I don't want to derail the thread, but you argued some incorrect informations:
Currency control quite a few members of the eurozone are possible in aworse mess than they might have been had they not adopted the Euro and where able to control their own interest rates.
Arguable. Greece and Ireland could have fared better in the present situation by devaluing their currency, but in the long run that would have turned against them for being stuck with a worthless currency. Trust me: I'm Italian, I know how it works.
The EU going back was sold as more of a trade association designed to make it easier to sell your goods in other european markets.
As you said, that was what the EEC was for. The EU is a different beast.
What we have now is a political entity that most of the EU citizens have never had a direct say on
We actually vote for the European Parliament. There is a democracy deficit in the EU: Commissioners (Ministers) are appointed by the national governments instead of being responsible to the EU Parliament, for example. But to argue for a disenfranchised population is disingenuous at best.
I only mentioned recent rerendum such as the Lisbon treaty which was rejected by French voters, France usually being one of the more pro EU countries. Then the EU decide to rename the treaty so it can by pass national government laws which require referendum on EU treaties. I seem to recall Irish voters rejecting some EU treaties before being send back to the polls until they gave the correct answer.
It was the proposed European Constitution that was rejected by referenda in France and Holland. It was scrapped, and the Lisbon Treaty was created instead, i.e. a looser treaty between sovereign countries and definitively
not a Constitution. That was passed by the national assemblies of all member states, as with all treaties. Ireland was the only one to hold a referendum for it (actually, the referendum was held to change the Irish Constitution to allow for the Treaty): the first time it was rejected (barely), Ireland got some concession about it, then it was held again, and it passed (with an overwhelming majority). It also helped that by that point the Irish economy was going in the gutter, and Ireland actually needed European help to bail out. So much for the evil, oppressive EU.
I don't think this thread is really the place for arguing pro or con about the EU. I am also perfectly fine with countries leaving the EU if that's what they wish (in fact, the Lisbon Treaty creates exactly such a procedure). I am pro-European, but more than anything, I am pro-freedom of choice. I just wanted to correct some misinformation about the EU.
so I guess that makes me neither left or right. I've used the term "up" a couple of times.
