The baddest moment in all Trek, IMO.
Re-Watching DS9
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
I've read the 2257 and 2258 Universe Today news articles for B5. Some of it I understand, but most of it not. If they were 2257 and 2258 news articles in the Star Trek universe, then I'd be able to follow everything! Go figure.
2364-2375 would be better for a fictional newspaper, though. A lot more to work with. It's the most fleshed out period of Star Trek. Some people might not like that, but I think it's a good thing. Especially with the Maquis, where it spans TNG, DS9, and VOY. But that's getting ahead of myself.
2364-2375 would be better for a fictional newspaper, though. A lot more to work with. It's the most fleshed out period of Star Trek. Some people might not like that, but I think it's a good thing. Especially with the Maquis, where it spans TNG, DS9, and VOY. But that's getting ahead of myself.
Lots will make more sense as you go.
Yes! I wish I'd thought of this for the "Defining Moments for Each Captain" thread.
"Infection" (B5 S1E4)
This started out as a "meh" episode, but the end saved it. The Ikarran monster did nothing for me, and I can already tell that "a monster on the loose in the station" is becoming a common Babylon 5 trope. Sinclair even risks himself to save the station. Again. What saves the episode is that Garabaldi points this out to Sinclair, proving the series is self-aware of this problem and says it's Sinclair's problem. Garabaldi then gives an extremely insightful observation: Sometimes war vets with PTSD don't know how to live in peace, so they look for a way to die in a blaze of glory. Sinclair doesn't have an answer for that.
But what Sinclair does have an answer for is when an ISN (Interstellar News Network) journalist asks him about why do they travel into space. Sinclair gives an answer that's been a belief of mine for most of my life: We need space travel because one day the Sun will engulf the Earth and all that Humanity ever was will be lost if we don't leave or at least have Humans living elsewhere beyond the solar system. It benefits us in our super-long-term future. At the end of the day, literally, it benefits our own survival.
Nice to get see more of Dr. Franklin. This is my opening to say he seems like a Doctor I could picture if I went into a Doctor's Office. There's just something about him. He certainly has the look and the demeanor. Dr. Hendricks, the scientist who wants Franklin to help him with his research, turns out to be a scientist only interested in profit and is someone with no ethics. That storyline went in a direction I didn't see coming. In the end, Hendricks gets arrested.
All the best stuff happens at the end of the episode. The rest of it, it was just kind of there. I give it a 6.
But what Sinclair does have an answer for is when an ISN (Interstellar News Network) journalist asks him about why do they travel into space. Sinclair gives an answer that's been a belief of mine for most of my life: We need space travel because one day the Sun will engulf the Earth and all that Humanity ever was will be lost if we don't leave or at least have Humans living elsewhere beyond the solar system. It benefits us in our super-long-term future. At the end of the day, literally, it benefits our own survival.
Nice to get see more of Dr. Franklin. This is my opening to say he seems like a Doctor I could picture if I went into a Doctor's Office. There's just something about him. He certainly has the look and the demeanor. Dr. Hendricks, the scientist who wants Franklin to help him with his research, turns out to be a scientist only interested in profit and is someone with no ethics. That storyline went in a direction I didn't see coming. In the end, Hendricks gets arrested.
All the best stuff happens at the end of the episode. The rest of it, it was just kind of there. I give it a 6.
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That is a very generous score for an episode that's often regarded as a being a bit of a low point. But there are definitely things to praise about it. The way Sinclair's action hero tendencies are revealed to be part of his arc, the interview at the end, and I even liked his Kirk speech to the Ikaaran war machine. Hang on Ikaarans are from Enterprise, I'm thinking of Ikarrans.
Anyway, because I'm also feeling generous I'm going to give it a 5. Even if it does have the most ridiculously long walk-and-talk exposition scene in sci-fi history.
Anyway, because I'm also feeling generous I'm going to give it a 5. Even if it does have the most ridiculously long walk-and-talk exposition scene in sci-fi history.
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I was going to give it a 5 until I saw the pep talk about PTSD and, more importantly, Sinclair gave the best justification I've ever seen for space travel. I'm biased, of course, because it matches mine.
If someone ever voices my own religious beliefs, "I won't know until I die and I'm not in a hurry to die," I'll be similarly amazed and give points for that.
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"Shadowplay"
This episode had not only an A-Plot and a B-Plot, but also a C-Plot. The title "Showplay" is a like wordplay of being in the shadows. In the A-Plot, the town that the holographic people live in is like a proverbial shadow that shields them from outside of it where they'd disappear. In the B-Plot, Jake is shadowing O'Brien and learning about Engineering to increase his aptitude. In the C-Plot, Kira and Bariel go out on a date and fall in love while Quark is being shady in the shadow and committing crimes with an accomplice, his cousin, where only the cousin gets caught.
I'll untangle all of this one plot at a time.
