Re-Watching DS9
- Thread starter Lord Garth
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"Visionary"
After about two-thirds of the season, the Romulans finally arrive on Deep Space Nine and want intelligence reports on the Dominion since they're allowing the cloaking device to be used on the Defiant. They're a bunch of skeptics who don't believe anything and want to twist anything Sisko, Kira, and the other characters say. The Romulans here remind me of the committee that Ellen Ripley had to deal with at the beginning of Aliens, who were similarly skeptical of everything. The Romulans are skeptical to the point of absurdity. How could Odo know any details about what the Founders are up to if he was sent away as an infant? That's like assuming a foreigner who's lived away from that foreign land all of their life knows what the government officials from the over there are up to. To quote Ripley, "Did IQs drop while I was away?!" One of the Romulans says, "I find that hard to believe." Then Sisko says my favorite line in the episode, "It's the truth whether you choose to believe it or not."
In retrospect, I don't think the Romulans were serious about the interrogations at all. They were going through the motions because they planned to have the Wormhole destroyed anyway and have Deep Space Nine destroyed in the process. The Romulans have a cloaked Warbird right nearby and they set up TECH to carry out their plan. To quote the expression, "Make it look like an accident!"
The TECH makes O'Brien jump five hours into the future briefly, every now and then, where he sees what happens, and he's able to warn everyone in the present to keep these things from happening. The mechanics of this subplot are well and good, but what I really liked were the interactions between O'Brien and O'Brien!
Before Kira's interrogated by the Romulans, Sisko tells her to be diplomatic. Kira says she's always diplomatic (right) and then things go just as well as I thought.
She storms right out! One HUGE missed opportunity: we should've seen the Romulans interrogating Odo! How did this not get added in? Even a glimpse?
By the end, between O'Brien's time-jumps, Odo's detective work, and Dax's figuring out what's causing TECH, they piece together not only that the Romulans have a cloaked ship, but exactly where it is. Sisko tells the Romulans he has 5,000 photo torpedoes pointed right at it, then the Romulans drop their charade and leave.
I have to say, after this episode, I'm surprised the Romulans let the Defiant keep its cloaking device. If these Romulans were any indication, it sounds like they have all the information they need that they hoped to gain. Not too long after this, the Tal'Shiar works in conjunction with the Obsidian Order to plan an attack on the Founder's Homeworld.
Overall, I had fun watching this episode, I loved the craziness going on with O'Brien, and this episode looks back on what's happened while setting up what's to come. I give it an 8.
After about two-thirds of the season, the Romulans finally arrive on Deep Space Nine and want intelligence reports on the Dominion since they're allowing the cloaking device to be used on the Defiant. They're a bunch of skeptics who don't believe anything and want to twist anything Sisko, Kira, and the other characters say. The Romulans here remind me of the committee that Ellen Ripley had to deal with at the beginning of Aliens, who were similarly skeptical of everything. The Romulans are skeptical to the point of absurdity. How could Odo know any details about what the Founders are up to if he was sent away as an infant? That's like assuming a foreigner who's lived away from that foreign land all of their life knows what the government officials from the over there are up to. To quote Ripley, "Did IQs drop while I was away?!" One of the Romulans says, "I find that hard to believe." Then Sisko says my favorite line in the episode, "It's the truth whether you choose to believe it or not."
In retrospect, I don't think the Romulans were serious about the interrogations at all. They were going through the motions because they planned to have the Wormhole destroyed anyway and have Deep Space Nine destroyed in the process. The Romulans have a cloaked Warbird right nearby and they set up TECH to carry out their plan. To quote the expression, "Make it look like an accident!"
The TECH makes O'Brien jump five hours into the future briefly, every now and then, where he sees what happens, and he's able to warn everyone in the present to keep these things from happening. The mechanics of this subplot are well and good, but what I really liked were the interactions between O'Brien and O'Brien!
Before Kira's interrogated by the Romulans, Sisko tells her to be diplomatic. Kira says she's always diplomatic (right) and then things go just as well as I thought.
