RED LETTER MEDIA SEASON 2 REVIEW

[eschaton]

I like just about all the things people criticize about DSC (excepting the writing), though I also am a nitpicker of the Phil Farrand school so even the best episodes will get torn apart with love.

I mentioned on another forum (when I was discussing why I don't enjoy - even don't understand - fanfic) that I'm fundamentally a Dolyist, not a Watsonian. I'm really not concerned in the slightest with trying to find within-canon explanations for how things make sense. I'm much more interested in works of fiction from a writerly perspective - trying to figure out authorial intent. This means I just don't really get immersed in fictional worlds - I'm always casting a critical eye about trying to figure out how things were actually slapped together.

 

[fireproof78]

Never heard it put quite that way but it makes sense. I'm a Watsonian through and through.

I love authorial intent but when I'm watching a show or reading a book I do not concern myself with that.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'll go with authorial intent in the absence of anything that contradicts it. If what we see on screen contradicts the intent, then I go with what's seen on screen, regardless of what I think of it. I try to make everything fit together, but when newer information is irreconcilable with older information, I go with what's newer.

 

[eschaton]

I'll go with authorial intent in the absence of anything that contradicts it. If what we see on screen contradicts the intent, then I go with what's seen on screen, regardless of what I think of it. I try to make everything fit together, but when newer information is irreconcilable with older information, I go with what's newer.

I get what you mean. However, what I was getting at is it's just not that interesting to me to ponder hypothetical what ifs within a show's universe (what if Prime Lorca came back, what if T'Kuvma never died, what if Discovery took Jacob and his daughter along, etc). In my own mindspace, the characters exist to tell the story, not as independent beings which have an imaginative life beyond the show (which is why I don't really grok fanfic). On the other hand, I find behind-the-scenes reports on how shows are made (like those compiled in the fifty-year mission) to be fascinating - particularly hearing about earlier discarded drafts, and thinking about how dramatically different some classic stories could have been.

 

[fireproof78]

and thinking about how dramatically different some classic stories could have been.

Funny enough, that's usually the fan fiction I see is people imagining how stories might be different.

 

[KennyB]

I was wondering if someone would focus on their immutable characteristics on the first page and you didn't disappoint! Agism, racism, fat shaming, and sexism all in one post before you even mentioned a single thing about their actual content;

Glad you enjoyed..........how are adjectives hurtful if accurate? Nobody shamed them. I described them. Sexual orientation has no bearing. Settle down Buttercup, you'll hurt yourself looking so hard for things to be offended by.

 

[rocketdave]

I was wondering if someone would focus on their immutable characteristics on the first page and you didn't disappoint! Agism, racism, fat shaming, and sexism all in one post before you even mentioned a single thing about their actual content; you only missed criticizing them based on their most likely sexual orientation in your critique. I imagine if they were anything but that combination you wouldn't dare post that (and, no, whatever combination of the above you also identify with doesn't excuse it either).

Thank goodness the RLM guys would never stoop so low as to do any of those things.




...you know, except for the times that they called Carrie Fisher too old and basically implied her face made her look like a monster or when they ruthlessly mocked the late Dom DeLuise's weight or repeatedly called Sarah Jessica Parker a horse or when Rich spoke in a mock "Asian" language or when "Plinkett" expressed distaste at Marina Sirtis because she'd aged somewhat between TNG and Nemesis, etc...

 

[SITZKRIEG!]

Glad you enjoyed..........how are adjectives hurtful if accurate? Nobody shamed them. I described them. Sexual orientation has no bearing. Settle down Buttercup, you'll hurt yourself looking so hard for things to be offended by.

Just point me to a post where you dismiss automatically elderly overweight asian women or any other combo of equally "accurate" characteristics based not on their content/opinions first and foremost but instead first on those characteristics; until then, I'm just pointing out that you are *exactly* the model of tolerance that the Star Trek Discovery team is looking for in a fan and would fit in great with there.

 

[SITZKRIEG!]

Thank goodness the RLM guys would never stoop so low as to do any of those things.

...you know, except for the times that they called Carrie Fisher too old and basically implied her face made her look like a monster or when they ruthlessly mocked the late Dom DeLuise's weight or repeatedly called Sarah Jessica Parker a horse or when Rich spoke in a mock "Asian" language or when "Plinkett" expressed distaste at Marina Sirtis because she'd aged somewhat between TNG and Nemesis, etc...

So... are you saying that two wrongs make a right? Is that really your defense... that he stooped to their level supposedly (dunno... I don't watch them regularly and have seen maybe 3-4 of their videos total so can't verify or dispute it) and therefore it's ok? Wow... this really is mirror universe thread in that case.

 

[fireproof78]

So... are you saying that two wrongs make a right? Is that really your defense... that he stooped to their level supposedly (dunno... I don't watch them regularly and have seen maybe 3-4 of their videos total so can't verify or dispute it) and therefore it's ok? Wow... this really is mirror universe thread in that case.

