Revisiting DS9...

[tomalak301]

Nice to see you're moving onto DS9 Warped. While I disagreed with many of your TNG reviews (And to be fair, agreed with a lot of them too ), the threads were good reads and never turned to Caous. I appreciated the respectful manner in which that thread was handled and look forward to following along in this thread. Some thoughts on the episodes you've mentioned:

The Emissary

This is a fine premiere, much better than Encounter at Farpoint, but I think as a personal preference, I like Caretaker just a tad better. Maybe it was based on pacing, but there were parts of this episode I found slow and too cerebral for my tastes. I have grown to really appreciate it over the years though.

A Man Alone

This wasn't a bad episode, but it sounded like they got someone else to portray Odo, and not Rene. It just didn't sound like him at all.

Babel

Only thing I liked about Babel was the jibberish. Must be hard lines to memorize but it was eerie here.

Like I said, looking forward to following along yet another review thread.

 

[Ubik]

“Babel” **

A dormant Bajoran device releases an incapacitating virus aboard the station.

This is competent, but ultimately unengaging. Part of the problem is that while an aphasia virus is conceptually interesting the way it manifests itself doesn't come across as particularly menacing. Yes, it could incapacitate a large number of people rather quickly, but the jeopardy isn't really apparent here. There's no real sense of escalating tension in this story until the last few moments and then I wasn't really that interested. This is a bottle show where there is no threat from the outside to complicate matters and thus lacks yet another layer of tension.

There was a conceptually interesting story idea here, but they don't pull it off well enough.

While I remember these episodes I'm still a little disappointed that what I remember hasn't been challenged and nothing has yet matched the goodness of the pilot episode. Hopefully soon.

We told you the first season was rocky. It's very bipolar - it alternates between mediocre TNG-type jeopardy episodes and good-to-fantastic Cardassian/Bajoran themed episodes. By the end of the first season, those jeopardy episodes had been more or less dropped entirely, and the series had discovered its true strengths. In the mean time, though, be forewarned that the Kira-centred Bajoran/Cardassian episodes this season are far, far superior to the TNG-lite jeopardy episodes.

That said, there are still at least 4 or 5 absolutely fantastic episodes this season.

 

[MacLeod]

Still overall S1 of DSN is better than S1 of TNG

 

[GNDN]

"Babel" is a fun guilty pleasure for me. Love Quark and Odo in this.

QUARK: Food. Dabo. Drinks. Money. Hand. Mine. Give.
You... Gold... Owe... ME!!!



Clearly not the most inspired bottle-show, but also had some nice Sisko/Jake moments and Kira was very strong as well. It's the character touches that keep me interested.

 

[Ubik]

"Babel" is a fun guilty pleasure for me. Love Quark and Odo in this.

QUARK: Food. Dabo. Drinks. Money. Hand. Mine. Give.
You... Gold... Owe... ME!!!



Clearly not the most inspired bottle-show, but also had some nice Sisko/Jake moments and Kira was very strong as well. It's the character touches that keep me interested.

It's funny, I was going to mention precisely that scene and those lines - the episode is mediocre, sure, but that Quark moment is laugh-out-loud funny.

 

[Canadave]

"Babel" is a fun guilty pleasure for me. Love Quark and Odo in this.

QUARK: Food. Dabo. Drinks. Money. Hand. Mine. Give.
You... Gold... Owe... ME!!!



Clearly not the most inspired bottle-show, but also had some nice Sisko/Jake moments and Kira was very strong as well. It's the character touches that keep me interested.

It's funny, I was going to mention precisely that scene and those lines - the episode is mediocre, sure, but that Quark moment is laugh-out-loud funny.

Yeah, that's one of those Quark moments that makes the whole thing worth it. Much like the end of "Meridian"...

 

[BillJ]

I was going to follow along with the rewatching of DS9. But the thought of watching Nana Visitor trying to act killed any desire I had.

 

[Canadave]

^ I honestly don't understand people who don't think Visitor is a good actress. IMO, she's pretty much the only regular who nails her character from the word "go," with the obvious exception of Meany. Yeah, she can be abrasive, but that's because Major Kira is an abrasive person. She was one of the highlights of the show in the first season.

 

[BillJ]

^ I honestly don't understand people who don't think Visitor is a good actress. IMO, she's pretty much the only regular who nails her character from the word "go," with the obvious exception of Meany. Yeah, she can be abrasive, but that's because Major Kira is an abrasive person. She was one of the highlights of the show in the first season.

From the moment I watched Emissary, I knew I'd have a tough time staying invested in the series due solely to her presence. There's being "abrasive" then there's just coming across as plain "whiney", which Visitor did in spades.

 

[Warped9]

“Captive Pursuit” ****

O'Brien befriends the first alien to cross over from the Gamma Quadrant.

While not perfect this is a BIG step up from the previous few episodes. First off I really like the look of the Tosk, a rare instance of a humanoid that actually looks alien as opposed to just another prosthetic forehead. I quite like how everything is turned on its head and Tosk isn't a wanted being on the run in the usual sense---he's expected to elude his pursuers so they can enjoy the hunt. The harder he is to catch---if they can---they more they like it. And O'Brien's solution is to give everyone what they want most: Tosk is free to continue his being chased and Tosk's hunters can continue the hunt they enjoy so much.

