Real life vs fantasy

[CaptJimboJones]

Online "relationships" that are purely based in fantasy can be a fun diversion, but they're just that - fantasy fun. No substitute for the real thing in any way, not even close.

My wife is not only there as a real-life sex partner (yippee!) but she takes care of me when I'm sick, makes me feel better after a crappy day, laughs at my dumb jokes, watches bad sci-fi with me even though it bores her to tears, and gave birth to my son and daughter. I doubt very much that even the coolest "avatar" can do those things.

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

Chatting and falling in love with someone over MSN or the like just seems weird to me for various reasons. The main reason being that it's inpersonal, it's too easy to chat to someone and put on an act. Most peoples online personas are totally different to their 'real selves'. You are not falling in love with the person, but with an 'avatar' of that person, a fantasy. Maybe it's just easier for some people to fall in love online as it removes the awkwardness of doing it in real life social situations - some people find that type of thing hard.

I agree with this 100%. I think that one of the important parts of building a relationship is seeing the person at their worst, or at least when they're not at their best.

Online, it seems too easy to only show what you want the other person to see.

It can be done, there are plenty of people who've done it and are doing it, but at some point to become more serious, there has to be an in person component to it.

 

[ria 75]

How do you like your romance?
Do you prefer your love interest real?

Why, Ria, you and I are having a great time in my fantasyland! I hope it's good for you too!

Mr Awe

Best laugh of the day!

You're reminding me of Reg Barkley now

Don't laugh: until recently, I, too, have been a bit of a Reg Barclay. What I had in mind when starting this thread was more like fiction-induced fantasising (with some people, it can be very fulfilling at times. Hey, I wouldn't be here if I wasn't a total nerd, at least in that respect) vs taking the trouble to pursue someone in real life. I know, it sounds crazy. It's my Trekker side.

There is a gorgeous guy who lives 10 minutes walk from me and whom the dating service (and our first short talk date and e-mails) claims to be perfect for me. Sure, I'd consent to watch the rugby if he'd consent to watch the sci fi shows. We're far from being there yet anyway.

So I already know that, on paper anyway, no hurdle. Same goals. Same political opinions. Same background. Hell, even similar vacationing plans and very similar Master's essay subjects, can you believe that?

What's the problem with this picture?
Not romantic. So far. Really not. Perfect but... when is the fun going to start? I'm sure it could. But... I'm having a reality overload and I want some dream. The guy's a dreamboat but as far as I can tell, he's not a dreamer. He's a consumer of reality. He thinks that BBSers are losers with no lives. He spends a lot of time with friends. That almost bothers me. Am I crazy?

To me, the perfect picture is 2 loners getting together. Although they tend to be depressive types. One is enough. 2 of those together isn't very productive.

I haven't had many sparks (one, maybe two) to feed my inner fire yet.
Gotta see more of the guy anyway. Things should follow their course, with a little luck.
To be continued, I suppose. I hope I'll have a happy update for you guys soon.

When it starts with the background instead of the attraction/infatuation, it goes ever so slow...
What am I saying? Too much infatuation makes it go slower because one is too shy to do anything about it. I've been there. But starting from hard factual compatibilities, however high, that's a bit iffy.

Now I have to say, Timofnine, CaptJimboJones, 4th hanson bro, (it seems to be men vs women with the opinions here), you paint a really sad picture of online relationships. I wouldn't think of putting on an act, nor would most of the people I get along with.

I think that in exchanging a lot of discussion, like deep thoughts and stories of your life and opinions in e-mail on one side, and everyday details and banter and whatever comes through your head on MSN on the other side, you can really get to know someone. I am aware that reality and the menial details of living together can undo all that. (I've had a first hand experience of this. With someone I'd already dated, even! But never lived with for a fortnight before.)

Now I am wiser but I still care for fantasy. I see it for what it is. To me it is fulfilling. Maybe I just don't see life for what it is. Thank you An Officer for reminding me it can hold a lot of happy surprises.

Lastly, I wouldn't dream of relying on long-term online only romance. If I get to like someone online, I want to meet them as soon as possible! If only to ascertain I'm not wasting my time on a dead end.

Oh, and Jadzia, this sounds great: "real-life augmented with fantasy"... if only I knew what you meant! I think I do, but I'm not quite sure.

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

What's the problem with this picture?
Not romantic. So far. Really not. Perfect but... when is the fun going to start? I'm sure it could. But... I'm having a reality overload and I want some dream.

