"Resting" the Daleks

[davejames]

I quite liked the new Daleks, but I do agree they probably need a rest.

Although I wouldn't mind the occassional brief cameo, such as in The Big Bang. In fact I think they're probably MORE effective that way, instead of when they have entire stories devoted to them. When you have entire long scenes of them screeching and barking orders at each other, it gets tiresome pretty fast.

 

[zarkon]

I don't mind seeing them rested. Gives more opportunities for new villains, and to bring back old ones not seen for a long time (omega please - wouldn't say no to him being the big bang voice).

That said, I am quite curious as to the function of the "eternal" dalek, so I hope that figures into their season seven story.

 

[Sci]

I quite liked the new Daleks, but I do agree they probably need a rest.

Although I wouldn't mind the occassional brief cameo, such as in The Big Bang. In fact I think they're probably MORE effective that way, instead of when they have entire stories devoted to them. When you have entire long scenes of them screeching and barking orders at each other, it gets tiresome pretty fast.

You know what else makes them more effective?

Not begging for mercy from someone holding up a handgun.

 

[DimesDan]

A bit of a shame he caved on his original comment.

He didn't "cave." He was only ever talking about Series Six, and people misinterpreted it.

Do you actually have proof of that or are you just speculating and interpreting it the way you want to?

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

Oh man, I'm amused by all of the names for the new Dalek designs. I'd always called them the Crayola Daleks because I thought they looked like a pack of crayons.

 

[Bones2]

I quite liked the new Daleks, but I do agree they probably need a rest.

Although I wouldn't mind the occassional brief cameo, such as in The Big Bang. In fact I think they're probably MORE effective that way, instead of when they have entire stories devoted to them. When you have entire long scenes of them screeching and barking orders at each other, it gets tiresome pretty fast.

Well, I'd dispute that a Dalek story has to be made up of them chatting away at each other, but even so, it's not as if it did their status any harm. It was perhaps subverted a bit by the addition of Davros from Genesis onwards in classic Who, but that's still a load of stories that got them to the height of their popularity and had them nevertheless screeching at each other. In fact, the Dalek creation in Power where they all start talking and going "Daleks conquer and destroy!" is probably one of my favourite all time favourite Who moments. In short, I love Daleks having a natter.

I quite liked the new Daleks, but I do agree they probably need a rest.

Although I wouldn't mind the occassional brief cameo, such as in The Big Bang. In fact I think they're probably MORE effective that way, instead of when they have entire stories devoted to them. When you have entire long scenes of them screeching and barking orders at each other, it gets tiresome pretty fast.

You know what else makes them more effective?

Not begging for mercy from someone holding up a handgun.

It also made the Dalek look like a bloody idiot, because it having been made clear that a shot up the eyestalk was the only way River would be able to destroy it, all it would have to therefore do is turn around.



Anyway, as for the Daleks being rested, that's good. Gives them time to quietly brush this abomination of a design under the carpet and perhaps even think of a decent story for them (Rob Shearman, anyone?).

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't mind seeing Daleks, they are a fun species. The problem with the Daleks during the RTD era is that every story ended with extinction. Moffat at least seems to be avoiding that.

So, all this speculation of Daleks in the Chrsitmas special, guess that means we're going to spend our Christmas with a Dalek?

 

[Anachronus]

I think a bit of a hiatus for the Daleks would not be a bad thing. Skip a year or so, but if they must return more frequently make sure they have a decent story. The quality of "Dalek" would be great but not really expected.

 

[StCoop]

The most successful* Doctor Who story of all time was an RTD Dalek story, so it's not the general audience who are fed up with them, and Moffat's definition of giving them a "rest" doesn't extend beyond this current series anyway.



*Before someone jumps in, I'm talking about in all terms or measurement (Chart Postion/AI/Audience Share and Ratings) not just Ratings on their own.

 

[Bones2]

The most successful* Doctor Who story of all time was an RTD Dalek story, so it's not the general audience who are fed up with them, and Moffat's definition of giving them a "rest" doesn't extend beyond this current series anyway.



