IIRC, it wasn't just that Ivanova figured the Lumati ambassador wouldn't know what human sex involved, but that he'd also be too arrogant (as previously established) to confess his ignorance. It's a small detail, but not necessarilly unimportant.
Re-Watching DS9
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
"Hunter, Prey" (B5 S2E13)
"And Now for a Word" (B5 S2E14)
I'm about to put on "Facets" next. Tomorrow, I hope to put on "The Adversary" and finish off the third season of DS9!
So, it finally happened. You all warned me about Bernie Casey appearing in Babylon 5. Even though, being a child of the '80s, I'll always think of him as the History Teacher from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure where I had no problem with him in the role. Even though I liked in as Cal Hudson in "The Maquis" two-parter from DS9 (Controversial Opinion!) I was expecting something truly horrible, the way you all painted it, when it came to this episode.
And what did I think? Well... drum-roll... He did nothing for me as Cranston. The guy who's going to have that professor sniffed out. He should've seemed intimidating. He wasn't. He should've been someone who Sheridan would have a harder time outsmarting. He wasn't. At least he should've been an asshole who we love to hate. He wasn't. You get the idea. Instead, he's just there, he wants this professor apprehended, who wants to spill the beans on President Clark. That's it. And no need to waste any more than two paragraphs on Cranston.
The professor, Dr. Everett Jacobs, taught at Harvard, where Dr. Franklin went. Boston is well-represented in this episode!
Garibaldi and Franklin go looking for Jacobs in Downbelow. I love Garibaldi's rationale for how he won't be recognized. He's hardly ever down there. When he is, all they see is the badge. And puts on a hat, which is a tip of that hat to when he had to disguise himself last season. It also makes him look he should be detective in a 1940s noir crime-thriller.
Dr. Jacobs is captured by Max, played by Richard Moll from Night Court! Great to see him in such a different role! Garibaldi and Franklin have from Dr. Jacobs from Max, and then smuggle him to Ambassador Kosh's ship and make it so he can't be detected by Cranston.
Sheridan, Invanova, Garibaldi, and Franklin score their first victory against those trying to cover up what Dr. Jacobs or anyone else has to say about Clark. Go Resistance!
The other thing I want to point out is that I'm glad Sheridan pointed out something that's always been in the back of my mind and I'm sure was in the back of other people's minds: two years and we don't know much about Kosh. Nice for this episode to finally start digging into some of that. Kosh is willing to cooperate to smuggle Dr. Jacobs to safety, but he doesn't think Sheridan is ready for him to talk to at length yet, and Sheridan knows there's something going on. I'm hoping we start to find some more out during this season.
It's not a knock-out, but we're still firing on all cylinders. The momentum hasn't let up. Not even Cranston can stop it, even though he tries his hardest. I give it an 8.
And what did I think? Well... drum-roll... He did nothing for me as Cranston. The guy who's going to have that professor sniffed out. He should've seemed intimidating. He wasn't. He should've been someone who Sheridan would have a harder time outsmarting. He wasn't. At least he should've been an asshole who we love to hate. He wasn't. You get the idea. Instead, he's just there, he wants this professor apprehended, who wants to spill the beans on President Clark. That's it. And no need to waste any more than two paragraphs on Cranston.
The professor, Dr. Everett Jacobs, taught at Harvard, where Dr. Franklin went. Boston is well-represented in this episode!
Garibaldi and Franklin go looking for Jacobs in Downbelow. I love Garibaldi's rationale for how he won't be recognized. He's hardly ever down there. When he is, all they see is the badge. And puts on a hat, which is a tip of that hat to when he had to disguise himself last season. It also makes him look he should be detective in a 1940s noir crime-thriller.
Dr. Jacobs is captured by Max, played by Richard Moll from Night Court! Great to see him in such a different role! Garibaldi and Franklin have from Dr. Jacobs from Max, and then smuggle him to Ambassador Kosh's ship and make it so he can't be detected by Cranston.