In an online only relationship, you miss the physical cues, looks, and touches that define communication. What is it, 93% of communication is non-verbal? If you eliminate that aspect, that's a lot to compensate for and it becomes easier to overlook or not see that part.

Now I have to say, Timofnine, CaptJimboJones, 4th hanson bro, (it seems to be men vs women with the opinions here), you paint a really sad picture of online relationships. I wouldn't think of putting on an act, nor would most of the people I get along with.

I think that in exchanging a lot of discussion, like deep thoughts and stories of your life and opinions in e-mail on one side, and everyday details and banter and whatever comes through your head on MSN on the other side, you can really get to know someone. I am aware that reality and the menial details of living together can undo all that. (I've had a first hand experience of this. With someone I'd already dated, even! But never lived with for a fortnight before.)

I don't think it's putting on an act so much as being able to filter yourself before the message goes out, but that doesn't sound right either. In an online relationship, you don't get to observe that person in their "natural environment" and see how they treat people they don't have to be nice to in order to get something.

I think with an online only type relationship, you can build up such an image of a person (the fantasy) and then find out the bang to hype ratio is way out of whack and become sorely disappointed/ soured.

 

[Niorah]

What's the problem with this picture?
Not romantic. So far. Really not. Perfect but... when is the fun going to start? I'm sure it could. But... I'm having a reality overload and I want some dream.

See, personally I have always believed that the perfect relationship can be found where the two partners have a good balance between being similar and being different. If you're too similar you'll end up being bored out of your mind in a very short time, if you're too different you'll end up fighting all the time. Neither option sounds good. If he's too perfect you'll end up hating him before you can say "Lemme call the moving van!".

And I am personally insulted by his comments on BBSers.

 

[Lindley]

I sometimes think my focus on a certain girl who is several states away is just an excuse to avoid taking chances locally. Staying in limbo with her isn't going to accomplish anything, though.....have to tip the balance one way or the other.

 

[ria 75]

See, personally I have always believed that the perfect relationship can be found where the two partners have a good balance between being similar and being different. If you're too similar you'll end up being bored out of your mind in a very short time, if you're too different you'll end up fighting all the time. Neither option sounds good. If he's too perfect you'll end up hating him before you can say "Lemme call the moving van!".

I totally agree. What more can I say? I'm just so used to being alone with myself that someone reasonably different sounds like a big adventure. (And I'm a bit of a stay-at-home.) My loss, if I didn't try.

You just don't get magic on command, that's what I fear.

 

[Kestra]

I sometimes think my focus on a certain girl who is several states away is just an excuse to avoid taking chances locally. Staying in limbo with her isn't going to accomplish anything, though.....have to tip the balance one way or the other.

Visit her!

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

What's the problem with this picture?
Not romantic. So far. Really not. Perfect but... when is the fun going to start? I'm sure it could. But... I'm having a reality overload and I want some dream.

See, personally I have always believed that the perfect relationship can be found where the two partners have a good balance between being similar and being different. If you're too similar you'll end up being bored out of your mind in a very short time, if you're too different you'll end up fighting all the time. Neither option sounds good. If he's too perfect you'll end up hating him before you can say "Lemme call the moving van!".

Well said. I think about my wife and I. We share a lot of the same values and beliefs but aren't carbon copies of one another. I like to play sports, she likes to shop with friends. She'd like to have a house full of guests nearly every night, some days I'd like to build an alligator filled moat.

There's enough difference between us that we're able to keep our own personalities while coming together for something bigger and hopefully better than both of us.

And I am personally insulted by his comments on BBSers.

As soon as my mom brings my lunch down to the basement, let's get him.

 

[Lindley]

I sometimes think my focus on a certain girl who is several states away is just an excuse to avoid taking chances locally. Staying in limbo with her isn't going to accomplish anything, though.....have to tip the balance one way or the other.

Visit her!

We're going to be in the same airport for a couple of hours next Sunday. That wasn't the ideal sort of visit I tried to set up, but it was the best I could manage this time around. I promised to keep her company in the check-in line....

 

[An Officer]

Ria75, I would say, you should not be overly encouraged by similarities, nor should you be overly deterred by differences. It's all a matter of how much you're each willing to bend for the other... And it's probably good for people to be with someone sufficiently different enough to allow them to get a slightly different perspective of the world, so that, between the two of you, you get something resembling the full picture!