*Before someone jumps in, I'm talking about in all terms or measurement (Chart Postion/AI/Audience Share and Ratings) not just Ratings on their own.

Which one was that?



Not that I'm too bothered what the general public thinks, but wasn't Victory get some of the lowest ratings last year?

 

[Candlelight]

I only ever watch the show these days for Daleks, so I guess I won't be watching for a while!

Personally the new Daleks have grown on me. Shows are driven by ratings and fan reaction these days so if the Paradigm Daleks are really truly vetoed by the public then the Doctor will kill them off and the traditional style Dalek will return. They are popular so they'll be back at some stage.

I have heard on a couple of occasions that Moffat "doesn't really know what to do with Daleks", so I doubt they would show up in a season-arc storyline while he's in charge (their appearance in the Series 5 finale of episodes could really have been replaced by any villain).

 

[davejames]

It also made the Dalek look like a bloody idiot, because it having been made clear that a shot up the eyestalk was the only way River would be able to destroy it, all it would have to therefore do is turn around.

I thought that was a pretty effective scene myself. I can understand why some wouldn't like to see the Daleks humiliated like that, but I think the moments they show fear or weakness are some of the most interesting moments on the show.

As for the eyestalk thing, well... the Daleks have never struck me as the smartest creatures around.

 

[PorthosShadow]

It also made the Dalek look like a bloody idiot, because it having been made clear that a shot up the eyestalk was the only way River would be able to destroy it, all it would have to therefore do is turn around.

I thought that was a pretty effective scene myself. I can understand why some wouldn't like to see the Daleks humiliated like that, but I think the moments they show fear or weakness are some of the most interesting moments on the show.

As for the eyestalk thing, well... the Daleks have never struck me as the smartest creatures around.

It was in "The Parting Of The Ways" when The Doctor mentioned how despite the removal of all their emotions that deep down in their DNA just facing The Doctors scares them more than anything. Now obviously, that was just grand standing on his part but I have to believe there is something to it.

After all The Doctor came very close to wiping them out once in "Genesis Of The Daleks" and I have a feeling that know that. It's like remembing someone holding a knife to your throat as a baby then backing off and never knowing why. Basically, for The Daleks, that as their first near death experience. I think they remember that.

 

[Cutter John]

^^ I nadition to stopping them so many times throughout their history we've no idea what happened during the Time War. For all we know the Doctor may be the timelords equivilant of General Patton.

My only problem with RTD's daleks is that he redid the "Well the daleks are frinally beaten. Oops! Except for this fleet of eleventy gazillion that just appeared out of nowhere!" Having the Doctor defeat a single, dalek, or a squad, or even a single ship is heroic. Defeating an entire army time and again just pushes credibility to the breaking point, and just makes then seem totally useless. One of the few good things about 'Victory' is that for once, their crazy scheme worked and they weren't just there to destroy everything in sight.

When there are future stories, I'd much rather see the Doctor having to outwit a small scouting team, or help free a planet thats already been conquered by them.

And while we're at it, bring back their habit of using servitor races and human agents. With the daleks working behind the scenes.

 

[PorthosShadow]

My only problem with RTD's daleks is that he redid the "Well the daleks are frinally beaten. Oops! Except for this fleet of eleventy gazillion that just appeared out of nowhere!" Having the Doctor defeat a single, dalek, or a squad, or even a single ship is heroic. Defeating an entire army time and again just pushes credibility to the breaking point, and just makes then seem totally useless. One of the few good things about 'Victory' is that for once, their crazy scheme worked and they weren't just there to destroy everything in sight.

When there are future stories, I'd much rather see the Doctor having to outwit a small scouting team, or help free a planet thats already been conquered by them.

And while we're at it, bring back their habit of using servitor races and human agents. With the daleks working behind the scenes.

I think that when Rose said "The Time War ends" should have been it for the Daleks, at least for a while. I think that when you basically turn the essence of the TARDIS on someone, that should really be the end.