She storms right out! One HUGE missed opportunity: we should've seen the Romulans interrogating Odo! How did this not get added in? Even a glimpse?By the end, between O'Brien's time-jumps, Odo's detective work, and Dax's figuring out what's causing TECH, they piece together not only that the Romulans have a cloaked ship, but exactly where it is. Sisko tells the Romulans he has 5,000 photo torpedoes pointed right at it, then the Romulans drop their charade and leave.
I have to say, after this episode, I'm surprised the Romulans let the Defiant keep its cloaking device. If these Romulans were any indication, it sounds like they have all the information they need that they hoped to gain. Not too long after this, the Tal'Shiar works in conjunction with the Obsidian Order to plan an attack on the Founder's Homeworld.
Overall, I had fun watching this episode, I loved the craziness going on with O'Brien, and this episode looks back on what's happened while setting up what's to come. I give it an 8.
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"VISIONARY" is always a fun one for me. I also love the O'Brien/Bashir scenes.
If there is one episode that exemplifies the 'let's torture O'Brien' trope, it's this one. The episode STARTS OFF with him on his back because of an injury, he gets beaten in a bar brawl, and he dies three times (cumulative brain problem from the jumps, shot from the wall device, radiation poinsoning at the end). I keep wondering if the FARSCAPE writers had O'Brien in mind when they wrote John Crichton. (It's a rare episode when he isn't beaten, shot, stabbed, tortured, or abused either physically or mentally.)
i'd give this an 8, too. O'Brien centered episodes tend to be very, very good, and a good part of it is due to Colm himself.
If there is one episode that exemplifies the 'let's torture O'Brien' trope, it's this one. The episode STARTS OFF with him on his back because of an injury, he gets beaten in a bar brawl, and he dies three times (cumulative brain problem from the jumps, shot from the wall device, radiation poinsoning at the end). I keep wondering if the FARSCAPE writers had O'Brien in mind when they wrote John Crichton. (It's a rare episode when he isn't beaten, shot, stabbed, tortured, or abused either physically or mentally.)
i'd give this an 8, too. O'Brien centered episodes tend to be very, very good, and a good part of it is due to Colm himself.
I love Visionary, it's one of my favourite episodes of season 3. In fact, I might even put it slightly ahead of Civil Defense. It's like a good TNG episode (O'Brien time jumping) combined with a good DS9 episode (Romulan treaty) to make something that's at least as great as its parts.
It gets a 10 from me and I don't give them out often.
In fact my top five DS9 episodes up to this point would be:
It gets a 10 from me and I don't give them out often.
In fact my top five DS9 episodes up to this point would be:
- The Search, Part 1
- Visionary
- Civil Defense
- The Jem'Hadar
- The Circle
Pausing a YouTube video I'm watching that shows a full rebuild of a 1969 Pontiac Firebird because I still have DS9 on my mind. Restoring 1920s films (and Geordi restoring the Enterprise-D) has gotten me interested in watching mechanics restore cars. Which makes my godsister's husband happy, since he restores cars. But anyway...
I just had a thought about why the Romulans let the Defiant keep the cloaking device. It's right there in the episode when Kira asks, "Why don't you send your own ships?" And the Romulans being the Romulans, well, they're too cowardly to do that. Especially on their own. So, they'll just deny their plans to destroy the Wormhole and continue to let Starfleet do what it does.
DARTS! How could I forget to mention them? I had some friends I used to hang out with every now and then who were frequent dart-players, they were also frequent drinkers (part of why I had to cut ties with them, if you know what I mean), and they'd invite me sometimes to play. But I just didn't get the appeal.
Still, the game fits DS9. Darts have a sharp edge. DS9 has a sharper edge than TOS, TNG, and VOY. It's a bar game. Quark's is an actual bar whereas Ten Forward is really more of a lounge. And O'Brien's right. In an atmosphere like Quark's, how do you not have darts? All they need, and I've said this before, are TV screens somewhere.
I love when Quark throws a bunch at a time and O'Brien freaks out. "You don't throw darts like THAT!!!!"
Maybe I will give darts another try some time. Just with a different crowd. Probably not. But who knows?
I just had a thought about why the Romulans let the Defiant keep the cloaking device. It's right there in the episode when Kira asks, "Why don't you send your own ships?" And the Romulans being the Romulans, well, they're too cowardly to do that. Especially on their own. So, they'll just deny their plans to destroy the Wormhole and continue to let Starfleet do what it does.
