going missing/rogue, what the mercenaries are after, what the relics are for, the problem(s) with the mercenaries and then, finally, the issues of what the relic infact is and what it can do.

That final thing I've the big problem with as the psionic weapon, to me, just didn't make sense or really hold up to the two episodes worth of build-up. I'd probably give these episodes, both, three stars. They're perfectly average for me. On the front of Picard being able to go "rogue" in this manner to pursue a personal quest strikes me as something Kirk did pretty much all of the damn time and is, again, us trying to apply present day military protocol with the "military" protocol in place in TNG's time.

This episode, mostly, affirms that unless otherwise directed Starfleet cpatains and their ships are sent out into space to do whatever and to just stay out of trouble. Probably the biggest problem I have with this episode(s) is once again Riker turning into Picard Light when given the Enterprise and having to have someone kick him in the ass over it. More interesting is seeing Data in command and his handling of Worf's mild insubordination I think it shows how effective Data would be as a CO.

Good episodes for me, the interaction between Picard and Riker on the mercenary ship is worth the price of admission.

 

[RAMA]

It's the times they live in and the terms mean something to them in the reality of their world and, again, rarely is it used to solve the chief problem. In the Gambit episodes the chief problem(s) is Picard going missing/rogue, what the mercenaries are after, what the relics are for, the problem(s) with the mercenaries and then, finally, the issues of what the relic infact is and what it can do.

That final thing I've the big problem with as the psionic weapon, to me, just didn't make sense or really hold up to the two episodes worth of build-up. I'd probably give these episodes, both, three stars. They're perfectly average for me. On the front of Picard being able to go "rogue" in this manner to pursue a personal quest strikes me as something Kirk did pretty much all of the damn time and is, again, us trying to apply present day military protocol with the "military" protocol in place in TNG's time.

The psionic weapon strikes me as an example in STNG of its themes of peace and negotiation before violence...it's hugely ironic that Vulcans of the period were so violent that they could use this weapon on each other with such effectiveness...but now both Vulcans AND humans at least understand when to fight and when not to fight. That makes the otherwise "fun romp" thematically interesting to me.

I don't recall completely here (ok GREAT reason to re-watch the episode..which I haven't in years)but didn't Picard originally go missing...AS planned?

RAMA

 

[Trekker4747]

Picard was presumed vaporized and dead in the opening teaser, the Enterprise, with Riker in command, was then placed on detachted duty to investigate Picard's death, in the process Riker was captured by the mercenaries where he was shocked to find a very much alive Picard on board, who was posing as a roguish mercenary himself. Riker feigned being a roguish Starfleet officer willing to sacrifice his career to help the mercenaries' cause and had secret meetings with Picard occasionally to formulate their plan.

Upon attacking the Enteprise, Riker was "caputred" by the Data and the Enterprise crew where he filled them in on what was happening in order to carry out the last phase of the plan and the Enterprise could intercept the mercenary vessel at Vulcan.

 

[Warped9]

^^ The dialogue at the beginning of Part 1 establishes that Picard had already been missing for an extended period. And Kirk never went AWOL for any period of time. he went missing for one or two times against his will, but he never walked away deliberately.

This may work for some, but it doesn't work for me. I thought it was poorly setup, poorly executed and the payoff was a letdown.