Revisiting ST-TNG...

[startrekwatcher]

When I originally saw Sub Rosa I didn't much like it but over the years it has grown on me. It still isn't very good and the fact that Ronin turns out to be an alien lifeform is disappointing--I was wanting something better. But I do like the atmosphere--it is spooky and I enjoy the Celtic feel through out the episode, the fog materializing on the bridge, the caretaker was a hoot. I also loved Deanna/Bev's girl talk in Ten Forward.

I'd give it 2 stars out of 4.

 

[number6]

Sub Rosa is vomit inducing. Worse than Shades of Grey.

 

[Lord Garth]

The last time I watched "Sub Rosa" was 17 years ago. Partially intentional.

 

[number6]

Same here. It was woefully bad.

 

[Biffette]

I always refer to it as "The one where Beverly messes around with her dead grandmother's sex candle."

 

[RAMA]

The holodeck would encase each individual in their own "holo"-holodeck and would use a combination of gravity, forcefields, projections and the "treadmill effect" to give each person the sense that they are interacting with the others. To an outside observer, us, this would all be put together to look like a seamless whole.

Uh...yeah.

Ok so remember, this is almost 100 years after a particular TV show in the 23rd century that said you can beam people to and from the ship..something that may require infinite power and quantify all subatomic particles in the body...

It seems a little late to be complaining about the principles of the holodeck. With some minor changes, the premise of the technology was pretty firmly established in the first season of the show. Nothing dramatically different about "Homeward" as far as I can tell.

Not the most engaging episode in the world, though.

Yeah hilarious..he accepts the holodeck for 160 odd episodes then complains when the illusion are too real. Yikes..

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

"Sub Rosa" *

Crusher becomes involved with her grandmother's lover.

I don't think it would matter how you describe this episode, it's still going to sound bad. And it is. Trek meets spooky Harlequin Romance novel.

This was excruciating. Can I just leave it at that?

Excruciating may be too kind, not quite to the level of Voyager's worst episodes, but this was bad. **

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

Yeah hilarious..he accepts the holodeck for 160 odd episodes then complains when the illusion are too real. Yikes..

RAMA

I've never liked how they kept going back to the idea of people stuck in the holodeck while something has gone wrong with it. It was okay way back with the first couple of times like "The Big Goodbye' but by the time "A Fistful Of Datas" comes along it's gotten way old. I suppose it just never really bothered me enough before, but in "Homeward" it just doesn't work for me anymore.

 

[RAMA]

Yeah hilarious..he accepts the holodeck for 160 odd episodes then complains when the illusion are too real. Yikes..

RAMA

I've never liked how they kept going back to the idea of people stuck in the holodeck while something has gone wrong with it. It was okay way back with the first couple of times like "The Big Goodbye' but by the time "A Fistful Of Datas" comes along it's gotten way old. I suppose it just never really bothered me enough before, but in "Homeward" it just doesn't work for me anymore.

Ehh..it works better for me in Homeward than it does in Fistful of Datas.

RAMA

 

[Noname Given]

Yeah hilarious..he accepts the holodeck for 160 odd episodes then complains when the illusion are too real. Yikes..

RAMA

I've never liked how they kept going back to the idea of people stuck in the holodeck while something has gone wrong with it. It was okay way back with the first couple of times like "The Big Goodbye' but by the time "A Fistful Of Datas" comes along it's gotten way old. I suppose it just never really bothered me enough before, but in "Homeward" it just doesn't work for me anymore.

Soprry for me - even in The Big Goodbye (and many of the other 'Holodeck Malfunction' episodes; the fact that cutting power and just turning it off was either dangerous/deadly to the occupants; or worse somehow impossible was just insane. You're telling me in the 'enlightened 24th century' a govenment willing allows it's citizens to use an entertainment device that can be deadly if turned off at a bad time?

 

[Warped9]

^ Certainly can't argue with that.


“Lower Decks” *****

Junior officers strive for promotion in the midst of a covert mission.

I remember liking this episode way back initially although I did have some reservations. Now I like it even more.

I like all the junior characters introduced, and I think it would have been nice to see them again. Of course we had seen Nurse Ogawa before as well as Sito, but Lavelle and Taurik were interesting new faces. We're also introduced to someone who works Ten Forward and he's treated as if he's been there for quite some time. He's likable enough, but it was a bit odd not seeing Guinan in the role.

I particularly liked the young Vulcan, Taurik. In his own way he made me imagine what a young Ensign Spock could have been like. I also quite liked the interaction between Worf and Sito and how it made Worf seem more accessible than we might have once imagined.

I also appreciate that the episode chose to end on something of a downbeat. It impressed me as more credible and nuanced.

I have to say that this has been one of my favourite episodes in the past two seasons.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I was never a big fan of Lower Decks--I have always hated --no matter what show it was--when they sidelined the regular cast and focused on guest stars. I know I'm in the minority in not caring about the grunt on a starship because over the years I have read that a lot of fans clamor for it.

It is still a good episode just not a great one--the ending is quite sad when Sito dies. The episode just struck me as yet another sign the show was running out of steam. 3 stars.

 

[Warped9]

I was never a big fan of Lower Decks--I have always hated --no matter what show it was--when they sidelined the regular cast and focused on guest stars. I know I'm in the minority in not caring about the grunt on a starship because over the years I have read that a lot of fans clamor for it.

