Refit/1701-A - 3D Model, Full Interior

[Bill Thompson]

...perhaps the wall display had been set to show a power distribution diagram by the previous occupant? ...

That, my friend, is a brilliant retcon rationale that I never considered. Dan mentioned he was planning to use the turboshafts for EPS routing, too, coincidentally.

That would certainly explain Admiral Kirk's hesitation and perplexed expression when he sees the display for the first time...!

 

[Mytran]

I hadn't considered Kirk's reaction but you're spot on, it does match!
It also leads on nicely to my explanation of the magically changing ceiling in Engineering when Kirk visits there later. Basically, he is having a highly baffling, easily distracted day!

Here is that musing, BTW:

I have to agree that (unfortunately) the positioning of the wall and ceiling means Kirk can't really be anywhere EXCEPT the main engineering level. So, like Blssdwlf I was mulling over the reasons why Kirk might want to go down/up/down and I came up with a scenario where Kirk is simply trying to find a quiet spot to break the bad news to Decker.

1) Kirk arrives at the upper level and peers over the railing. He spots Decker and takes the starboard-fore lift down to the main level.
2) Something (or someone!) catches his eye on the lower level and he pauses to gaze over the railing for moment. He then realises that in the meantime Decker has taken the port-aft lift to the upper level!
3) Since the upper level is a nice quiet spot to speak privately to Decker, Kirk takes the starboard-fore lift up to join him. However, Decker was only up there to collect a report from an underling and has now rejoined Scotty on the main level. Kirk sees this shortly after stepping off the lift and moving to the railing.
4) This puts Kirk's back up a bit - Decker couldn't possibly be avoiding him on purpose, could he? Kirk walks smartly to the port-aft lift and rides it down, no doubt cursing the absurdly slow speed of the lifts and wondering if a ladder could be fitted somewhere instead.
5) Kirk does not take his eye off Decker this time until he finally gets to speak to him.

It's a bit of an absurd scenario, but then it's an absurd camera shot too. However, it might explain Kirk's extra abruptness when dealing with Decker, whose cheery attitude would merely fuel suspicions in Kirk's mind that the young captain was leading him a merry dance on purpose. Kirk's terse "let's talk" before leading Decker over the FOYER of all places to publicly demote him would naturally follow; Kirk would have preferred somewhere private to do this, but he's wasted enough time chasing Decker around Engineering already!

If the so-called magically changing ceiling make no sense to you, please feel free to peruse that year old thread for further details!

 

[Lt. Washburn]

This is rather late to the discussion, but earlier in the thread was talk about the undersized turboshafts in the Rec Deck. Can't these just be smaller, limited-access turbolifts? Sort of how there's a small personal lift in engineering. They wouldn't have to be connected to the main turbolift network.

 

[Lestatdelc]

Getting a little further along on the officer's lounger window frames. These are some work-in-progress models I have been working on for a while now.

It is based on a myriad sources and a key one for this part are the miniature blueprints drawn up by Leslie Ekker, for Astra Image for construction of the miniature "set" interior used for filming the approach of the Vulcan shuttle in TMP, the initial side-elevation sketch Ekker did which was sold to me by Lora Johnson, who was the author of Mr. Scott’s Guide to the Enterprise. and extensive photo analysis of the filming miniature.

These are idealized and reconciled with the exterior filming miniature and are worked out at the scale level of "in-universe" down-to-the-milimeter. Still have a long way to go, but finally have a hyper accurate baseline on some of the key shapes.

This will allow me to begin to work backwards, along the lines of what you have been doing Dan, and begin to build out the longeron, stringers, spars and ribs, for the underlying structure of a presumed 23rd century take on semi-monocoque construction of the Enterprise-refit.

 

[Maurice]

I read the same thing as you: the internals of the refit had not been finalized before Sternbach made the transparency. The actual graphic is, if you study it, an awful tangle of shafts that make no sense at all, have far too many decks, and don't take the shuttle/cargo bay or rec deck into account at all. (Here's a still from the scene we're talking about. (c) Paramount, used pursuant to Fair Use copyright law for reasons of research, etc. etc.)

