I think that Sybok being Spock's brother also works thematically, with Sybok's journey in the film being kind of the flip side of Spock's in TMP. http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tff-as-thematic-counterpoint-to-tmp.137506/
Re-Tooling The Final Frontier
- Thread starter Vger23
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Well, that pretty much kills one of the film's big twists. If we the audience know that Sybok is Spock's long-lost half-brother from the very beginning, then the scene where Kirk and McCoy are startled to find find this out would play very differently. Everyone in the audience would be going, "Yeah, yeah, we already know this! Get on with it!"
Unless you're saying that they should have scripted & directed it with Kirk & McCoy knowing all along as well?
Exactly.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Kirk and McCoy knew he had a brother; they just didn't know he was Sybok. Just like how they knew that Spock had a father, but they didn't know he was Sarek until Sarek came aboard for the Babel conference.
I guess that could work. I'm honestly not nuts about the "long-lost brother who's even MORE human than Spock" thing in any circumstance. It diminishes Spock by making him less unique, IMO.
Due to Sybok radically ostracising himself from Vulcan society and presumably publicly disgracing his family in a very public way, he's the half brother that is difficult to talk about. VERY difficult to talk about. Whereas Sarek isn't in disgrace obviously and even Spock finds him tough to talk about.
It's very plausible characterisation for Vulcans generally and Spock reacts in an understandable way. The surprise half brother is a touch I liked, although Kirk's wisecracking it away in the brig is a bit OTT. Even here, McCoy rescues that scene though by snapping at Kirk, that Spock could no more kill his brother than he could kill him.
It's very plausible characterisation for Vulcans generally and Spock reacts in an understandable way. The surprise half brother is a touch I liked, although Kirk's wisecracking it away in the brig is a bit OTT. Even here, McCoy rescues that scene though by snapping at Kirk, that Spock could no more kill his brother than he could kill him.
But that's the thing: I wouldn't want the Sybok character to be the laughing, emotional hippy he was in the film. I would want him to be even more logical and emotionless than Spock. An over-emotional long-haired religious fanatic in search of God is not someone that the audience is going to have sympathy for. But if instead of trying to brainwash the crew with the whole "secret pain" stuff, have Sybok match wits with Spock and the crew to convince them he's right.
This over-emotional long-haired religious fanatic is not someone the audience will have sympathy for. The fact that he's emotional isn't a problem, but expressing emotions in unnatural, off-putting ways that don't invite the viewer to relate to his emotions is a problem. Religious faith isn't a turn-off, but the pseudo-philosophical babble with which he expresses his faith is. And long hair isn't really a problem.
The concept of the character is fine. The devil is in the details.
I was using "long-haired religious fanatic" as a generalization for both Sybok's appearance and his demeanor only. I'm well aware that religious faith and religious fanaticism are two different things.
I actually don't think he's religious. I think that misunderstands him. He's not a follower of a sect nor does he require people to adhere to ritual. He's not Dukat in that cult episode. He's looking for god which underpins all religions across the cosmos according to his testimony. He's a charismatic adventurer or an ultra-adventurer. In-universe terms, we've had the Athenian gods and they where grounded in in-universe reality and from that basis there no real reason to say that a tangible all-powerful alien isn't the god of the galactic religions.
As he's introduced, Sybok is charismatic with tangible powers to influence men and with a bold aim to capture a starship. We know he's going to be trouble for our heroes.
As he's introduced, Sybok is charismatic with tangible powers to influence men and with a bold aim to capture a starship. We know he's going to be trouble for our heroes.
Has anyone here ever read Star Trek #56, the last issue of DC Comics' first volume of Star Trek? It has the same basic premise as STV (the Enterprise hijacked by a religious fanatic trying to find a fabled planet), but it's a much better treatment. It was written by Martin Pasko (who has a number of TV credits as well as other Trek comics). It carried a Nov. 1988 cover date, which means it would have hit the stands several months earlier. I imagine that if Pasko had tried submitting the same story for Vol. 2 of DC's Star Trek, he would have been told it was too close in concept to STV!
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek_Vol_1_56
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek_Vol_1_56
Or your standard Star Trek episode.
Because everyone in the Trek universe should know everyone already. Nothing should ever happen without heavy foreshadowing.
I agree. Although it's not examined in enough detail, I think it's plain Sybok differs from standard cult leaders in that he has had genuine visions and developed genuine powers. Maybe all Vulcans are from Missouri, the "show me" state. Sybok doesn't need faith, because he has evidence (he thinks). If Sybok has been given these tangible experiences, it makes sense he might think the mythical holy place is also a location in the real world.
I skimmed through the thread and I don't think anyone posted this yet. I like it, considering it's just been done by one dude with presumably no budget.
That is awesome.
The SFX weren't the problem.
