Re-Tooling The Final Frontier
- Thread starter Vger23
- Start date
Thank you. If I gave it a little more thought I'd flesh it out a little more, include more for Scotty, Sulu, Uhura and Chekov to do.
Wow, I'm really enjoying this thread. It's too bad someone couldn't actually do these with some editing and cg trickery.
One thing I can say, I think Scotty hitting his head and then having a good tear about how it's not supposed to be like that with a lot of his fake Scottish!isms, something to do with Hagis. Knocking him out was just stupid.
One thing I can say, I think Scotty hitting his head and then having a good tear about how it's not supposed to be like that with a lot of his fake Scottish!isms, something to do with Hagis. Knocking him out was just stupid.
Last edited:
The use of "row,row.." might be as bad as the "eden" song from TOS"The Way To Eden".
The use of "row,row.." might be as bad as the "eden" song from TOS"The Way To Eden".
I never liked the whole "vacation together" theme. It was just awkward.
I like this film a lot - especially the vacation/row row your boat scenes.
I'm one of the few that thought Luckinbill made a great Sybok, and the character was suitably intriguing. So if I'd change anything (besides the obvious SFX) I'd go for a bit more background on Sybok.
I'm one of the few that thought Luckinbill made a great Sybok, and the character was suitably intriguing. So if I'd change anything (besides the obvious SFX) I'd go for a bit more background on Sybok.
I know that there was a deleted scene that showed that Sulu and Chekov were hiking Mount Rushmore but before I heard about it I always wondered what their deal was. I had assumed they were also at Yosemite.
Were they part of Kirk's camping trip? Did they hear that the other guys were camping and were trying to tag along? Were they not invited and then decided to camp on their own? My mind raced with the possibilities.
Were they part of Kirk's camping trip? Did they hear that the other guys were camping and were trying to tag along? Were they not invited and then decided to camp on their own? My mind raced with the possibilities.
I actually really like the film, always have, always will. I'd personally take it over the movies they are making now any day of the week. That's just me.
That being said, I really love your changes! They are well thought out and I think you are right about mostly all of them. The one thing I would disagree about is more information about the Godlike creature at the end. I really enjoy how ambiguous he is as a force. I think the more you learned about him, the less different he would seem than other species or things they encountered.
Anyway, great list and thoughts!!!!
That being said, I really love your changes! They are well thought out and I think you are right about mostly all of them. The one thing I would disagree about is more information about the Godlike creature at the end. I really enjoy how ambiguous he is as a force. I think the more you learned about him, the less different he would seem than other species or things they encountered.
Anyway, great list and thoughts!!!!
Probably the latter
While a lot of these ideas are clever and interesting---they are a cheat.
The movie was shot in 1989.
How could the existing movie be improved is the only thing I would like to see. Not imaginary alternate stories.
That means trimming the bad stuff and fixing the FX and perhaps adding some voice-overs to fill plot holes and explain gaps in the story.
But there was a poll here years ago asking what "bad parts" should be trimmed---stuff that some/most people hate was well liked by others. You can't unbake a cake. Like some of the small trims in TMP DC---some people lamented losing KIRK'S 2nd "Veiwer off!" line.
If cutting a repeated line from a slow paced and overlong movie rankles people -- this movie with so many bad parts would just annoy more people than it pleased.
Maybe a Shatner recut would have been respected by some fans, but Shatner never seemed to care about Trek lore in his heart.
He was the one who insisted on 74 decks running bottom to top, even though the crew told him it was wrong.
The movie was shot in 1989.
How could the existing movie be improved is the only thing I would like to see. Not imaginary alternate stories.
That means trimming the bad stuff and fixing the FX and perhaps adding some voice-overs to fill plot holes and explain gaps in the story.
But there was a poll here years ago asking what "bad parts" should be trimmed---stuff that some/most people hate was well liked by others. You can't unbake a cake. Like some of the small trims in TMP DC---some people lamented losing KIRK'S 2nd "Veiwer off!" line.
If cutting a repeated line from a slow paced and overlong movie rankles people -- this movie with so many bad parts would just annoy more people than it pleased.
Maybe a Shatner recut would have been respected by some fans, but Shatner never seemed to care about Trek lore in his heart.
He was the one who insisted on 74 decks running bottom to top, even though the crew told him it was wrong.
Last edited:
Exactly. What is the concept of a Supreme Being can produce in regards to the characters of the story? Are Kirk, Spock, & McCoy unsure of this, doesn't believe, or could actually fear the possibilities? What could the cast discover during and after the journey which will enlighten them? Whatever it is, it has to be more than just reaching the Great Barrier, and a derelict alien?