No, we live in an "eye for an eye" culture and that has been going on for much longer than Star Trek.

 

[rocketdave]

So... are you saying that two wrongs make a right? Is that really your defense... that he stooped to their level supposedly (dunno... I don't watch them regularly and have seen maybe 3-4 of their videos total so can't verify or dispute it) and therefore it's ok? Wow... this really is mirror universe thread in that case.

I'm sure you'll be happy to know that that's absolutely not what I was trying to say; I was merely pointing out what I perceived to be your selective outrage. To be fair, however, I could foresee my earlier comment potentially being misconstrued, so I probably should have been clearer.

 

[SITZKRIEG!]

I'm sure you'll be happy to know that that's absolutely not what I was trying to say; I was merely pointing out what I perceived to be your selective outrage. To be fair, however, I could foresee my earlier comment potentially being misconstrued, so I probably should have been clearer.

If they join trekbbs and start posting hypocritical drivel like that here in a thread that I read, I'll call them out on it too. I'm not going to go out and search for things to be mad about though across the whole of the internet though; it's not selective outrage but rather picking the obvious low hanging fruit (and KennyB's inclusive and "accurate" post was practically a spud in the ground you could trip on).

 

[Lord Garth]

I've seen people complaining about fanboys on TrekBBS since it opened. I was there. The angry fanboys' targets were just DS9 and VOY back then, instead of DSC. Just switch complaining about "SJWs!!!" to "PC!!!" and you're good to go. The only thing that's changed -- the only thing -- is that now said fanboys are on YouTube Videos instead of crappy Geocities Websites.

Anyone who wants to "call out" someone else for telling it as they see it will be at it all day, every day.

 

[drt]

I've seen people complaining about fanboys on TrekBBS since it opened. I was there. The angry fanboys' targets were just DS9 and VOY back then, instead of DSC. Just switch complaining about "SJWs!!!" to "PC!!!" and you're good to go.

They levied the "pc" charge against TNG plenty, too.

 

[KennyB]

Just point me to a post where you dismiss automatically elderly overweight asian women or any other combo of equally "accurate" characteristics based not on their content/opinions first and foremost but instead first on those characteristics; until then, I'm just pointing out that you are *exactly* the model of tolerance that the Star Trek Discovery team is looking for in a fan and would fit in great with there.

Give me a link to the elderly overweight asian women YouTube channel where they bitch about sci-fi shows.

 

[KennyB]

I could foresee my earlier comment potentially being misconstrued, so I probably should have been clearer.

Only because someone was looking to twist your words to fit their outrage........

 

[Michael]

Personally, I found their assessment of season two of Discovery to be pretty spot-on and I'm glad they gave it a watch after all. I don't agree with everything that is said (especially some of the things by Rich) and obviously much of it is exaggerated for comedic effect, but the general points I can agree with very much. Despite an amazing cast, movie-quality sets, cinematography, music and special effects the most essential thing – the writing – is leaving so much to be desired. By the end of the season the story is so muddled and inconsistent that you have to wonder if they mapped out any of it when they originally planned out the 14 episodes. Mike is fair in pointing out some of the highlights of the season like “New Eden” or “The Sound of Thunder” as well as his disappointment over episodes like “Point of Light” and the finale episodes.

Out of curiosity, where did they mention “Mary Sues” or “SJWs” anywhere in the review? I don't remember hearing anything like that.

 

[Death Ray]

I’m not a Disco fan, but after watching RLM’s video, I was inspired to watch “The Sound of Thunder”. I can only describe as hilarious the predator species of Saru’s species— literal slime-dripping boogeymen that speak in Parseltongue. Given their nature as something from Stephen King’s nightmares, I think it was very generous of them to let the Kelpians live as well as they did!

I was also reminded (again) of how much this show deviates from classic Trek. Imagine if those slime monsters appeared from out of nowhere above earth and, with about 15 minutes of historical knowledge, decided to tell humanity that their Slime Federation was going to start laying down the law and solve our ethnic conflicts. (Although I’m sure they could probably handle Israel/Palestine as well as America has.)

 

[JamesRye]

Out of curiosity, where did they mention “Mary Sues” of “SJWs” anywhere in the review? I don't remember hearing anything like that.

They didn't - in fact, they praised the actors and their performances and said that pretty much everything about DSC was great aside from the writing.

There's plenty of reviewers like Dave Cullen who love to bang that particular drum.

 

[Mach5]

By the end of the season the story is so muddled and inconsistent that you have to wonder if they mapped out any of it when they originally planned out the 14 episodes.

It was my impression that they did have the entire season mapped out initially, but then took a hard turn after episode 8 and started winging it. If Memory Serves was fantastic, but it's like Project Daedalus reset the whole thing. Everything reeked of last minute rewrites.