The A-Plot: Odo and Dax are a teaming up we don't see often, but it makes sense here: the investigator and the science officer. Perfect combination to figure out what's wrong with a village on a planet in the Gamma Quadrant: they're holograms, except for Rurigan, the village elder. It also builds up the Dominion as a threat, since they were responsible for the destruction of where Rurigan originally came from.
The heart of this part of the story boils down to what the perception of being real is. The holograms in the village have existed for 30 years and they're real to Rurigan and real to Odo and Dax. The Doctor on VOY will think of himself as real, and Vic Fontaine later on in DS9 will also think he's real, so this is a forerunner of the issues dealing with those characters and continues throughline of what started in TNG with asking how real Moriarty is. Rurigan cares for his daughter and his granddaughter, Taya, as much as he would if they were flesh-and-blood.
It was a nice touch at the end to have Odo turn into a spinning top for Taya.
The B-Plot: I like that they further drive home that Jake isn't Wesley. Sisko assumes his son will go to Starfleet Academy. The audience at this point in 1994 probably also assumed that might happen. Jake says he doesn't want to. But he doesn't tell his father until after he tells this to O'Brien. Then O'Brien tells Jake how his father wanted him to be something else as well. In fact, I'll take it a step further and say anyone who worked on DS9 the series was probably told by their parents not to pursue a career in show biz, so this is something everyone involved could relate to. It's something I could relate to. And Sisko understood. He should after all, since his father wanted him to be a chef!
The C-Plot: They've really amped up Quark's shadiness this season. I have a theory now that Quark is allowed to remain free only because Odo is playing some sort of long game. He's using Quark to get to someone else. Maybe several someone elses. I'm on the watch-out now, because I think this will subtly play out in the background. And while Odo's away, Kira lets Quark know she's watching him too, and lets him know in no uncertain terms how much she doesn't like him.
Which is why Quark found a way to indirectly arrange for Bariel to arrive on the station. I liked seeing the budding romance between Kira and Bariel, despite the fact that they don't agree about religious views. When Kira was telling Bariel how much she disagreed with him... let me put it this way: imagine people disagreeing about religion and politics today! Some potentially crazy arguments could've sparked. That's what their disagreements over religion and politics felt like. So, I guess it's true that opposites attract. At least when it comes to Kira and Bariel. He's also so calm and retrained, while Kira's passionate and unrestrained. It's an interesting combination.
Summing Up: I think this episode has a lot going for it, but it's also pretty laid back and slice-of-life. It's better than a 7, but it's not an 8. I'll go with a 7.5.
This episode had not only an A-Plot and a B-Plot, but also a C-Plot. The title "Showplay" is a like wordplay of being in the shadows. In the A-Plot, the town that the holographic people live in is like a proverbial shadow that shields them from outside of it where they'd disappear. In the B-Plot, Jake is shadowing O'Brien and learning about Engineering to increase his aptitude. In the C-Plot, Kira and Bariel go out on a date and fall in love while Quark is being shady in the shadow and committing crimes with an accomplice, his cousin, where only the cousin gets caught.
I'll untangle all of this one plot at a time.
The A-Plot: Odo and Dax are a teaming up we don't see often, but it makes sense here: the investigator and the science officer. Perfect combination to figure out what's wrong with a village on a planet in the Gamma Quadrant: they're holograms, except for Rurigan, the village elder. It also builds up the Dominion as a threat, since they were responsible for the destruction of where Rurigan originally came from.
The heart of this part of the story boils down to what the perception of being real is. The holograms in the village have existed for 30 years and they're real to Rurigan and real to Odo and Dax. The Doctor on VOY will think of himself as real, and Vic Fontaine later on in DS9 will also think he's real, so this is a forerunner of the issues dealing with those characters and continues throughline of what started in TNG with asking how real Moriarty is. Rurigan cares for his daughter and his granddaughter, Taya, as much as he would if they were flesh-and-blood.
It was a nice touch at the end to have Odo turn into a spinning top for Taya.
The B-Plot: I like that they further drive home that Jake isn't Wesley. Sisko assumes his son will go to Starfleet Academy. The audience at this point in 1994 probably also assumed that might happen. Jake says he doesn't want to. But he doesn't tell his father until after he tells this to O'Brien. Then O'Brien tells Jake how his father wanted him to be something else as well. In fact, I'll take it a step further and say anyone who worked on DS9 the series was probably told by their parents not to pursue a career in show biz, so this is something everyone involved could relate to. It's something I could relate to. And Sisko understood. He should after all, since his father wanted him to be a chef!
The C-Plot: They've really amped up Quark's shadiness this season. I have a theory now that Quark is allowed to remain free only because Odo is playing some sort of long game. He's using Quark to get to someone else. Maybe several someone elses. I'm on the watch-out now, because I think this will subtly play out in the background. And while Odo's away, Kira lets Quark know she's watching him too, and lets him know in no uncertain terms how much she doesn't like him.