Sheridan, Invanova, Garibaldi, and Franklin score their first victory against those trying to cover up what Dr. Jacobs or anyone else has to say about Clark. Go Resistance!
The other thing I want to point out is that I'm glad Sheridan pointed out something that's always been in the back of my mind and I'm sure was in the back of other people's minds: two years and we don't know much about Kosh. Nice for this episode to finally start digging into some of that. Kosh is willing to cooperate to smuggle Dr. Jacobs to safety, but he doesn't think Sheridan is ready for him to talk to at length yet, and Sheridan knows there's something going on. I'm hoping we start to find some more out during this season.
It's not a knock-out, but we're still firing on all cylinders. The momentum hasn't let up. Not even Cranston can stop it, even though he tries his hardest. I give it an 8.
"And Now for a Word" (B5 S2E14)
Very interesting angle doing an episode as a news story. Specifically, for the latest installment of the program 36 Hours on cable news channel ICN. Or the 23rd Century equivalent of cable news. The B5 Universe is now developed enough, and we know the characters well enough that they can get away with doing an episode like this.
Kim Zimmer seems like the type of news journalist who wants to dig deep and see what she can get on people as she interviews them. Like I was taught when I took a course on Journalism in college: "If it bleeds, it leads." Everyone she interviews is going to try to give their own spin, so she wants to try to cut through it.
The interview with Londo feels like an interview from straight out of 60 Minutes. All that was missing was the ticking timepiece. tick-tick, tick-tick, tick-tick, tick-tick.
G'Kar explains that the Centauri had enslaved the Narn and that the Centauri had to be driven off, while Londo says the Centauri helped the Narn and would've left if asked. Such conflicting accounts.
Sheridan tries to put a positive spin on Babylon 5, Ivanova will only answer questions up to a point, Franklin puts things as bluntly as possible, and Garibaldi just wants to make sure he doesn't put his foot in his mouth by accident.
Speaking of, "If it bleeds, it leads", Zimmer asks Delenn a very probing question: how does Delenn think Human families who lost their loved ones during the Earth-Minbari War would feel about how her appearance has changed? I don't think it even occurred to Delenn that they might think it's an insult, she begins to tear up, and ends the interview. I'm glad Delenn put a stop to it, but somehow I also think she unintentionally gave Zimmer what she was looking for. A chance to either show Delenn looking weak or looking vulnerable, depending on if Zimmer wants to spin it in a way that makes Delenn look good or look bad, if she uses the footage at all.
Following that scene is a super-intense meeting of the Ambassadors and the council, and the intensity is heightened by depicting it through the lens of an ICN camera capturing news footage rather than the standard way Babylon 5 is shot. Shots are framed tighter, when someone speaks, instead of cutting to that person, the camera has to move to catch that person. It makes it seem that much more real, intense, and unpolished.
After that, Zimmer and her news crew are in C'n'C and it makes for a completely different feel, since we're seeing from Zimmer and ICN's point-of-view, while Sheridan and his crew are caught in the middle of a battle between the Narn and the Centauri. Following the end of the battle, Zimmer does follow-up interviews of everyone, asking them if they think Babylon 5 is worth it. Everyone gives their own answers for why they think it is, and it gives insight into why each of the characters wants to be there.
I don't think this is the best episode of the season so far, but it is my favorite episode so far. I give it a 10.
Kim Zimmer seems like the type of news journalist who wants to dig deep and see what she can get on people as she interviews them. Like I was taught when I took a course on Journalism in college: "If it bleeds, it leads." Everyone she interviews is going to try to give their own spin, so she wants to try to cut through it.
The interview with Londo feels like an interview from straight out of 60 Minutes. All that was missing was the ticking timepiece. tick-tick, tick-tick, tick-tick, tick-tick.
G'Kar explains that the Centauri had enslaved the Narn and that the Centauri had to be driven off, while Londo says the Centauri helped the Narn and would've left if asked. Such conflicting accounts.
