Revisiting ST-TNG...

[tomalak301]

I actually think it would have been better had it been the Suliban. I mean one of the criticisms with the whole Temporal cold war was that it really didn't go anywhere, yet I think the reason for that was because they didn't really do anything with it in the first place. Having a species we know from the first episode do something like that with Earth for kind of the same reasons as the Xindi (Just do a little readjusting) and I think it would have made for a much more endearing story.

Not that I didn't like the Xindi because at the end of the season I actually did. Only problem is it really took a while to get there and it was running on people's patience.

 

[Ubik]

Wow. We've totally derailed poor Warped9's thread. Oh well - it'll come back on track with his next review. Poor guy - he's got to sit through not only a silly debate about an awful television show (Enterprise), but also two horrid TNG episodes in a row. (Perfect Mate and Imaginary Friend). I don't envy him.

 

[Trekker4747]

Ummm, isn't Perfect Mate a good episode?

 

[Ubik]

Ummm, isn't Perfect Mate a good episode?

Hah. We just can't agree on anything around here, can we?

Admittedly, it gets better when it leaves the Ferengi and starts dealing with Picard. But still - from a feminist perspective - it is rather offensive, isn't it?

Anyway, I, Borg and Inner Light are coming up, and I cross my fingers that we're all sane enough to at least agree on how wonderful those two episodes are, yes?

 

[BillJ]

Anyway, I, Borg and Inner Light are coming up, and I cross my fingers that we're all sane enough to at least agree on how wonderful those two episodes are, yes?

I loathe I, Borg and the Inner Light puts me to sleep.

 

[Warped9]

It hasn't been boring or silly. It's been enlightening.

Everyone brings a different level of expectations and levels of acceptance to a story. If a story's setting and "logic" if you will has been properly set up then you can accept it and get on with watching the story. But if for whatever reason a story hasn't been well set up then you could well have a problem accepting the logic of everything that follows. And different folks will have different measures of what is or isn't credible.

Yes, it's fiction, but good fiction lets you believe in it as if it were possible. Nowhere does it say you have to accept something unconditionally.

Over in the TOS forum I'm concurrently revisiting TOS and there have already been some episodes that I think are fantastic even though strictly speaking they're not perfect and there were some technical missteps in them. But the setup has already been well established so you're able to let those missteps slide.

I had a hard time believing in "Conundrum's" setup so the rest of the story suffered in credibility for me. It still had polished performances, but I couldn't believe in it anymore.

 

[Warped9]

"The Cost Of Living" *

Llwaxana Troi befriends Alexander while preparing for her wedding and while a strange substance is turning the ship into goo.

The description of this episode alone is enough indication that this was stupid. Once again with bad soap opera. I mean can any real Trek fan honestly care about anything in this episode? Garbage.

I don't care that Worf is struggling with his kid. I don't care that Llwaxana is getting married. I don't care about some alien goo eating through the ship. I certainly don't care for Deanna Troi's parenting advice. I don't care about any of this bullshit.

 

[Harvey]

Bad soap opera? Nah. The production values are too good, and it is hardly a serial. No, what you have hear is a bad family drama episode mixed with some bad comedy. One star is being generous.

Two more episodes until something watchable in "I, Borg." Followed by the watchable "The Next Phase" and the classic "The Inner Light." Definitely an uneven year for NextGen, though. Is the sixth season better? It's been so long since I've seen much of the series outside of the odd episode.

 

[Warped9]

"The Perfect Mate" ***

Picard must work closely with a woman promised to another man to end an interplanetary war.

In all honesty I can't call this good although there are parts to it I somewhat like---namely the scenes between Picard and the metamorph Kemala. But beyond that--- If it wasn't for those scenes then this would be hell, and a poor one at that. Anytime you mix in Ferengi, particularly the stupidly obnoxious kind, the intelligence level of a story falls right through the floor. Even with the scenes I liked I could be being generous here.

Since the initial viewing so many years ago I couldn't help compare this with TOS' "Elaan Of Troyius." That story was far from perfect, but it did have energy and it did have humour. It also felt more as a whole. TNG's effort feels like two stories poorly mixed into one. The humorous story with the Ferengi is jarring alongside the tone of Picard's interactions with Kemala.

 

[Trekker4747]

- from a feminist perspective - it is rather offensive, isn't it?

Well, yeah. But I think that was sort-of the point. It was making a "statement" of sorts against arranged marriages where a woman is expected to be tailored to suit a man's needs and in some cultures women are raised as pretty much a blank-slate on which a man's "needs" are pressed into for an arranged marriage.

The point of the story is how Picard handles this situation, he wants the Metamorph (or whatever she was) to be her own person in spite of her inante desires to bend to his needs. The episode wasn't endorsing or suporting such types of arranged marriages but, I think, showing how shallow they really are as the relationship Picard develops with her is much more of a natural one.

 

[Ubik]

- from a feminist perspective - it is rather offensive, isn't it?