I would say that, if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, first, you have to enjoy their conversation... there is no worse sentence than dealing with a voice and conversation that you can't bear. Even if you loose everything else, it's good to have a lovely conversation between you - this is also important when you are trying to communicate important ideas to each other in order to problem-solve.

The second thing I think important is respect, you must be able to respect one another... If you have a tremendous respect for somebody, it is difficult to mistreat, hurt, or take that person for granted. Respect nips a lot of potential problems in the bud. If you have a slightly healthy fear of your partner, it will cause you to be careful about merely walking in with muddy shoes, let alone having an affair! A slight terror is essential for continued good behaviour... Don't misunderstand me, I'm not talking Sado Masochism or some wacko extreme ideas here, I'm talking about a reluctance to disappoint or cause emotional turmoil to your partner, that's how I define respect.

The final thing I would encourage is as much close extended contact as possible, taken at a proper pace... spendind entire days together, then eventually nights, then entire weekends, leading to entire weeks... building up the trust and reponsibilities in this fashion... then observe carefully how he treats you in each situation, how he makes yiu feel, what efforts he goes to... if he's not romantic at the beginning of the relationship, there's not much hope that he'll be inspired to such efforts at a later stage... in anycase, give yourselves time to relax with each other so you can be yourselves... then you'll know what to do when the tim comes... Your gut will tell you.

Thank you for a really enjoyable topic!

 

[Goji]

Right now, as a lot of people here know, I love a girl who started out as my penpal and language-exchange partner in Tokyo, Japan. If I could be with her in real life right now, I would. But I have known her for two and a half years now, and we have felt this way about each other for a year and a half, so we're used to it now. However, next year one way or another I will be headed to Japan, and I will most certainly be seeing her then. She knows this and is quite excited about it. We both are.

I agree that online relationships can never be compared to the real thing. I didn't plan to ever be in one, and I still have no idea how it will work out. I just know that for now I am very happy because of it. In fact, over Thanksgiving break I'm going to put together a Christmas present to send her, and I'm very much looking forward to it.

 

[Kestra]

We're going to be in the same airport for a couple of hours next Sunday. That wasn't the ideal sort of visit I tried to set up, but it was the best I could manage this time around. I promised to keep her company in the check-in line....

Awwww. Sometimes you just have to make the most of what you have. I think the first *proper* kiss I had with my husband was on a bench in Union Station (Chicago).

Hope you have some fun!

 

[Niorah]

See, personally I have always believed that the perfect relationship can be found where the two partners have a good balance between being similar and being different. If you're too similar you'll end up being bored out of your mind in a very short time, if you're too different you'll end up fighting all the time. Neither option sounds good. If he's too perfect you'll end up hating him before you can say "Lemme call the moving van!".

I totally agree. What more can I say? I'm just so used to be alone with myself that someone reasonably different sounds like a big adventure. (And I'm a bit of a stay-at-home.) My loss, if I didn't try.

You just don't get magic on command, that's what I fear.

Just be very aware that you have the right kind of different. There are key things that you just cannot be different about, and I'm not talking about the big things in life, like religion, politics and football teams. I'm talking about the small but very important things that could make a difference between the two of you being able to enjoy yourselves and the two of you getting at each other's throat all the time. You have to think long and hard about what you're willing to compromise and what you're unmovable about. If you feel you just can't bear watching rugby (which is not what you said but it's a good example) you'll have to find something else to do. How long do you think you'll just sit there and watch rugby? Two weeks? Two months? Two years? Twenty?

Now I know it's early to be talking about a long-time relationship with this guy, but it's better to get these key things out of the way in your mind as soon as possible, not just regarding him, but regarding any possible love interest in your future.

And as personal experience has taught me, magic can happen if you want it to happen. If you have the guts, you -will- get the glory.

 

[Niorah]

And I am personally insulted by his comments on BBSers.

As soon as my mom brings my lunch down to the basement, let's get him.

Damn right, bro, let me just fix my glasses with some tape, they're coming apart again, the buggers...

 

[Holdfast]

To be perfectly honest, for all my idle online flirting, I'm not in a relationshippy sort of place place in my life at the moment for various reasons, so my perspective on the question is skewed as a result.

But I do rather side with the guys in the thread so far esp. this comment by Tim:

You are not falling in love with the person, but with an 'avatar' of that person, a fantasy.

Of course, it's true that subsequently meeting someone in reality will quickly sort the wheat from the chaff in this regard. But by then you've invested a lot of time in the fantasy.

