Re-Watching DS9

[Lord Garth]

"HEART OF STONE" is very much like "MERIDIAN"... the B story is much stronger than the A story. I give this a 7, only because the A plot was rather meh.

I absolutely loved Nog's story, and his scene explaining why he wants to be in Starfleet is one of the two very best scenes of Nog. (The other being his talk with Vic at the end about why he is staying in the holosuite in "IT'S ONLY A PAPER MOON".)

Nog is certainly a shining example of how to do character growth in a series. And he wasn't even a lead actor.

By the seventh season, I remember thinking, "It should be Aaron Eisenberg in the front credits, not Cirroc Lofton!" They gave Jake next-to-nothing to do in the seventh season. But look at everything they were giving Nog! I think Nog being in Starfleet made his character a far more natural part of the action than Jake, the sidelined reporter.

 

[Commander Troi]

I adored Nog from this episode on. He just grew so much!

 

[DonIago]

I adored Nog from this episode on. He just grew so much!

Absolutely agreed. This episode absolutely made me sit up and take notice of Eisenberg, and I'm so glad that TPTB embraced this arc. It's hard for me to imagine any other Trek show of the era doing this well; I certainly remember being skeptical as hell of DS9 having even one child character after the Wesley Crusher debacle.

I still remember at one point speaking well of Eisenberg on my Twitter, and it meant a lot to me that he Liked my post. I regret that I never had the chance to speak with him, but I'm so glad he got to know that his performance meant a great deal to me and so many others.

He also gives great interview during WWLB.

Sorry for all the superlatives, but for me he remains one of Trek's finest examples of an actor and writing team elevating a character well beyond their starting point.

Rom standing up for his son at the end is similarly one of his finest moments.

 

[The Lensman]

I've wondered whether I would have survived watching B5 S1 if I hadn't gotten hooked on the show because of later events first.

The first time I did a full viewing of it, even knowing what was to come, it was still painful at times.

I watched both space station shows in first run and found a lot of season one for both shows rather dull. While DS9 had the better production values, and overall better acting (though I couldn't even get through the pilot recently) I found B5 a little more compelling back then probably because it was fresh and new. I've rewatched B5 multiple times and each time I appreciate Season One more. It almost feels like a different show in that it's free of things like The Rangers, or Technomages etc. It's more "hard science" in feel, and it also explores aspects of the station we never return to, like the Docker's Guild, etc.

I don't recall on which rewatch where I really fell in love with Season One for that aspect, but I always miss it the further we get away from it and into the more "Space Fantasy" like elements that come later. For me on a personal level, it did a better job of being able to re-capture my attention just as I was about to walk away. First with the B4 episode and the second being the first appearance of the Shadow vessel (which was a "holy fuck, what the hell was that?!" moment).

 

[DonIago]

Heh, it was absolutely seeing a Shadow ship for the first time that led me to move from watching an episode while feeling distinctly bored to, "What's that?!?" My friends were already fans of the series and I was hanging out with them, and to that point I'd barely been paying attention.

 

[Lord Garth]

"Deathwalker" (B5 S1E9) Re-Review

I said I wasn't going to say anything about any specific episodes unless something really jumped at me, and this qualifies. Some episodes have gone up a point in my ratings or down a point. Up or down one point? Who cares? And sometimes I'll get something different out of watching an episode the second time around. "Oh! I didn't think about that before!" It's going to happen. Not worth mentioning it until I get to the Season Review.

This episode, however, is a special case. I did more than just change my rating by a point, and I got more things different out of it than one or two instances of "I didn't notice that before!" Thus, a re-review.

Spoiler

Upfront, originally this episode didn't connect with me because I didn't feel like I knew the Narn, Minbari, Centauri, or Downbelow well enough that their outrage at Deathwalker and what she did resonated with me. It was like, "I feel bad for them, but I'm not invested enough, so I'm looking at this from the outside." Now I feel like I know them better so, strange as it sounds, they're anger resonates more with me even though I've never seen what Deathwalker has done. That's critical, so now I'm invested in their anger about injustice.

The next thing I appreciate now is the tough bind that it puts Sinclair in. He has to navigate how to deal with Deathwalker according to law while balancing and dealing with the outrage from the people of the station. He has to walk a very tight rope.

The Ambassadors also have to make a tough choice on voting what's in their jurisdiction and what's not, which shows the gaps and blind spots in interstellar law.

Finally, there's Deathwalker herself. Maybe she wants to right the wrongs she did. It's possible some of that is in there. But I think it's also true that she wants people who hate her to hate that they benefitted off of her. It's out of spite. And immortality is a whole other moral/ethical dilemma. Whether or not it's a curse or a benefit. That can and will be debated forever. But Kosh makes the decision for them, and makes sure Deathwalker is killed, stating that Humanity isn't ready for immortality. To be honest, I think the Earth Alliance would've come to that same conclusion, but the Vorlons didn't give them that chance.

Overall, re-evaluating this episode, I give it an 8.

 

[DonIago]

I'm a little confused by the above review, which seems to omit the 'other shoe' regarding Deathwalker's offer. Righting wrongs is clearly not one of her driving motivations.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm a little confused by the above review, which seems to omit the 'other shoe' regarding Deathwalker's offer. Righting wrongs is clearly not one of her driving motivations.

I think it's spite that's the overriding motivation.

 

[DonIago]

I think it's spite that's the overriding motivation.

She freely admits it is toward the end of the episode.

 

[Lord Garth]

A weekend, a snow emergency, no work, and nowhere to go. Now I can finally plow through these next 13 episodes before plowing through a ton of snow!