It is still a good episode just not a great one--the ending is quite sad when Sito dies. The episode just struck me as yet another sign the show was running out of steam. 3 stars.

If I hadn't cared for the junior characters introduced then I would have been inclined to agree with you. But I thought they introduced them decently and the actors gave us some credible performances. I felt they were reasonably well rounded characters rather than cardboard caricatures and I happened to like them.

I also thought they reflected something of what a lot of people feel when they interact with older, more experienced and largely unknown (to them) superiors. And you don't have to have been in the military to experience something similar.

These characters were coming of age and leaving their Academy selves behind and stepping into real responsibilities and service. They were learning to become officers.

 

[RAMA]

^ Certainly can't argue with that.


“Lower Decks” *****

Junior officers strive for promotion in the midst of a covert mission.

I remember liking this episode way back initially although I did have some reservations. Now I like it even more.

I like all the junior characters introduced, and I think it would have been nice to see them again. Of course we had seen Nurse Ogawa before as well as Sito, but Lavelle and Taurik were interesting new faces. We're also introduced to someone who works Ten Forward and he's treated as if he's been there for quite some time. He's likable enough, but it was a bit odd not seeing Guinan in the role.

I particularly liked the young Vulcan, Taurik. In his own way he made me imagine what a young Ensign Spock could have been like. I also quite liked the interaction between Worf and Sito and how it made Worf seem more accessible than we might have once imagined.

I also appreciate that the episode chose to end on something of a downbeat. It impressed me as more credible and nuanced.

I have to say that this has been one of my favourite episodes in the past two seasons.

A very good episode that doesn't quite make it on my "great" list but this is a good example of season 7 stretching its boundaries just a little. A trip through the tertiary characters was much needed. **** 1/2

I was never a big fan of Lower Decks--I have always hated --no matter what show it was--when they sidelined the regular cast and focused on guest stars. I know I'm in the minority in not caring about the grunt on a starship because over the years I have read that a lot of fans clamor for it.

It is still a good episode just not a great one--the ending is quite sad when Sito dies. The episode just struck me as yet another sign the show was running out of steam. 3 stars.

Done judiciously these episodes can be very refreshing. I disagree with your conclusion though, I think season 6 was good, and the downgrade in quality in season 7 was prob bound to happen, there is no pattern set for diminishing quality however and it would have taken another season to see if season 7 carried on or was a fluke. Even so season 7 had some episodes for the ages.

RAMA

 

[Harvey]

I like "Lower Decks" quite a bit. Unlike "A View from the Gallery" from Babylon 5, it hits all the right notes and nails the proper tone. And although Taurik never appears again, the same actor plays what is essentially the same character on several episodes of Star Trek: Voyager, only there he is called Vorik.

 

[Warped9]

The other thing that struck me about "Lower Decks" is the way Worf seemed genuinely troubled by the loss of Sito. This and the way he stuck up for her with Riker and how he spoke to her in exercise class. I thought this was a nice look at what kind of leader Worf had become. He was exhibiting the best parts of being human and Klingon.

 

[Ubik]

I find it interesting, Warped9, that you like this episode as much as you do. I agree with you completely, of course - it is certainly one of the best episodes of season 6-7, but....well, it's not really space adventure, is it? I mean, the same plot could have been done on a submarine, or during a WW2 series. This sort of thing, I think, has bothered you in previous episodes, but not here. I wonder why that is. (I'm not being facetious - I genuinely want to know. I actually have no argument with you because, as I said, I also love this episode.)

 

[Warped9]

I find it interesting, Warped9, that you like this episode as much as you do. I agree with you completely, of course - it is certainly one of the best episodes of season 6-7, but....well, it's not really space adventure, is it? I mean, the same plot could have been done on a submarine, or during a WW2 series. This sort of thing, I think, has bothered you in previous episodes, but not here. I wonder why that is. (I'm not being facetious - I genuinely want to know. I actually have no argument with you because, as I said, I also love this episode.)

There's a fine line, I suppose. This story was about "coming of age" so to speak as well as different perspectives depending on position. It wasn't about family drama so much and there were ideas here albeit not scientific or technological ones.

Candidly when I look at this I can't help but reflect that I would have liked to have seen something like this during TOS.

 

[SchwEnt]

I am also quite surprised, Warped9.
I thought for sure you'd ding "Lower Decks" as a non-space adventure eps, another listless boring character piece. And there you go, giving it top marks no less. Surprising.

But that's okay. I quite liked it myself, and it's generally considered one of the better eps anyway. It is a kind of timeless story that can be told in most any setting or series.

Only one factor that irked me--
Geordi and Taurik scorching the shuttlecraft with phaser fire. Taurik is firing phaser blasts with intent to damage, live fire, and Geordi is standing two feet from the target in the line of fire. Ridiculously unsafe. Where is their basic weapons training?

 

[Warped9]

Only one factor that irked me--
Geordi and Taurik scorching the shuttlecraft with phaser fire. Taurik is firing phaser blasts with intent to damage, live fire, and Geordi is standing two feet from the target in the line of fire. Ridiculously unsafe. Where is their basic weapons training?

Agreed. And I always that that a few shots from a phaser rifle would hardly be the same as shots from an actual ship. I don't think that really would have fooled anyone.