For my version, I decluttered the shafts, limiting the ship to 4 symmetric radials across the crew quarters in the saucer, and three verticals in the secondary, which seemed the most logical setup with what we know of 1701's "real" internal space. Of course, as our Chief Engineer continues his build, I (or he: my displays are done with OpenOffice Draw and are easily altered) can match his layout accordingly.

On the profile image some of what what look like shaft details/decks are actually text labels. For instance, you can see the two-line text HANGAR DECK inside said hangar deck.

 

[DanGovier]

Hi guys, sorry for being a bit AWOL. I'm just catching up on recent discussions, and I wanted to share a quick shot of what I've been working on. I've been converting my Unreal Engine implementation to use baked instead of dynamic lighting, and I'm sure you'll agree that the results are a significant improvement! (Textures are not final)
I've written a script which builds these corridors automatically, so all I need to do is give it a radius, number of segments, and where the doors etc need to be. It's going to save me a lot of time when it comes to getting all the corridors in place, and it also offers big performance improvements too.

Apologies...I apparently haven't uploaded pics to a message board in many, many years. Here are the images referred to above:

Cheers again,
--Bill

Very nice! I think Sketchup is a hugely underrated tool for simple geometry modelling. It's so quick and easy to generate models of an exact size with the right selection of plugins, and the only other tool I'm using right now is RizomUV for the UV unwrapping (it's very much a requirement for getting things into Unreal properly).
I'd definitely be interested in using your bridge internals on my build. Assuming we have a similar scale, it makes sense to reduce duplication of effort wherever possible.

This is rather late to the discussion, but earlier in the thread was talk about the undersized turboshafts in the Rec Deck. Can't these just be smaller, limited-access turbolifts? Sort of how there's a small personal lift in engineering. They wouldn't have to be connected to the main turbolift network.

I did consider having them as a single deck drop down from above, but the issue is both height and width with the Rec Deck scale. The columns literally hit the outer hull both above and below, and width wise they are about half the diameter of a typical turboshaft. On a 305m ship, I can't see any way of making them into turbolifts.

Getting a little further along on the officer's lounger window frames. These are some work-in-progress models I have been working on for a while now.

It is based on a myriad sources and a key one for this part are the miniature blueprints drawn up by Leslie Ekker, for Astra Image for construction of the miniature "set" interior used for filming the approach of the Vulcan shuttle in TMP, the initial side-elevation sketch Ekker did which was sold to me by Lora Johnson, who was the author of Mr. Scott’s Guide to the Enterprise. and extensive photo analysis of the filming miniature.

These are idealized and reconciled with the exterior filming miniature and are worked out at the scale level of "in-universe" down-to-the-milimeter. Still have a long way to go, but finally have a hyper accurate baseline on some of the key shapes.

This will allow me to begin to work backwards, along the lines of what you have been doing Dan, and begin to build out the longeron, stringers, spars and ribs, for the underlying structure of a presumed 23rd century take on semi-monocoque construction of the Enterprise-refit.

I'm liking the curvature of your window frames and the angle of the hull in general. Mine are too straight and too vertical, which is something I'll fix further down the line.
I'd be very interested to see what you come up with for the structure itself. Adding in the support beams has quite a big effect on available space in places, so I've had to go through quite a bit of trail and error to come up with something that works. Although, I still haven't finished the structure surrounding the lounge yet and I'm sure there are some headaches waiting for me :P

 

[DanGovier]

Just a quick test of the Red Alert

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[Mytran]

That's very well lit for just having those floor level light panels.
I wonder how much eye glare you would get from living all day in such an environment?

 

[DanGovier]

That's very well lit for just having those floor level light panels.
I wonder how much eye glare you would get from living all day in such an environment?

I've toned down the lighting quite a bit now, and made the panels more yellowy like we see in TWOK. It's actually quite challenging to get it just right, it's either too bright and washed out or too dark and gloomy :P

 

[137th Gebirg]

So you're accurately reproducing the Enterprise as it appeared in TVH and TMP, respectively.