DARTS! How could I forget to mention them? I had some friends I used to hang out with every now and then who were frequent dart-players, they were also frequent drinkers (part of why I had to cut ties with them, if you know what I mean), and they'd invite me sometimes to play. But I just didn't get the appeal.
Still, the game fits DS9. Darts have a sharp edge. DS9 has a sharper edge than TOS, TNG, and VOY. It's a bar game. Quark's is an actual bar whereas Ten Forward is really more of a lounge. And O'Brien's right. In an atmosphere like Quark's, how do you not have darts? All they need, and I've said this before, are TV screens somewhere.
I love when Quark throws a bunch at a time and O'Brien freaks out. "You don't throw darts like THAT!!!!"
Maybe I will give darts another try some time. Just with a different crowd. Probably not. But who knows?
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I love the twist in the episode where "our" O'Brien is replaced by slightly from the future O'Brien.
Strangely enough, this doesn't get talked about even a fraction as much as the "Deadlock" situation on VOY where people seem to get perpetually into debates about which ship is the original, as though it would matter either way.
Strangely enough, this doesn't get talked about even a fraction as much as the "Deadlock" situation on VOY where people seem to get perpetually into debates about which ship is the original, as though it would matter either way.
Because everyone loves O'Brien... not everyone loves VOYAGER.
Joking aside, it might be because of two reasons.
1. "DEADLOCK" had the entire crew duplicated.
2. O'Brien wasn't duplicated... the one that came back just happens to be a couple hours older than the one who went forward to find out hiw the station blew up.
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"The Long Dark" (B5 S2E5)
BTW, just for the Hell of it:
And one more!
As I put on this episode, and I first saw Dwight Schultz, my first thought was "Is that Dwight Schultz?" Then I got a closer look at him, and I thought, "It is!" And he's acting all kinds of crazy and ridiculous. My immediate next thought was, "This is either going to be really good, really bad, or so bad it's good..."
Then it took another turn and I thought, "It might not be any of those." A 100-year-old ship, the USS Copernicus, comes within range of Babylon 5, the crew is in cryo-stasis and one of them is still alive. It was nice to learn more about Earth History in this series. I've been curious about it. So, it was the Centauri gave Earth jumpgate technology? And it was 100 years ago. Doing the math in my head, it looks like Earth in Star Trek and Earth in B5 became a main player on the interstellar stage around the same time. The jumpgate here would be similar then to when Starfleet achieved high warp (Warp 5 and above). The middle of the 22nd Century. Interesting parallel.
The most interesting thing about the episode. Then there's the rest of it. Looking at what else stands out.
Dwight Schultz does a good performance as a vet with PTSD. Amis is different enough from Murdock in The A-Team and Barclay in TNG/VOY to feel like his own character, but very much in the Dwight Schultz flavor. Amus' craziness is something Garibaldi understands, and the craziness leads them to this weird energy monster thing. Garibaldi understands and relates to Amus a lot better than Geordi or Harkins understand and relate to Barclay.
When Sheridan, Ivanova, Garibaldi, and the others are zapping at the monster, it reminds me of The Real Ghostbusters cartoon. I used to watch that when I was a kid and I know JMS was a prominent writer on it. I can't remember a single episode, it's been almost 40 years (pretend I didn't say that!) but, for him, it was probably a nice callback. For me, I'm thinking, "This feels out of place with B5!"
Mariah Cirrus is the woman who was revived from the Corpernicus and her husband was murdered by the monster while they were in cryo-stasis. She awakens to a world not much different than what she remembers except now it's on an interstellar scale. Cirrus and Franklin develop feelings for each other, and I appreciate that they both stopped themselves from taking it too fast. I've got a feeling she'll be back.
At first I thought this was going to be a filler episode. Until Sheridan and Ivanova talk about how the energy monster was heading towards Z'ha'dum, the homeworld of the Shadows. The Shadows have been deep in the shadows so far this season. Hopefully that changes soon. The end of this episode focusing on G'Kar zeroing in on them gives me hope.
