Revisiting DS9...

[GNDN]

I didn't forget about Worf (nor do I discount O'Brien's and Keiko's presence as persistent familiar faces). Worf seemed to be more a matter of a popular character, who had seen a fair amount of growth on TNG, being given a proper new chapter on DS9.

Does this shrink the Universe once again? Perhaps. But as mentioned, Worf was a character that did fit the DS9 dynamic rather well, and his presence was not simply a case of a singular ratings-grabbing event. His introduction was made plausible and his appearance, to me, was welcome.

 

[TheGodBen]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. For me her character (whomever you want to blame it on) ruined the show to a point that I quit tuning in on a regular basis. I could have absorbed her as a minor or recurring character but not as the XO being featured every episode.

That's fair enough, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I just don't understand why you think Nana Visitor was a bad actress for complaining a lot when she was playing a character that complained a lot. That's like calling Leonard Nimoy a bad actor because Spock barely showed any emotions.

As for Q-Less, it's a prime example of what's wrong with season 1. I wouldn't say that it's awful, there's far worse to come (even during the great seasons), but it's an episode that could have worked on TNG yet it somehow ended up on DS9 instead.

 

[TrekAlliance92]

I really like "Q-Less," actually, and its an episode I revisit often. It's fun, I like the moving-station-jeopardy angle, and it's a very Trek-style episode. Better than some other dull Q episodes like say "True Q" or "Tapestry." I'd have loved to see Q back on DS9 again.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I've been happing around the first couple of seasons recently, because I don't rewatch them as often as the later episodes. You can tell by handling the crappy DVD cases. The first 3 seasons are tight and newish. The latter four are loose and season 6 is falling apart.

Anyway, DS9 took a giant leap forward when Ira Behr took control after Michael Piller stepped down. The technobabble was severely curtailed there were no real "let's lean on TNG stuff" for stories any more. However, what I didn't really enjoy was the staff's penchant for "adapting" movies for their plots. "Let's do Casablanca. Let's do The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Let's do Rio Bravo." It seemed like they weren't creating original stories as much as just consciously reworking their favorite movies.

 

[DonIago]

Eh, if it's redone -well- I'm willing to give it a pass.

Plus, for people who haven't seen the original inspirations, seeing the DS9 adaptations can make them more interested in seeing the source material. That's not a bad thing.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I've been happing around the first couple of seasons recently, because I don't rewatch them as often as the later episodes. You can tell by handling the crappy DVD cases. The first 3 seasons are tight and newish. The latter four are loose and season 6 is falling apart.

Anyway, DS9 took a giant leap forward when Ira Behr took control after Michael Piller stepped down. The technobabble was severely curtailed there were no real "let's lean on TNG stuff" for stories any more. However, what I didn't really enjoy was the staff's penchant for "adapting" movies for their plots. "Let's do Casablanca. Let's do The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Let's do Rio Bravo." It seemed like they weren't creating original stories as much as just consciously reworking their favorite movies.

Adapting stories was nothing knew in Star Trek at the time of TNG either. For example, in TOS:

Balance of Terror = The Enemy Below (total adaptation)
The Doomsday Machine = Moby Dick (partial adaptation)
​

Note that these are widely considered to be among the greatest episodes.

By the way, for the record, I assume you mean

We'll Always Have Paris = Casablanca (partial adaptation)
A Fistful of Datas = Rio Bravo (loose adaptation)
​

Which episode was inspired by The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance?

Don't forget that in some cases authors adapted their own material to make an episode. For example, TAS: The Slaver Weapon and TNG: Tin Man.

Now, so it was done in some cases. So what? You're going to have to come up with many, many more examples to demonstrate that adapting previous works was a wide spread pattern, and furthermore that it resulted in poor quality episodes, in any series.

 

[Ubik]

Originality is meaningless. Neither Sophocles nor Shakespeare ever invented a single original story. (Wait - sorry. Shakespeare invented one: The Tempest.) Neither did Gene Roddenberry, for that matter. If a story is told well, then it's a success.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I know true originality is almost extinct, but it just seems a little off that they would start with "let's do my favorite movie" premises as often as they did.

CorporateCaptain: I was talking about DS9 not TNG. And I never said it resulted in poor quality episodes. I don't have to list them, just crack open the DS9 Companion and read. They cheerfully cop to each one of them. I just found the number surprising.

Either way, that aside, I still enjoyed the series more in the latter part than at the start.

 

[SchwEnt]

Assuming there is very little originality left, most every story has already been told, to some degree. Most everything will be derivative of something done earlier.

Is it better or worse if any eps is a riff off of some earlier movie, or based on a Shakespeare play, or reminiscent of some novel, or a retelling of an ancient fable?
Homage or rip-off? Shakespeare, yes. James Bond, no?

 

[Canadave]

I really like "Q-Less," actually, and its an episode I revisit often. It's fun, I like the moving-station-jeopardy angle, and it's a very Trek-style episode. Better than some other dull Q episodes like say "True Q" or "Tapestry." I'd have loved to see Q back on DS9 again.