Sheridan tries to put a positive spin on Babylon 5, Ivanova will only answer questions up to a point, Franklin puts things as bluntly as possible, and Garibaldi just wants to make sure he doesn't put his foot in his mouth by accident.
Speaking of, "If it bleeds, it leads", Zimmer asks Delenn a very probing question: how does Delenn think Human families who lost their loved ones during the Earth-Minbari War would feel about how her appearance has changed? I don't think it even occurred to Delenn that they might think it's an insult, she begins to tear up, and ends the interview. I'm glad Delenn put a stop to it, but somehow I also think she unintentionally gave Zimmer what she was looking for. A chance to either show Delenn looking weak or looking vulnerable, depending on if Zimmer wants to spin it in a way that makes Delenn look good or look bad, if she uses the footage at all.
Following that scene is a super-intense meeting of the Ambassadors and the council, and the intensity is heightened by depicting it through the lens of an ICN camera capturing news footage rather than the standard way Babylon 5 is shot. Shots are framed tighter, when someone speaks, instead of cutting to that person, the camera has to move to catch that person. It makes it seem that much more real, intense, and unpolished.
After that, Zimmer and her news crew are in C'n'C and it makes for a completely different feel, since we're seeing from Zimmer and ICN's point-of-view, while Sheridan and his crew are caught in the middle of a battle between the Narn and the Centauri. Following the end of the battle, Zimmer does follow-up interviews of everyone, asking them if they think Babylon 5 is worth it. Everyone gives their own answers for why they think it is, and it gives insight into why each of the characters wants to be there.
I don't think this is the best episode of the season so far, but it is my favorite episode so far. I give it a 10.
I'm about to put on "Facets" next. Tomorrow, I hope to put on "The Adversary" and finish off the third season of DS9!
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Hey you missed out There All the Honor Lies. I know you didn't love Soul Mates, but skipping the other Peter David story entirely seems a bit extreme!
Hunter, Prey is definitely better than Soul Hunter, but it has some real problems and not just with the acting.
For some reason, this episode's got a bunch of technical errors with the monitors. And it's not just things you'd only notice if you paused and stared at the background.
There are multiple shots of actors pointing at a screen that's glitching on them and it's kind of difficult to miss. I guess they needed to keep production moving and couldn't waste any more time waiting for people to fix the issue.
For some reason, this episode's got a bunch of technical errors with the monitors. And it's not just things you'd only notice if you paused and stared at the background.
There are multiple shots of actors pointing at a screen that's glitching on them and it's kind of difficult to miss. I guess they needed to keep production moving and couldn't waste any more time waiting for people to fix the issue.
And Now for a Word was designed to help new viewers catch up and does a good job of summarising what's happening, who's involved, and how we got here. But JMS was a journalist, so how the reporters tell us about events also tells us about how the news is put together (at least in the '90s) and gives a hint of how things are like back on Earth right now. Other series have done 'a camera crew follows the characters around' stories, but I think that side of it helps it stand out.
Incidentally Kim Zimmer's character's name, Torqueman, was a deliberate reference to Torquemada, Grand Inquisitor of the Spanish Inquisition. So she's maybe not meant to be the most heroic character on the series. But I think she actually presented them surprisingly fairly in the end, especially considering that the episode's called And Now For a Word... from our sponsors, the Psi Corps. By the way, there's a sneaky secret at the end of the Psi Corps advert for people with quick eyesight.
Incidentally Kim Zimmer's character's name, Torqueman, was a deliberate reference to Torquemada, Grand Inquisitor of the Spanish Inquisition. So she's maybe not meant to be the most heroic character on the series. But I think she actually presented them surprisingly fairly in the end, especially considering that the episode's called And Now For a Word... from our sponsors, the Psi Corps. By the way, there's a sneaky secret at the end of the Psi Corps advert for people with quick eyesight.
I didn't skip over anything intentionally. I'm watching them on Tubi and am going in the order they're showing. So either Tubi messed up the order, or Tubi did something stupid and put the wrong episode on. I loved Peter David's run of DC Star Trek comics from way back when. I remember liking what I read of New Frontier as well.