 

[Phily B]

I liked the Deathwalker episode, but it had two really annoying, big problems.

- The Dilgar supernova. Kind of like the Romulan supernova, just made no sense.
- The Vorlon turning up and fixing all the problems was lame.

 

[Orac]

I disagree. It was awesome.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I found Kosh's intervention to be a deus ex machina that actually worked, because it says more about the Vorlons than the rest of season 1 combined.

 

[Phily B]

Looks like Babylon 5 isn't available for streaming in UK unless I pay 50 quid. Very cool.

 

[Orac]

That's a lotta squid.

 

[DonIago]

I think KRAD does a reasonable job of pointing out some of the weaknesses of the episode in his review of it. I don't agree with all of it, but I sympathize with most of it.

Babylon 5 Rewatch: “Deathwalker” - Reactor

Sinclair has to navigate some delicate political waters, while G'Kar tries to purchase the secret to immortality...

reactormag.com

 

[Lord Garth]

I think KRAD does a reasonable job of pointing out some of the weaknesses of the episode in his review of it. I don't agree with all of it, but I sympathize with most of it.

Babylon 5 Rewatch: “Deathwalker” - Reactor

Sinclair has to navigate some delicate political waters, while G'Kar tries to purchase the secret to immortality...

reactormag.com

I've been trying to cut down on summary. Interesting he has a lot of it. An insightful review. There's one point of his that I have a counterpoint for, even though I'm still only 20% of the way through the series.

KRAD says:

Spoiler

"In fact, the ending would’ve worked way better if Na’Toth fulfilled her blood oath by killing Jha’dur instead of relying on a deus ex Kosh to end things. As it is, the fact that Kosh is able to murder a sentient being without due process and without any consequences is staggering, and should be met with a lot more outrage and reaction than, “Oh, well, Vorlons will be Vorlons, la dee dah.” Plus, as I said in the plot description, why is Jha’dur flying by herself to Earth? It makes no sense, but it’s a necessary plot hole, because if she was being escorted, Kosh would also have to murder innocent EarthForce personnel, and we can’t have that…"

My take on that:

Spoiler

I think there's not much outrage because most people aren't going to care that the Deathwalker was killed. They might be upset that she wasn't tried or didn't die their way, but people seemed to feel bloody-minded about Deathwalker, so they wouldn't mind that Kosh killed her.

As far as Earth government, I feel like it's not exactly above-board. I don't know, but I suspect if politicians become a major part of B5, there's going to be corruption. That's the way politicians are depicted Post-Watergate. They can't be trusted. So, while they'd like to deal with Deathwalker the proper way, they aren't going to shed a tear if Kosh takes care of their problem for them.

Kosh is a Vorlon Ambassador, so he has diplomatic immunity. Which puts him in the perfect position to be the one to kill Deathwalker. I don't deny this is pushing diplomatic immunity to the limits, but there we are.

My first B5 Argument!

 

[DonIago]

I've been trying to cut down on summary. Interesting he has a lot of it. An insightful review. There's one point of his that I have a counterpoint for, even though I'm still only 20% of the way through the series.

KRAD says:

Spoiler

"In fact, the ending would’ve worked way better if Na’Toth fulfilled her blood oath by killing Jha’dur instead of relying on a deus ex Kosh to end things. As it is, the fact that Kosh is able to murder a sentient being without due process and without any consequences is staggering, and should be met with a lot more outrage and reaction than, “Oh, well, Vorlons will be Vorlons, la dee dah.” Plus, as I said in the plot description, why is Jha’dur flying by herself to Earth? It makes no sense, but it’s a necessary plot hole, because if she was being escorted, Kosh would also have to murder innocent EarthForce personnel, and we can’t have that…"

My take on that:

Spoiler

I think there's not much outrage because most people aren't going to care that the Deathwalker was killed. They might be upset that she wasn't tried or didn't die their way, but people seemed to feel bloody-minded about Kosh killing Deathwalker.

As far as Earth government, I feel like it's not exactly above-board. I don't know, but I suspect if politicians become a major part of B5, there's going to be corruption. That's the way politicians are depicted Post-Watergate. They can't be trusted. So, while they'd like to deal with Deathwalker the proper way, they aren't going to shed a tear if Kosh takes care of their problem for them.

Kosh is a Vorlon Ambassador, so he has diplomatic immunity. Which puts him in the perfect position to be the one to kill Deathwalker. I don't deny this is pushing diplomatic immunity to the limits, but there we are.

My first B5 Argument!

Spoiler: Deathwalker

That's a point where I do kind of disagree with KRAD. I'm not exactly thrilled when moral arguments get mooted by deus ex machina so nobody has to face hard decisions, but given that it was the Vorlons that pushed the button, I kind of have to ask...what was anyone else supposed to do about it? Even for the Minbari, who I believe are portrayed as the most advanced race we've seen to this point, starting a war with the Vorlons would be suicidal, and giving Kosh a firm talking to strikes me as a futile endeavor.

All that said, it would have been interesting if it Na'toth had been the one to push the button, and given her generally limited role in the series (I know this isn't her last appearance, but I'm not sure she makes a particularly meaningful appearance after this), taking her out of play for the short or long-term might not have changed very much.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Oh, I should start linking to my own B5 review site!

I pretty much agree with Donlago, the reaction to what happened tells us a lot about the relative power levels of everyone involved.

 

[DonIago]

...now I'm kind of wondering how things on B5 would have evolved if the council had voted to expel Kosh and he'd agreed to leave.

I suppose once things started heating up Our Heroes still might have been begging for Vorlon intervention, but without the relationship they had with Kosh, things might have progressed differently.