"True Q," sure, but "Tapestry?" That's one of my favourite Q episodes.

 

[Warped9]

“Dax” ***

Jadzia Dax is accused of a crime committed by the symbiote's previous host.

This is certainly nothing amazing, but it wasn't bad or really even poor. I admit that I never warmed to the character of Jadzia Dax or for the way Terry Farrell played her, but this episode was more about the idea of what a Trill symbiotic relationship was, and it's also something of a crime story.

Neither part of the story is "wow" in of itself, but somehow it all added up to something that was watchable even if not riveting.

 

[Ubik]

But you've missed the point again, I think. This episode isn't about Jadzia at all - it's about Sisko's relationship with Curzon. How do you deal with learning new, unsavory things about a friend who is, in some ways, dead? How do you forgive them? How does that affect Sisko's current relationship with the "new" Dax? I think the episode is a very subtle and interesting sci-fi discussion about how exactly the Trill personality works, from one host to the next, and I think it's one of the highlights of the first season. Curzon is a fascinating character, all the more compelling for his absence.

 

[Warped9]

But you've missed the point again, I think. This episode isn't about Jadzia at all - it's about Sisko's relationship with Curzon. How do you deal with learning new, unsavory things about a friend who is, in some ways, dead? How do you forgive them? How does that affect Sisko's current relationship with the "new" Dax? I think the episode is a very subtle and interesting sci-fi discussion about how exactly the Trill personality works, from one host to the next, and I think it's one of the highlights of the first season. Curzon is a fascinating character, all the more compelling for his absence.

No, I didn't miss anything. Maybe I've just seen a lot more television than you have, like forty some years worth. Sisko knew Curzon and he knew him well enough that when the truth was revealed Sisko isn't really surprised. Sisko would have been more surprised if Curzon Dax had actually been guilty of murder and treason. But Sisko knew Curzon well enough that he thought that highly unlikely.

Bottom line is although it's watchable this episode doesn't tell us much more than we already knew...and it is just okay.

 

[Canadave]

I don't say this often when discussing post-TOS Trek, but... I agree with Warped9. Yeah, "Dax" is average. It's not great, it's not terrible, but it is watchable.

 

[Lord Garth]

I felt bad for Sisko. He was in a real bind. Because he coudln't get Dax to admit to what she was protecting, Sisko had to pursue an argument he knew was desperate by saying Curzon Dax is not the same person as Jadzia Dax when the answer was 50% yes.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

“Dax” ***

Jadzia Dax is accused of a crime committed by the symbiote's previous host.

This is certainly nothing amazing, but it wasn't bad or really even poor. I admit that I never warmed to the character of Jadzia Dax or for the way Terry Farrell played her, but this episode was more about the idea of what a Trill symbiotic relationship was, and it's also something of a crime story.

Neither part of the story is "wow" in of itself, but somehow it all added up to something that was watchable even if not riveting.

It was decent. Farrell's acting was not what it could have been considering the Sisko-Dax dynamic that was supposed to be at the center of it, though. The other major missed opportunity was to get at the nature of the symbiont. They asked about what the humanoid hosts were like pre-joining, but never asked for the perspective of the symbiont. It would've been a challenge to write, but it would've added a TON to the Trill.

Oddly enough, it was the Bajoran judge and her no-nonsense attitude that I liked the most, of all the characters. What did you think of her?

 

[Warped9]

Oddly enough, it was the Bajoran judge and her no-nonsense attitude that I liked the most, of all the characters. What did you think of her?

Agreed. I recognized the actress (from a TNG episode "The Survivors"), but don't recall her name. She was the most interesting part of the episode.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Here's what Memory Alpha has to say about the actress:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Anne_Haney

 

[Alex1939]

William Shatner was brought in to replace Jeffrey Hunter, but the fact that Kirk was very different from Pike wasn't because of the acting, it was down to the writing.

Uh, no. I'd say the acting played a pretty huge role.

Diana Muldaur was brought in to replace Gates McFadden, but the fact that Pulaski was very different from Crusher wasn't because of the acting, it was down to the writing. Jeri Ryan was brought in to replace Jennifer Lien, but fact that Seven was very different from Kes wasn't because of the acting, it was down to the writing.

You are basically saying acting is meaningless its all about the writing of the character and that's pure bullshit.

I've seen the complete series in the years since it went off the air. Just never warmed to her.

I generally agree. Sisko, Dax, Worf, Garak, O'brien and many of the recurring villains make DS9 for me.

 

[tomalak301]

Here's what Memory Alpha has to say about the actress:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Anne_Haney

I think she was also in Liar Liar, which I was watching tonight. Really liked her as the Judge in this episode. As for the episode itself, the more I see it the more it's not really about Jadzia but just the Dax as a whole. I would have liked to see Jadzia a bit more stronger than she was though and actually say a few more lines, but it was a decent first season show.