One final thought - it's interesting that in the main it seems to be a bit of guys vs girls in how they view online relationships in this thread. I hesitate to unduly stereotype but can't resist occasionally and stereotypes do often have kernels of truth... I wonder if part of the reason is men tend to be more resistant to commitment and emotional sharing. That can make online communication relatively dry - it's easier/"safer" NOT to open up, despite the relative anonymity.

In fact, that makes it worse - in the back of your mind is a "what if they're not as cool as they seem to be online" concern as voiced upthread and requoted by me. Many people are not emotional risk-takers in this area, preferring to be more in control of situations. Now, any relationship involves emotional risk-taking, but depending on your perspective, online relationships may actually involve MORE emotional risk than real-life ones because it's harder to "vet" people. I think, on reflection, that I subscribe to that perspective.

Sorry ladies of the BBS; you'll have to be satisfied with just the idle flirting.

 

[ria 75]

And I am personally insulted by his comments on BBSers.

As soon as my mom brings my lunch down to the basement, let's get him.

Damn right, bro, let me just fix my glasses with some tape, they're coming apart again, the buggers...

Aw, don't hurt him. GI Joe (That's what my sister called him when she saw his picture) is already wounded! He's a big climber and he suffered a dislocation + tendinitis of the shoulder. The Nerd Gods already exercised punishment. That's what one gets for practicing sports!

Just be very aware that you have the right kind of different. There are key things that you just cannot be different about, and I'm not talking about the big things in life, like religion, politics and football teams. I'm talking about the small but very important things that could make a difference between the two of you being able to enjoy yourselves and the two of you getting at each other's throat all the time. You have to think long and hard about what you're willing to compromise and what you're unmovable about. If you feel you just can't bear watching rugby (which is not what you said but it's a good example) you'll have to find something else to do. How long do you think you'll just sit there and watch rugby? Two weeks? Two months? Two years? Twenty?

Now I know it's early to be talking about a long-time relationship with this guy, but it's better to get these key things out of the way in your mind as soon as possible, not just regarding him, but regarding any possible love interest in your future.

And as personal experience has taught me, magic can happen if you want it to happen. If you have the guts, you -will- get the glory.

Thank you. That encourages me.
Thanks everybody for the insight and advice, but especially you and An Officer.

Now I don't care if his shoulder hurts, GI Joe better answer my latest e-mail soon! Honestly, he's been great with that: he tells me of everything he's done on his spare time. Visits, drinks with friends, losing at poker...
Maybe that's because he doesn't know what else to talk about yet/already. (We covered a few key subjects already, only a bit superficially.)
I choose to see the glass half full: he's very forthcoming. At least he has activities to report... Me, I score more points with him about my old and ongoing cultural passions than with my Internet board feats.

Not that I would want him to lurk here now , but he can't understand this (recent) part of my life. My excuse is that it practically cured me of my TV addiction - by replacing it with this other addiction - until I get a new addiction to replace this one, hopefully.

It's been almost 2 weeks since we met in person and if I don't see him again soon I'm going to doubt he exists... or really wants to see me again. *sigh*
Let us assume he has as much cold feet as I - meaning interest, and taking this seriously. Hence, slowly...

But I do rather side with the guys in the thread so far esp. this comment by Tim:

You are not falling in love with the person, but with an 'avatar' of that person, a fantasy.

Yeah, yeah. See, I am a naive sort of person: I thought people's online personas were truer to their real personalities than that. Some are.

Of course, it's true that subsequently meeting someone in reality will quickly sort the wheat from the chaff in this regard. But by then you've invested a lot of time in the fantasy.

And when that time has indeed been long, it feels like an awful waste of time if it turns bad. been there. Done that. Over the course of several years! It gave me an excuse not to look close to home.
Ria75, still a bit of a fool.

I hesitate to unduly stereotype but can't resist occasionally and stereotypes do often have kernels of truth...

I'm right there with you. I've been accused of this several times on the board. Glad you agree.

I wonder if part of the reason is men tend to be more resistant to commitment and emotional sharing. That can make online communication relatively dry - it's easier/"safer" NOT to open up, despite the relative anonymity.

Thankfully there are a few exceptions.

In fact, that makes it worse - in the back of your mind is a "what if they're not as cool as they seem to be online" concern as voiced up thread and requoted by me. Many people are not emotional risk-takers in this area, preferring to be more in control of situations. Now, any relationship involves emotional risk-taking, but depending on your perspective, online relationships may actually involve MORE emotional risk than real-life ones because it's harder to "vet" people. I think, on reflection, that I subscribe to that perspective.