Well, yeah. But I think that was sort-of the point. It was making a "statement" of sorts against arranged marriages where a woman is expected to be tailored to suit a man's needs and in some cultures women are raised as pretty much a blank-slate on which a man's "needs" are pressed into for an arranged marriage.

The point of the story is how Picard handles this situation, he wants the Metamorph (or whatever she was) to be her own person in spite of her inante desires to bend to his needs. The episode wasn't endorsing or suporting such types of arranged marriages but, I think, showing how shallow they really are as the relationship Picard develops with her is much more of a natural one.

See, that's where you're wrong. Their relationship is not natural at all. She simply becomes the perfect mate for Picard. The episode is not sexist because it features that character; it's sexist because it DOES endorse her existence. Picard can be all high and mighty about how against this culture and her slavery he is, until she becomes HIS perfect mate, and then suddenly, bam, it becomes okay. He doesn't want her to be her own person. He wants her to be the way she is when she's with him. She isn't being "herself" when she's with him; she's being Picard's perfect wife.

The right thing for this episode to have done would be for Picard NOT to fall for it, for Picard to refuse to spend time with her. That he caves in, and spends time with her, and falls in love with her, absolutely endorses, encourages, applauds her existence as a male fantasy. She is the writers' male sexual fantasy, too.

Also, in the end, when he allows her to go back to her people and marry that jerk - well, that argues for a kind of cultural and ethical relativism that makes me very uncomfortable. It's like saying, well, in some countries, women are slaves, and we don't have the right to judge or interfere. Of all times for Picard to actually try to stick to the prime directive, THIS is when he does it? Bah.

 

[Warped9]

"Imaginary Friend" *

A little girl's imaginary friend becomes real while the ship explores an unusual nebula.

Neither of the plots in this episode interested me. And isn't it interesting how many alien entities can mimic human behaviour so well? They touch your mind and instantly understand everything.

This just doesn't work for me. And the second half of this season is really dragging.

 

[Tomalak]

Yeah I remember that season being a huge drag. Season six is much more fun, if you can make it.

 

[Warped9]

"I, Borg" ****

The Enterprise rescues an injured Borg who learns a sense of self during his recovery.

I'm waffling somewhat on this one. It's a decent story, but it's told in such a low key manner that you could be forgiven for thinking not much of consequence is happening. In the end I'm nudging it up to good because it's such a huge step up from the previous batch of disappointing episodes.

I do have to say that even after Hugh develops a sense of identity I'm still not sure Picard did the right thing. Of course later we learn that Hugh's sense of identity and individuality did infect the collective, but they still regrouped sufficiently to attack Earth in First Contact. But as far as I'm concerned the is the last of this decent Borg stories.

 

[BillJ]

"I, Borg" ****

Hated this one with a passion. Continued the general wussification of Starfleet in general and Picard in particular.

 

[Trekker4747]

But as far as I'm concerned the is the last of this decent Borg stories.

I'd quibble and say that "First Contact" (the movie) did a good job with them and I think even the Enterprise episode dealing with them was good but, yeah, this was the last actually good episode that dealt with the Borg.

I've never agreed with the idea that Picard should have used the "virus" to destroy the Borg. Genocide strikes me as something that's well outside of what Starfleet or The Federation should want to be a party to. I mean you're talking about genocide, destroying an entire group of beings simply because of differences in lifestyles. (Or whatever you want to call it.)

Yeah, the Borg have committed genocide themselves and done devastating things but doing it back to them hardly seems like the best course of action. It's similar to me what happens in Silicone Avatar when Picard mourns on the senseless killing of the Crystalline Entity it wasn't a "killing machine" it was just another being with a different sense of life. It was killing to subsist, not to destroy. Same argument could be made for the Borg they "believe" what they are doing is good for the beings they capture and assimilate. Because their "values" clash with the Federations should hardly sentence them to genocide. How would other races, enemies to the Federation, look at that? "Well, gee, they just wiped out an entire pretty much because they felt like it!"

Picard made the right call, IMHO, in this episode.

 

[BillJ]

Picard made the right call, IMHO, in this episode.

I'd have eradicated them and not thought twice about it.

 

[Anwar]

It's a moot point, since it wouldn't have worked. The Collective would've just cut off Hugh's ship from the Collective.

In fact, they might've been alarmed at the Feds for trying to do something like this an launched a REAL invasion of the Federation with multiple vessels, destroying them utterly. So by doing nothing and letting Hugh's own individuality eliminate that one ship as a threat (well, lessen their threat anyways) Picard probably saved more lives. Escalation and all that.

 

[BillJ]

It's a moot point, since it wouldn't have worked. The Collective would've just cut off Hugh's ship from the Collective.

No offense... but if Data says it's gonna work, I'll take his recommendation over yours any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[Anwar]

And we saw later on, that something of a similar line of thought (the individuality meme) DID infect Hugh's ship and all it did was incapacitate their one ship NOT the Collective as a whole.

Hell, are we to assume that Data put the entire Collective to "sleep" in BOBW or just that one Cube? Because both it and Hugh's vessel would be "linked" to the Collective in the same way.