Even though this episode has some things going for it, it still felt mediocre. It makes me look forward to what's to come but, as for the episode itself? I give it a 6.
Then it took another turn and I thought, "It might not be any of those." A 100-year-old ship, the USS Copernicus, comes within range of Babylon 5, the crew is in cryo-stasis and one of them is still alive. It was nice to learn more about Earth History in this series. I've been curious about it. So, it was the Centauri gave Earth jumpgate technology? And it was 100 years ago. Doing the math in my head, it looks like Earth in Star Trek and Earth in B5 became a main player on the interstellar stage around the same time. The jumpgate here would be similar then to when Starfleet achieved high warp (Warp 5 and above). The middle of the 22nd Century. Interesting parallel.
The most interesting thing about the episode. Then there's the rest of it. Looking at what else stands out.
Dwight Schultz does a good performance as a vet with PTSD. Amis is different enough from Murdock in The A-Team and Barclay in TNG/VOY to feel like his own character, but very much in the Dwight Schultz flavor. Amus' craziness is something Garibaldi understands, and the craziness leads them to this weird energy monster thing. Garibaldi understands and relates to Amus a lot better than Geordi or Harkins understand and relate to Barclay.
When Sheridan, Ivanova, Garibaldi, and the others are zapping at the monster, it reminds me of The Real Ghostbusters cartoon. I used to watch that when I was a kid and I know JMS was a prominent writer on it. I can't remember a single episode, it's been almost 40 years (pretend I didn't say that!) but, for him, it was probably a nice callback. For me, I'm thinking, "This feels out of place with B5!"
Mariah Cirrus is the woman who was revived from the Corpernicus and her husband was murdered by the monster while they were in cryo-stasis. She awakens to a world not much different than what she remembers except now it's on an interstellar scale. Cirrus and Franklin develop feelings for each other, and I appreciate that they both stopped themselves from taking it too fast. I've got a feeling she'll be back.
At first I thought this was going to be a filler episode. Until Sheridan and Ivanova talk about how the energy monster was heading towards Z'ha'dum, the homeworld of the Shadows. The Shadows have been deep in the shadows so far this season. Hopefully that changes soon. The end of this episode focusing on G'Kar zeroing in on them gives me hope.
Even though this episode has some things going for it, it still felt mediocre. It makes me look forward to what's to come but, as for the episode itself? I give it a 6.
BTW, just for the Hell of it:
And one more!
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You've been very positive about B5 season 2 so far so I've been curious about what you'd think when you reached this one. There's a lot that's good in it, but overall it's a bit of a misstep.
I have to agree about "THE LONG DARK".
For me, it was not a very good one, comparatively speaking with the rest of the season and series.
I thinknwhat didn't work the most was Mariah... I just didn't feel her plight as badly as I did with Amus.
One other thing that bothered me... Franklin. Taking your patient to your quarters instead of Medlab? Especially after she just lost her husband and is, at first, suspected of killing him?
He didn't come off that well here.
For me, it was not a very good one, comparatively speaking with the rest of the season and series.
I thinknwhat didn't work the most was Mariah... I just didn't feel her plight as badly as I did with Amus.
One other thing that bothered me... Franklin. Taking your patient to your quarters instead of Medlab? Especially after she just lost her husband and is, at first, suspected of killing him?
He didn't come off that well here.
If "The Long Dark" is the low-point of Season 2, then that speaks pretty well about the rest of it. If someone put a gun to my head and asked me to choose between "Infection" and "The Long Dark", I'll go with "The Long Dark" without even having to think about it.
Not good for Dr. Franklin that he was prominent in both episodes, though. He's starting to look like a magnet for weaker episodes!
Not good for Dr. Franklin that he was prominent in both episodes, though. He's starting to look like a magnet for weaker episodes!
To be fair, it's not like Bashir's any better!
This isn't exactly an uncommon development with Franklin, and not one of the series' better points. :|
I think it's stated in the pilot that the Centauri made first contact with Earth? So, it is kind of implied if not explicitly stated that they're the ones who introduced Earth to the jumpgates.
I'm not at the point where I know everything by heart yet. I'll get there eventually! But, in the meantime, there's going to be stuff I'll forget sometimes.
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