There are only two episodes I'm planning on skipping, and they're from TNG, when I get to it, and only because I don't believe I can be fair or objective given how much I dislike one of the writers. But none of that's happening with DS9, VOY, or B5.
"Facets"
Jadzia Dax getting a chance to talk to each of her former hosts is a nice high-concept idea that uses science-fiction as a metaphor for someone having a chance to either spend time with a previous incarnation of themself (if you believe in reincarnation) or an ancestor. It was amusing to see all the various characters play different hosts of Dax's. Each one had a little something to offer. The two that stand the most to me are Dax's first host putting her hands behind her back and Leeta-as-Emony and her gymnastics.
Quark gets his own separate paragraph. Way too funny! But, at the same time, I have to wonder if watching Armin Shimmerman act like a woman might've given the writers ideas and that's what led to what we'll get in the sixth season with "Profit and Lace"? Speculation only. I have no idea.
Avery Brooks played a terrifying Joran. When Odo pointed out that Sisko would be alone in the holding cell with Joran, I knew something would happen. I didn't remember what, but I knew something would happen. Three things happened! It always comes in threes. First, he brings the seed of doubt Jadzia has about herself to the surface. Second, he tries to wreck Sisko's body by constantly smashing it against the forcefield. Third, after he's out of the holding cell, he tries to strangle Jadzia. Definitely pure evil.
Then, finally, there's Curzon, who's inhabiting Odo's body. Curzon sounds like someone's grandfather. He gives off an old-timey, older generation type of vibe. Curzon and Sisko hit it off, picking up where they left off, and it was great to see Sisko's friendship with Curzon in action. Then Jadzia finally spends time with Curzon and Curzon dodges all of Jadzia's questions for as long as possible, before he finally confesses that he was too hard on her and rejected her because he was in love with her. He was relieved when Jadzia reapplied for the Initiate Program after she was rejected by him, because it let him off the hook. Nice to see that he harbors some guilt underneath all the bravado. And all of Jadzia's questions were answered, which will make her a lot surer of herself going forward.
The B-Plot: I love this part of the episode. Nog being determined to prove he has what it takes to take the Entrance Exam next year for Starfleet Academy. Quark trying to sabotage his chances. Rom standing up to Quark and making sure that Nog gets another chance to test again to qualify for the Entrance Exam. I love that Rom will do anything for his son, and I think this is the first time he's ever stood up to Quark so completely.
Overall: I found this to be a great character-driven episode. I give it an 8.
Season Finale tomorrow! Maybe I'll watch The Thing (1982) to go along with it, if I have the time and have the energy for it. If not, then just "The Adversary".
Jadzia Dax getting a chance to talk to each of her former hosts is a nice high-concept idea that uses science-fiction as a metaphor for someone having a chance to either spend time with a previous incarnation of themself (if you believe in reincarnation) or an ancestor. It was amusing to see all the various characters play different hosts of Dax's. Each one had a little something to offer. The two that stand the most to me are Dax's first host putting her hands behind her back and Leeta-as-Emony and her gymnastics.
Quark gets his own separate paragraph. Way too funny! But, at the same time, I have to wonder if watching Armin Shimmerman act like a woman might've given the writers ideas and that's what led to what we'll get in the sixth season with "Profit and Lace"? Speculation only. I have no idea.
Avery Brooks played a terrifying Joran. When Odo pointed out that Sisko would be alone in the holding cell with Joran, I knew something would happen. I didn't remember what, but I knew something would happen. Three things happened! It always comes in threes. First, he brings the seed of doubt Jadzia has about herself to the surface. Second, he tries to wreck Sisko's body by constantly smashing it against the forcefield. Third, after he's out of the holding cell, he tries to strangle Jadzia. Definitely pure evil.