For me the film was a delight. It's an eccentric film in some ways but that carries its own charm. It was delight for two general reasons. The cast-iron relationship between the three veterans with their rich history of adventure together as they move into the sunset of their careers, enchants the entire film. The kind of cantankerous interplay between the three is a joy to watch - in most scenes anyway. Later Sybok makes his powerful appeal that strikes to the core of the characters but is finally rebuffed in some of the most powerful scenes seen on Trek. Shatner -- and I'm often a bit cheeky on Shatner's acting -- is peerless in some of these scenes.
The second area that I liked was the challenge that Sybok poses to Spock on a very fundamental level. It's an encounter between polar opposites. He flummoxes Spock completely. Sybok has this easy going, gregarious manner about him.. Things seem to come easy to him. Spock constantly struggles with his competing inheritance, finding things difficult. Spock for a time is a bit lost until he is vindicated in the end and finally comes to terms with his half brother as Sybok sacrifices himself for their escape on good terms
The whole soap trope of a "long lost half brother" I choose to see in a satirical light and as a dig at the extraordinary degree in which Vulcans repress unwanted or "embarrassing" features of their past. Despite their logic, Vulcans are often governed by their total disdain at emotion with results that often leave us incredulous. But that's the Vulcans for you. .
As I said in an earlier post, I'd tighten up on some of the dog ears that the plot has. But I wouldn't change the plot fundamentally. My central criticism of this film lies in the very sloppy production values which can be so pronounced as to be jarring. But if you can't be somewhat philosophical about that, you'll have a tough time appreciating any classic Trek full stop -- so I choose to be philosophical.
The second area that I liked was the challenge that Sybok poses to Spock on a very fundamental level. It's an encounter between polar opposites. He flummoxes Spock completely. Sybok has this easy going, gregarious manner about him.. Things seem to come easy to him. Spock constantly struggles with his competing inheritance, finding things difficult. Spock for a time is a bit lost until he is vindicated in the end and finally comes to terms with his half brother as Sybok sacrifices himself for their escape on good terms
The whole soap trope of a "long lost half brother" I choose to see in a satirical light and as a dig at the extraordinary degree in which Vulcans repress unwanted or "embarrassing" features of their past. Despite their logic, Vulcans are often governed by their total disdain at emotion with results that often leave us incredulous. But that's the Vulcans for you. .
As I said in an earlier post, I'd tighten up on some of the dog ears that the plot has. But I wouldn't change the plot fundamentally. My central criticism of this film lies in the very sloppy production values which can be so pronounced as to be jarring. But if you can't be somewhat philosophical about that, you'll have a tough time appreciating any classic Trek full stop -- so I choose to be philosophical.
Last edited:
Those are all good questions.
The problem with TFF is that it lacks a theme. There are some interesting things in the movie — dying alone, following one man blindly in the belief or promise of paradise, letting your past shape you but not haunt you. However they feel like pieces of different jigsaw puzzles being forced to fit together to form a picture.
There are moments in this movie that I really love. Mostly between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. I just wish they were in a better film.
More power to the ones who actually like TFF. I however, think it is a fundamentally flawed film that no amount of editing, new FX or voiceovers can make better. Because the problems really have nothing to do with the editing, FX, or narrative. The flaws mostly concern the existence of Sybok.
Sybok should never have been Spock's half-brother. That idiocy right there is the main reason why this movie doesn't work for me. Spock had a half-brother all this time and never told anyone? That's just dumb. The ONLY reason why Sybok is Spock's half-brother was because of the lame joke they made about it. They could have made him Spock's cousin and it would have worked just the same.
Sybok having emotions: What, really, was the point of that? Just to show that he was some kind of outcast? He could have been a ruthlessly logical Vulcan and had the same beliefs about his "God." As a matter of fact, both the crew and the audience might have even sympathized with his cause more if he'd given a logical reason why he thought this "God" existed and why he needed to find it, instead of just coming off like a religious fanatic.
So Sybok's big "plan" was to kidnap three has-been diplomats on some backwater planet in hopes that they'd be important enough that either Starfleet or the Klingon and Romulan Empires would send a rescue ship so he could steal it by brainwashing the crew with his "I feel your pain" rigmarole? Why didn't he just charter a private starship to go to ShaKaRee? I mean, if a lowly Constitution class starship with all kinds of malfunctions can get to the center of the galaxy in about 30 minutes, why not that alien dude in the bar in TSFS?
A
Amaris
Guest
GENESIS?!
Nimbus III was not planet forbidden.
A
Amaris
Guest
True. I still love the movie, though, and because of the big three. Whatever people think of Shatner himself, I think he used a deft hand in portraying the main characters here, and it was just so well done. For me, it's enough to carry the entire film. Plus, I have some real nostalgia attached to this film (it was the first VHS tape I ever owned).
Interesting thought, I guess. But that wasn't the spirit under which this thread was created.