 

[Candlelight]

My only problem with RTD's daleks is that he redid the "Well the daleks are frinally beaten. Oops! Except for this fleet of eleventy gazillion that just appeared out of nowhere!" Having the Doctor defeat a single, dalek, or a squad, or even a single ship is heroic. Defeating an entire army time and again just pushes credibility to the breaking point, and just makes then seem totally useless. One of the few good things about 'Victory' is that for once, their crazy scheme worked and they weren't just there to destroy everything in sight.

My problem is completely opposite what you're saying; in all instances of survival RTD had semi-plausible explanations:

Dalek - Single Dalek - Fell through time vortex, survived fall to Earth
The Parting of the Ways - Emperor & some surviving crew - Fell through time vortex, survived and rebuilt army in secret
Doomsday - Four Daleks + Genesis Ark 'contents' - Hid within a void ship which protected them from the Moment in the Time War and the scouring caused by Rose
Daleks in Manhatten - Four Daleks - Escaped using Temporal shifts
The Stolen Earth - Davros's army - Caan used a temporal shift to save Davros and together rebuilt a new (albeit impure) army

The fact there are so many surviving Daleks each time doesn't worry me; the Doctor always encounters them some time afterwards to give them time to rebuild (except for the season three story).

The only story I find contrived is Victory of the Daleks, when three Daleks just happen to survive the destruction of the Crucible.

 

[Cutter John]

Well, I didn't mean to say I thought Victory was a good story. Just that I liked the fact that it was only the one ship for a change.

I guess to me it just de-emphasizes their threat if the Doctor is regularly able to pull miracles out of his hat and defeat entire armies of them with one fell swoop. It was epic in PotW's. By Doomsday it was old.

 

[RevdKathy]

I call the new ones the Fisher Price Daleks as they look like pre-school versions to me.

I really liked 'Dalek', but have to confess that all the other 'humongous numbers of daleks' stories left me a bit cold. And I am getting fed up of the "Finally defeated.. Oh whoops!" approach.

I did like the WWII story because it showed a certain cunning on the part of the daleks, which was a change from the whole 'resistence is futile' thing. Seeing a dalek offering a cup of tea was a great touch, and watching them cower before a jammie dodger showed how cunning could be turned against them. The tech in the story was out-of-whack, and the fisher price daleks sucked, but that story was a lot of fun.

I'm not sorry to see them rested for a bit. They may be a Doctor Who icon, but I'd rather wait till there's a great story to be told again.

 

[Candlelight]

I did like the WWII story because it showed a certain cunning on the part of the daleks, which was a change from the whole 'resistence is futile' thing. Seeing a dalek offering a cup of tea was a great touch, and watching them cower before a jammie dodger showed how cunning could be turned against them.

Because they ripped a lot of the deception story from the great Troughton story (and greatest Dalek story ever) I probably would've enjoyed it more.

Alas.

 

[The Lensman]

The Daleks are largely crap. They are dull, overly talky, desperately in need of a re-design (seriously lose the goddamn plunger), and some of the lamest "villians" around. Look, when they kill a companion, get back to me. Unlike Kahn, who didn't need to hit the target to hurt Kirk, the Daleks only seem to be able to kill off all the just introduced Ensign Ricky's....who we don't care about.

Combine that with the all too numerous times they've been defeated by a guy and his largely out of shape, non-militarily trained or advanced tech trained companions. It's like they really need to take Scott Evil's advice and just shoot the god damned Doctor already. They haven't just blown opportunities, they've blown MAAAAAAAAAAAASIVE opportunities. Any time the Doctor starts talking just shoot already. You're supposed to be this bad ass killer......so start fucking killing!

The Daleks, more than any Who "villian" take me out of the story because they ARE the most reliably defeatable "villian" on Who. Seriously, there is absolutely no sense of tension or "Oh shit! The Daleks have shown up!" any time they appear. Outside of the first two appearances on nuWho. And all the lame "Daleks conquer and destroy!" type chanting makes them, along with the nuCybermen, the most cartoonish and kiddie like bad guys on the show as well. Seriously, it's retarded.

How these "villians" ended up at the top of the list of favorites is simply astounding.

Best Dalek story IMO is Dalek Invasion Of Earth. Daleks seemed to have a bit more going for them.