Then, finally, there's Curzon, who's inhabiting Odo's body. Curzon sounds like someone's grandfather. He gives off an old-timey, older generation type of vibe. Curzon and Sisko hit it off, picking up where they left off, and it was great to see Sisko's friendship with Curzon in action. Then Jadzia finally spends time with Curzon and Curzon dodges all of Jadzia's questions for as long as possible, before he finally confesses that he was too hard on her and rejected her because he was in love with her. He was relieved when Jadzia reapplied for the Initiate Program after she was rejected by him, because it let him off the hook. Nice to see that he harbors some guilt underneath all the bravado. And all of Jadzia's questions were answered, which will make her a lot surer of herself going forward.
The B-Plot: I love this part of the episode. Nog being determined to prove he has what it takes to take the Entrance Exam next year for Starfleet Academy. Quark trying to sabotage his chances. Rom standing up to Quark and making sure that Nog gets another chance to test again to qualify for the Entrance Exam. I love that Rom will do anything for his son, and I think this is the first time he's ever stood up to Quark so completely.
Overall: I found this to be a great character-driven episode. I give it an 8.
Season Finale tomorrow! Maybe I'll watch The Thing (1982) to go along with it, if I have the time and have the energy for it. If not, then just "The Adversary".
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I'm curious, which are the episodes and who's the writer?
Apparently, Brooks was so creepy as Joran in one of the takes that the director asked him to tone it down for the next take.
I would love to find that version, because he was REALLY creepy as it was.
I sent you a PM.
An interesting question.
I don't really think it's fair to compare the two for several reasons.
1. Both were portrayed by different actors who have different acting styles.
2. One time, Joran is in another body, the other is still inside the host body (Ezri).
3. Jadzia and Ezri are completely different people, so Joran may have decided to approach both differently.
4. When Jadzia met Joran, his memories had only just started being reintegrated into the rest of the Dax symbiote earlier that year. Ezri's encounter was over 3 and a half years after "FACETS", definitely more time for Joran to be at home (for lack of a better term) with Dax.
There's just too many differences in the situations for me to make a valid comparison.
"The Adversary"
I have to agree with everyone else in the episode who said, "It's about time!" It's about time Sisko was promoted to Captain! As far as I'm concerned, it should've happened when he was given command of the Defiant at the latest. He's been one of the most over-qualified officers with the rank of Commander ever. Sisko says the rank doesn't change anything, he has the assignment he wants, the crew he wants, but it's not about anything changing, it's about the recognition he deserves. When everyone says "Hip, hip, hooray! Hip, hip, hooray!", it reminds me of when Worf was promoted in Generations. Nice bit of celebratory continuity.
This episode also makes use of the Lost Era. 70 years of "in-between" that you could fill up with all kinds of things. Like the Tzenkethi War. Krajenski informs Sisko that there's been a coup on the Tzenkethi Homeworld and they're gearing up for war with the Federation again. Sisko mentions in a log that it brings back a lot of memories, most of them bad. How they retroactively added in the Tzekenthi works a lot better for me than how they retroactively added in the Cardassians in TNG's "The Wounded" because over there, the war with the Cardassians ended only one year earlier, even though it was smack in the middle of the series; whereas over here, the war with the Tzenkethi ended much much earlier.
Then, as the Defiant is headed towards Tzenkethi Space, it's taken over by a Changeling, who was posing as Krajenski and now could be anyone. Then the paranoia sets in as everyone's looking over their shoulder. Made for some great scenes between Kira and a paranoid Bolian, and then the fake-out when everyone thought Eddington was the Changeling!
Nice to finally see some more of the Defiant! I think the producers must've been setting aside a little bit of budget during most episodes this season, so they'd have enough money in the budget to build these additional sets for the Defiant, most impressive of which is Engineering.
It was interesting to see how the crew stumbled onto to figuring out how to do blood-screenings to see who's a Changeling, only to have the first attempt go botched when the Changeling tries to make it look like it's Eddington! The blood-screenings were questionable from Day One.