Which is why Quark found a way to indirectly arrange for Bariel to arrive on the station. I liked seeing the budding romance between Kira and Bariel, despite the fact that they don't agree about religious views. When Kira was telling Bariel how much she disagreed with him... let me put it this way: imagine people disagreeing about religion and politics today! Some potentially crazy arguments could've sparked. That's what their disagreements over religion and politics felt like. So, I guess it's true that opposites attract. At least when it comes to Kira and Bariel. He's also so calm and retrained, while Kira's passionate and unrestrained. It's an interesting combination.
Summing Up: I think this episode has a lot going for it, but it's also pretty laid back and slice-of-life. It's better than a 7, but it's not an 8. I'll go with a 7.5.
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I've always thought of Shadowplay as kind of the flipside of Paradise. Both are about two characters investigating a mysterious situation at a colony with a shady leader, and both ultimately lead to a device that needs to be turned off and the inhabitants being told the truth. But Paradise is all darkness and manipulation while Shadowplay is light and compassion. Alixus escaped the Federation, used technology to strand people on a planet, and manipulated them into living in her idea of an ideal community, while Rurigan escaped the Dominion, used technology to create people on a planet, and let them live how they wanted.
In the end, Alixus' tale is tragic because of what she did to others, while Rurigan's is tragic because of what was done to him. And both stories end with ambiguity. Did Alixus give her victims a more rewarding life than the one they were heading for? Are Rurigan's holograms actually alive? I'm glad it doesn't outright say that they're real people like Moriarty and the Doctor. Maybe leaving the simulation on for so long has led to emergent intelligence in the children it has produced, or maybe not. The important thing is that Rurigan cares about them... and Odo too.
So I give Shadowplay the exact same score as Paradise, whatever that was. Probably a 7 or something.
In the end, Alixus' tale is tragic because of what she did to others, while Rurigan's is tragic because of what was done to him. And both stories end with ambiguity. Did Alixus give her victims a more rewarding life than the one they were heading for? Are Rurigan's holograms actually alive? I'm glad it doesn't outright say that they're real people like Moriarty and the Doctor. Maybe leaving the simulation on for so long has led to emergent intelligence in the children it has produced, or maybe not. The important thing is that Rurigan cares about them... and Odo too.
So I give Shadowplay the exact same score as Paradise, whatever that was. Probably a 7 or something.
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I actually love this one. It brilliantly handles THREE stories within the same episode while not feeling like its too much. A very diffucult task to achieve in itself.
The village story was excellent.
This also gives us another example of Sisko as a great role model for fatherhood. (And just parenting in general... both mothers and fathers should take notes for situations like this.)
And Kira and Bareil are good together... I've always felt he was an important step for Kira's personal growth in that she needed someone to help give her that sense of peace that she never really had. She might have gotten there eventually, but Bareil exudes such a calmness and centeredness that I think she began to take some of that on... at least, in private. Later, this built up more until she became a more centered in her daily life.
I personally give this a 10... just outstanding all the way through.
The village story was excellent.
This also gives us another example of Sisko as a great role model for fatherhood. (And just parenting in general... both mothers and fathers should take notes for situations like this.)
And Kira and Bareil are good together... I've always felt he was an important step for Kira's personal growth in that she needed someone to help give her that sense of peace that she never really had. She might have gotten there eventually, but Bareil exudes such a calmness and centeredness that I think she began to take some of that on... at least, in private. Later, this built up more until she became a more centered in her daily life.
I personally give this a 10... just outstanding all the way through.
To paraphrase Boyce, "Sometimes a man will tell his bartender things he'll never tell a policeman." (rather than "his doctor")
This may have been my favorite part of the episode. I always liked seeing Odo briefly dropping his gruff facade.
This is planning a little bit ahead, but I want to do more than just a review of "The Jem'Hadar" when I get up to it. I want to do a Zoom Session where we react if anyone is up for it. Not something I want to do all the time but, for Big Episodes like those, I think it would be fun.
What do you think?
What do you think?
Depends on the timing.
I'm game. Though it would depend on what time you were thinking of. (Also, what time zone.)
Depends. When?
I'm in Boston, so the Eastern Time Zone.
Sundays work best for me, but if that doesn't work for anyone, then we can go with another day. I can rearrange things on my end so we can make it happen.
At the pace I'm going, it'll probably be the first half of December. If I don't get to "The Jem'Hadar" by the middle of that month, then it'll be January.
Sundays work best for me, but if that doesn't work for anyone, then we can go with another day. I can rearrange things on my end so we can make it happen.
At the pace I'm going, it'll probably be the first half of December. If I don't get to "The Jem'Hadar" by the middle of that month, then it'll be January.
DS9 was much better and deeper than TNG about relations between characters.
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