 

[blssdwlf]

With it lit like that from the bottom I wonder if it looks "halloween creepy"? Are there lights from above as well?

 

[David cgc]

Nope, but the lights from behind the camera would've reduced the "campfire story" effect. It's a bit of an issue with the TMP sets (or, perhaps, an intentional bit of futurism). For instance, we see the entire ceiling of the bridge clearly, and there isn't a single lighting fixture.

 

[DanGovier]

With it lit like that from the bottom I wonder if it looks "halloween creepy"? Are there lights from above as well?

There are the occasional circular ceiling lights as seen from TWOK onward, but they are dim and barely contribute to the overall lighting.

Nope, but the lights from behind the camera would've reduced the "campfire story" effect. It's a bit of an issue with the TMP sets (or, perhaps, an intentional bit of futurism). For instance, we see the entire ceiling of the bridge clearly, and there isn't a single lighting fixture.

The interesting thing I'm finding with this is that I'm only using emissive textures to light the ship. I'm not going to be 'cheating' as such by adding invisible light sources, so the lights you see are the only sources of light. That means when I light the bridge I'm going to have to rely entirely on the tiny spot lights that go all around the perimeter above the consoles. The Rec Deck and Lounge should be fine though, as they have ceiling panels. Engineering will be an interesting challenge.

I have had to cheat slightly though for the corridors, because the way Unreal Engine works is that it makes things whiter as they get brighter. So, in order to light the corridor properly those floor panels turn very white. I really wanted to match the yellow seen in TWOK, so the panels' light emission is now separated from their actual colour, making this kind of effect possible:
(you'll have to ignore the messed up bit behind the light, I'm in the middle of fixing that :P)

 

[Bill Thompson]

...I'd definitely be interested in using your bridge internals on my build. Assuming we have a similar scale, it makes sense to reduce duplication of effort wherever possible.

Awesome, we'll work it out! I've used the construction notes and screencaps for scale, so it should be--if not exact--then really, really close.

First off, great work Bill. I too would love to see some of your actual SketchUp models and, with your permission of course, leverage them into some of the the things I am working on where applicable.

Double awesome! I love the work you've put into your website. Geeking out over minutiae like shuttlepod door mechanics is right up my alley.

Until I get outta cadet status I can't private message y'all, but hang tight and I'll be able to soon.
I'm considering opening up a new thread for my renders and bridge-talk, so I don't hijack Dan's build thread.

...I'm not going to be 'cheating' as such by adding invisible light sources, so the lights you see are the only sources of light. That means when I light the bridge I'm going to have to rely entirely on the tiny spot lights that go all around the perimeter above the consoles...

That shouldn't be a problem. I was concerned my bridge would be too dark without direct overhead lighting, too. My renders only use 'real' lights without cheaters, and the bridge perimeter lights do a good job of general lighting because of the wash reflection off of the curved walls. The lower bridge has cove lighting under the perimeter which helps with general illumination, too, and the weapons console has lighting in its niche. (All the light placements are as per TMP.) Overall, it gives a very natural feel without all the 'stage lighting.'

 

[ashleytinger]

Awesome, we'll work it out! I've used the construction notes and screencaps for scale, so it should be--if not exact--then really, really close.


Double awesome! I love the work you've put into your website. Geeking out over minutiae like shuttlepod door mechanics is right up my alley.

Until I get outta cadet status I can't private message y'all, but hang tight and I'll be able to soon.
I'm considering opening up a new thread for my renders and bridge-talk, so I don't hijack Dan's build thread.



That shouldn't be a problem. I was concerned my bridge would be too dark without direct overhead lighting, too. My renders only use 'real' lights without cheaters, and the bridge perimeter lights do a good job of general lighting because of the wash reflection off of the curved walls. The lower bridge has cove lighting under the perimeter which helps with general illumination, too, and the weapons console has lighting in its niche. (All the light placements are as per TMP.) Overall, it gives a very natural feel without all the 'stage lighting.'