Toward the end of the episode, in Engineering, my favorite line is when O'Brien said, "I don't have time to play Choose the Changeling!" when Odo is there as well as the other Changeling posing as Odo. As the Changeling tries to stop O'Brien from regaining control of the Defiant, Odo has to stop him, and kills the Changeling, then, as he dies, he whispers to Odo, "You're too late. We're everywhere." It perfectly sets up the fourth season and the paranoid state everyone will be in.
The only other thing I have to say is that I love the other fake-out at the beginning of the episode, when Sisko says, "Final Commander's Log", right before we find out it's because he's being promoted to Captain!
I always forget how good this episode is but, for an episode of its type, it's perfect. I couldn't ask for anything better, given what it wanted to do, and I enjoyed it a lot. Great way to end the season. I give it a 10.
All the Season Finales so far have been 10s. If there's anything DS9 can do, it's delivering a great Season Finale.
I'm going to finish up Voyager's first season, then I'm going to take a deep dive into For All Mankind giving all my thoughts about it in the SF&F Forum. At some point during all this, I'll give my take on the third season of DS9 as a whole. After that, back to DS9 for the fourth season!
I have to agree with everyone else in the episode who said, "It's about time!" It's about time Sisko was promoted to Captain! As far as I'm concerned, it should've happened when he was given command of the Defiant at the latest. He's been one of the most over-qualified officers with the rank of Commander ever. Sisko says the rank doesn't change anything, he has the assignment he wants, the crew he wants, but it's not about anything changing, it's about the recognition he deserves. When everyone says "Hip, hip, hooray! Hip, hip, hooray!", it reminds me of when Worf was promoted in Generations. Nice bit of celebratory continuity.
This episode also makes use of the Lost Era. 70 years of "in-between" that you could fill up with all kinds of things. Like the Tzenkethi War. Krajenski informs Sisko that there's been a coup on the Tzenkethi Homeworld and they're gearing up for war with the Federation again. Sisko mentions in a log that it brings back a lot of memories, most of them bad. How they retroactively added in the Tzekenthi works a lot better for me than how they retroactively added in the Cardassians in TNG's "The Wounded" because over there, the war with the Cardassians ended only one year earlier, even though it was smack in the middle of the series; whereas over here, the war with the Tzenkethi ended much much earlier.
Then, as the Defiant is headed towards Tzenkethi Space, it's taken over by a Changeling, who was posing as Krajenski and now could be anyone. Then the paranoia sets in as everyone's looking over their shoulder. Made for some great scenes between Kira and a paranoid Bolian, and then the fake-out when everyone thought Eddington was the Changeling!
Nice to finally see some more of the Defiant! I think the producers must've been setting aside a little bit of budget during most episodes this season, so they'd have enough money in the budget to build these additional sets for the Defiant, most impressive of which is Engineering.
It was interesting to see how the crew stumbled onto to figuring out how to do blood-screenings to see who's a Changeling, only to have the first attempt go botched when the Changeling tries to make it look like it's Eddington! The blood-screenings were questionable from Day One.
Toward the end of the episode, in Engineering, my favorite line is when O'Brien said, "I don't have time to play Choose the Changeling!" when Odo is there as well as the other Changeling posing as Odo. As the Changeling tries to stop O'Brien from regaining control of the Defiant, Odo has to stop him, and kills the Changeling, then, as he dies, he whispers to Odo, "You're too late. We're everywhere." It perfectly sets up the fourth season and the paranoid state everyone will be in.
The only other thing I have to say is that I love the other fake-out at the beginning of the episode, when Sisko says, "Final Commander's Log", right before we find out it's because he's being promoted to Captain!
I always forget how good this episode is but, for an episode of its type, it's perfect. I couldn't ask for anything better, given what it wanted to do, and I enjoyed it a lot. Great way to end the season. I give it a 10.
All the Season Finales so far have been 10s. If there's anything DS9 can do, it's delivering a great Season Finale.
I'm going to finish up Voyager's first season, then I'm going to take a deep dive into For All Mankind giving all my thoughts about it in the SF&F Forum. At some point during all this, I'll give my take on the third season of DS9 as a whole. After that, back to DS9 for the fourth season!
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