I guess you're right. I hadn't thought of that with objective distance before.

Sorry ladies of the BBS; you'll have to be satisfied with just the idle flirting.

We know you, Your Royal Flirtiness.

I've come to think that people have indeed two hearts to follow, like TheStrangeQuark would like to believe: the real one and the digital one. If they are clearly labeled, then all is right.

Perhaps, also, defreezing the digital one can help defreezing the real one. (Not necessarily to the benefit of the same person. )

 

[Kestra]

To be perfectly honest, for all my idle online flirting, I'm not in a relationshippy sort of place place in my life at the moment for various reasons, so my perspective on the question is skewed as a result.

But I do rather side with the guys in the thread so far esp. this comment by Tim:

You are not falling in love with the person, but with an 'avatar' of that person, a fantasy.

Of course, it's true that subsequently meeting someone in reality will quickly sort the wheat from the chaff in this regard. But by then you've invested a lot of time in the fantasy.

One final thought - it's interesting that in the main it seems to be a bit of guys vs girls in how they view online relationships in this thread. I hesitate to unduly stereotype but can't resist occasionally and stereotypes do often have kernels of truth... I wonder if part of the reason is men tend to be more resistant to commitment and emotional sharing. That can make online communication relatively dry - it's easier/"safer" NOT to open up, despite the relative anonymity.

I've actually been surprised at how much guys open up online. It's not in a romantic context, but I've had some fairly deep conversations with people that I wouldn't have expected.

I do agree that it's easier to pretend to be someone else online, and it's easier to believe that someone is better than they are. But I think people do this all the time in RL too. As we get to know people, we adjust our perception of them. We see them in different settings, and get to know them over a longer period of time, and as that happens we begin to know more about them. I think falling in love with someone online is not entirely dissimilar from someone who falls in love quickly in RL. Neither are invalid, but merely based on a smaller amount of information. And then that love can change over time as you get to know the person more ... or disappear altogether.

 

[An Officer]

Yeah, yeah. See, I am a naive sort of person: I thought people's online personas were truer to their real personalities than that. Some are.

I agree with you. If somebody has shown consistent behaviour over a considerable period of time, I would trust my judgment and believe that to be a true personality.

You cannot keep up a false act for months on end without letting something slip. If someone is able to do that, more than likely they are a psychopath, and that would have it's own tell-tale signs.

 

[Holdfast]

To be perfectly honest, for all my idle online flirting, I'm not in a relationshippy sort of place place in my life at the moment for various reasons, so my perspective on the question is skewed as a result.

But I do rather side with the guys in the thread so far esp. this comment by Tim:

You are not falling in love with the person, but with an 'avatar' of that person, a fantasy.

Of course, it's true that subsequently meeting someone in reality will quickly sort the wheat from the chaff in this regard. But by then you've invested a lot of time in the fantasy.

One final thought - it's interesting that in the main it seems to be a bit of guys vs girls in how they view online relationships in this thread. I hesitate to unduly stereotype but can't resist occasionally and stereotypes do often have kernels of truth... I wonder if part of the reason is men tend to be more resistant to commitment and emotional sharing. That can make online communication relatively dry - it's easier/"safer" NOT to open up, despite the relative anonymity.

I've actually been surprised at how much guys open up online. It's not in a romantic context, but I've had some fairly deep conversations with people that I wouldn't have expected.

Deep is one thing. Emotionally vulnerable is another. *shrug* I did say I was stereotyping. As with most psychological theories though, it may say more about the theorist than reality. If so, so be it.

I do agree that it's easier to pretend to be someone else online, and it's easier to believe that someone is better than they are. But I think people do this all the time in RL too.

Sure, but the process is faster in real life, I think, and probably less prone to error.

You cannot keep up a false act for months on end without letting something slip. If someone is able to do that, more than likely they are a psychopath, and that would have it's own tell-tale signs.

Plenty of psychopaths out there, and most are pretty tricky to spot!

Not that I would want him to lurk here now , but he can't understand this (recent) part of my life...

We need to send him the link...

Perhaps, also, defreezing the digital one can help defreezing the real one. (Not necessarily to the benefit of the same person. )

Defrosting hearts is a lot like defrosting the freezer. Sure, things are a lot cleaner and more efficient afterwards but it takes forever, tends to be messy and there's a whole load of crap that you end up having to eat and digest or just throw away before it goes off.

Damn, I'm rather proud of that. I should print it off and put it up in my office at work to scare the patients...