I really have to wonder how far ahead the Dominion War was conceived because we'll never see Tosk and his pursuers again and how did they manage to pursue their activities in Domimion dominated space?

A decent science fiction story and a big step up.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ Cool transporter effect.

 

[Ubik]

“Captive Pursuit” ****

O'Brien befriends the first alien to cross over from the Gamma Quadrant.

While not perfect this is a BIG step up from the previous few episodes. First off I really like the look of the Tosk, a rare instance of a humanoid that actually looks alien as opposed to just another prosthetic forehead. I quite like how everything is turned on its head and Tosk isn't a wanted being on the run in the usual sense---he's expected to elude his pursuers so they can enjoy the hunt. The harder he is to catch---if they can---they more they like it. And O'Brien's solution is to give everyone what they want most: Tosk is free to continue his being chased and Tosk's hunters can continue the hunt they enjoy so much.

I really have to wonder how far ahead the Dominion War was conceived because we'll never see Tosk and his pursuers again and how did they manage to pursue their activities in Domimion dominated space?

A decent science fiction story and a big step up.

It is very good. I hope you enjoyed it, 'cause the next episode is godawful.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

If the next one is "Q-Less," I wouldn't consider it bad. Not brilliant, but watchable. You want bad, that's "The Passenger."

 

[TheGodBen]

There's being "abrasive" then there's just coming across as plain "whiney", which Visitor did in spades.

Almost 80 years after the end of the occupation of my country, you still get the odd person that didn't even live through it complaining about it. So god forbid that two weeks after the end of the occupation of her world, an occupation that claimed the lives of both her parents (and possibly her brothers), that Kira might not have fully emotionally assimilated the whole experience.

I really have to wonder how far ahead the Dominion War was conceived because we'll never see Tosk and his pursuers again and how did they manage to pursue their activities in Domimion dominated space

Suffice it to say that it wasn't conceived this far ahead. However, when they started planning what the Dominion was, they conceived the idea that the Hunters were a subjugated member of the Dominion and that the Dominion cloned the Tosk as a reward for their service (or some-such). That's why the Jem'Hadar look somewhat like Tosk and they share the same cloaking ability. However, this titbit of information never made it on screen.

 

[BillJ]

There's being "abrasive" then there's just coming across as plain "whiney", which Visitor did in spades.

Almost 80 years after the end of the occupation of my country, you still get the odd person that didn't even live through it complaining about it. So god forbid that two weeks after the end of the occupation of her world, an occupation that claimed the lives of both her parents (and possibly her brothers), that Kira might not have fully emotionally assimilated the whole experience.

It's not the material, it's the actress. Compare the scene in Ensign Ro where Michelle Forbes tells Picard about watching her father be tortured vs. the same material done ad nauseum by Visitor.

Forbes plays the material with an almost haunted stare... Visitor just complains (because it seemed to be the only action/emotion she seemed able to convey).

The show might be more fondly remembered if we had gotten Forbes instead of Visitor.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I disagree that Visitor can't show emotion.

I actually think the best proof that she can is "Second Skin." Not only is the material very, very gripping to begin with, and the chemistry between her and Lawrence Pressman (who played Tekeny Ghemor) strong--but she was able to do all of this through heavy Cardassian prosthetics that from what I've read were giving her serious claustrophobia at the time.

 

[Warped9]

Compare the scene in Ensign Ro where Michelle Forbes tells Picard about watching her father be tortured vs. the same material done ad nauseum by Visitor.

Forbes plays the material with an almost haunted stare... Visitor just complains.

There is nothing to say that two different people can't have different reactions.

 

[BillJ]

Compare the scene in Ensign Ro where Michelle Forbes tells Picard about watching her father be tortured vs. the same material done ad nauseum by Visitor.

Forbes plays the material with an almost haunted stare... Visitor just complains.

There is nothing to say that two different people can't have different reactions.

Agreed. But if I want to watch someone complain, I'll turn off the TV and go talk to my mother-in-law.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

When I want to watch someone complain, I log onto the TrekBBS.

 

[TheGodBen]

It's not the material, it's the actress. Compare the scene in Ensign Ro where Michelle Forbes tells Picard about watching her father be tortured vs. the same material done ad nauseum by Visitor.

Forbes plays the material with an almost haunted stare... Visitor just complains (because it seemed to be the only action/emotion she seemed able to convey).

The show might be more fondly remembered if we had gotten Forbes instead of Visitor.

William Shatner was brought in to replace Jeffrey Hunter, but the fact that Kirk was very different from Pike wasn't because of the acting, it was down to the writing. Diana Muldaur was brought in to replace Gates McFadden, but the fact that Pulaski was very different from Crusher wasn't because of the acting, it was down to the writing. Jeri Ryan was brought in to replace Jennifer Lien, but fact that Seven was very different from Kes wasn't because of the acting, it was down to the writing.

So, given these examples where Trek writers would create new characters when a new actor was hired, why do you blame Nana Visitor's acting for the differences between Ro and Kira and not the writers wanting to create a very different character?