Yeah the general lighting they have works for utilitarian and usage purposes but when they went to actually film it was kind of a nightmare to get lighting on the actors so the audience could actually see them. So from an actual usage point of view it's great, as a practical set-up for filming, not so much.

I'm running into that A LOT when I try and build these for use in DAZ with people in them.

Dan, I love the speed and thought you're putting into this. Loving watching this ship come together.

 

[Rick Sternbach]

IIRC I remember reading somewhere that Rick Sternbach—who was a relative newbie at the time working under Lee Cole—was actually repsonbile for the turbo lift system diagram. And that he simply made it look interesting and busy without a huge amount of thought put into the turbo car system itself and how it could or should fit and work within the ship. And that they simply had a cutout slot behind the transparency that they could move a handheld pen light along a path to show the car in motion in the scene where Kirk is taking it for the cargo bay to the bridge in an early TMP scene.

Would love to see a really clear image of the graphic itself (above just what's possible to pull digitally for a blue-ray screen grab.

Heh. Technically, I was working alongside Lee Cole and Mike Minor and under the command of production designer Joe Jennings, and eventually P.D. Harold Michelson. As for the turbo diagram, the guts of the ship were astoundingly unknown with the exception of the sets being built, and there simply was no time to invent all of the decks and corridors and habitable spaces, with all of the other things we needed to get drawn up and built. So yeah, the light-up turbo paths were basic ideas about what might be there for a particular display config. Imagine, if you will, tons of other interactive displays that could be displayed on that screen. Easy today, super restrictive back in 1978. Cutaway artist Dave Kimble thankfully had more time to flesh out the ship interior for his big poster. - Rick

 

[Sibyl]

As well-thought-out as the Refit was at the time, it was still "just" a prop in a movie. I totally get what you're saying, @Rick Sternbach, and thank you for pointing that out.

The fact is that the Enterprise, whichever version, could not exist as both what we saw of the interiors and exteriors onscreen at the same time. Compromises must be made to make everything work together.

 

[StarCruiser]

Heh. Technically, I was working alongside Lee Cole and Mike Minor and under the command of production designer Joe Jennings, and eventually P.D. Harold Michelson. As for the turbo diagram, the guts of the ship were astoundingly unknown with the exception of the sets being built, and there simply was no time to invent all of the decks and corridors and habitable spaces, with all of the other things we needed to get drawn up and built. So yeah, the light-up turbo paths were basic ideas about what might be there for a particular display config. Imagine, if you will, tons of other interactive displays that could be displayed on that screen. Easy today, super restrictive back in 1978. Cutaway artist Dave Kimble thankfully had more time to flesh out the ship interior for his big poster. - Rick

Still wish you were "Senior Illustrator" for Star Trek now... Overwhelmingly preferred your style over what they have today...

 

[GhostLoveScore]

I have had to cheat slightly though for the corridors, because the way Unreal Engine works is that it makes things whiter as they get brighter. So, in order to light the corridor properly those floor panels turn very white. I really wanted to match the yellow seen in TWOK, so the panels' light emission is now separated from their actual colour, making this kind of effect possible:

That's how I do it too. Apply just a little bit of glow on the material and put invisible light in front of it.

 

[bigjimslade]

In the event that this may help you out, this is my 3D model for this area. You can ignore the interior. This is the only interior I have done and the only reason I did this one was that the windows are so big that something had to go behind there. The interior is an amalgamation of sources and invention. I don't assert any authority whatsoever on the interior.

The two things that I may contribute here are the window frames and the inset shape. I have always drawn the profile as straight. I know a lot of sources show it curved. Yes, there appears to be a slight curve at the back of the inset in the studio model. I can't really tell if there is a curve at the front. From a side view, the outer profile is decidedly curved at the front. However, we are dealing with something that is fairly small, and a curve here might be just the result of handcrafting.

Not to pick on the model makers but, this area has a lot of imperfections. The various bevels are not consistent. I have tried curving the back and fronts slightly but my choice has been to make all the bevels the same width and the lines straight.