RDM - not the answer
- Thread starter jimbtnp2
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Even if all they needed to survive was power they could get from other sources they'd need to stop at a planet every once in a while to stretch their legs. Socialization and morale-boosting are neccesary components of the voyage, otherwise they'd go completely bonkers and have nervous breakdowns devolving from the "ideals" you seek them to uphold anyway.
A little anarchy isn't neccesarily a bad thing. It's not conflict for its own sake but checks and balances. Even a utopia needs a fourth estate to challenge authority. Paradise unchallenged is a very dangerous thing. I don't recall Moore saying anything along the lines that the Maquis and Starfleet crews should be at all out war, just that there should be tension between them. That's just how drama, and hell how comedy, works.
I don't worship DS9 as the beginning and the end of all things, but I am in favor of doing what needs to be done to make sure a show stays true to its basic premise; I'm in favor of the writers and producers making an honest show; I'm in favor of a show putting characters out there and showing them have motivations and seeing where those motives come into conflict in an honest way, to show how they form alliances and work to overcome those conflicts so they can get home. It's really not too much to ask for a show to commit to its premise. That's all Moore was advocating.
But yeah, Hobs202 is right, Moore isn't likely to do Trek again, so in a lot of ways all this is moot. But the value of the recent interviews and the chats, podcasts, and commentaries he's made over the last 15-20 years are valuable as a jumping off point from which to discuss writing as it relates to TV shows and movies such as Trek.
how is it deeper? More info maybe but deeper?
Yes, deeper. You can show a more extended reaction to situations from various chars and the same chars over time with an arc than if it was all squeezed into one episode.
Saying stretching things out doesn't work it like saying Dune would've been better if Herbert made it only 100 pages long.
Saying stretching things out doesn't work it like saying Dune would've been better if Herbert made it only 100 pages long.
I am in the camp of RDM is a genius, and that BSG is the best drama ever to grace a TV screen.
However, I don't think that style would work for Trek. His DS9 and TNG writing that were a nice blend of the BSGesque drama and the Trekky fun, were very nice. Voyager could have benefitted GREATLY from that. But Trek could never really be taken to the level of BSG, it wouldn't be good.
However, I don't think that style would work for Trek. His DS9 and TNG writing that were a nice blend of the BSGesque drama and the Trekky fun, were very nice. Voyager could have benefitted GREATLY from that. But Trek could never really be taken to the level of BSG, it wouldn't be good.
come on now
no its not
but do you really want to see someone react to the same incident for 24 hours? to me that's the soap opera
I watched BSG for a while and then one day realized that I do not enjoy the show. There are better things to do with my time than watch something that makes me depressed.
Sums me up, too.
First time in a VERY long time I simply *stopped* watching something. I realized too I was actually getting down during and after watching the thing.
And I watch "Torchwood", so that's REALLY saying something!
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24 is not the same - its is designed to be a non-soapish show with different paced show with a logical step by step beginning to end
the nuBSG example does not fit that at all
Luke Lightsaber
Captain
NuBSG doesn't, it's obvious they are just making it all up as they go on and they had no idea where the story would end. But it's not the same with all arc shows.
If the plot is done properly, the characters' choices show their reactions. Scenes of them talking about their emotions about the events are not really drama, just wallowing. This is very soapish. A story too big to fit into one episode is just a multiepisode story. When people say arc, they usually mean a succession of scenes in which a favorite character emotes. Redemption arcs are favorites, sometimes so favorite that characters can end up gettting redeemed several times. All very, very soapish.
24's first season (I stopped watching midway through and never looked back) was obviously made up as they went along. So
?
i dont know.
really some of the best story telling is found in the short story format.
and while some stories may need to be told through multiple episodes others i think have their dramatic impact increased because it is told within one.
for instance city on the edge of forever.
but i think it is going to be harder and harder to do a serialised sf show because they dont do as well in syndication.
well make that most shows dont do as well.
I think the conclusion that can safely be drawn from all this back and forth is that there is no definitive answer. Some shows with long arcs are better than some episodic TV shows. Some short stories are better than some lengthy novels. And the opposite of both is equally true.
I don't think I will ever like a TV show in as blinkered and complete a manner as I loved TNG growing up. And that show was all but completely episodic. It didn't need arcs, and told some fantastic stories, all within 45 minutes. As an adult I love early SG-1 and Firefly, which, although having an underlying series arc, are essentially episodic.
But I also love BSG, 24, late DS9, Angel. Shows with heavy, almost-every-episode arcs which define the shows long term future.
Both can work. One format is not necessarily superior to the other.
I don't think I will ever like a TV show in as blinkered and complete a manner as I loved TNG growing up. And that show was all but completely episodic. It didn't need arcs, and told some fantastic stories, all within 45 minutes. As an adult I love early SG-1 and Firefly, which, although having an underlying series arc, are essentially episodic.
But I also love BSG, 24, late DS9, Angel. Shows with heavy, almost-every-episode arcs which define the shows long term future.
Both can work. One format is not necessarily superior to the other.
Running time is not directly proportional to quality and serialization does not necessarily equal quality. However if a show to commits to its premise, and I believe, if that show starts with its characters points of view to inform its storylines (e.g. if we put Bashir into a real-life spy situation involving Romulans and Section 31, instead of his holosuite fantasies, will he be up to the challenge and how would that story go?), it does yield quality. In a case like that a show can be episodic but the characters will still show growth from episode to episode--or worst case we'll at least learn more about them.
Could someone give me an operating definition of "soapish"? I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to mean, beyond a type of programming that jimbtnp2 doesn't like. I'd guess that it means shows that aren't really about how the characters solve the problem-of-the-week, but that's just a guess.
I think jimbtnp2 is referring to a show whose sole plot is "life problems" situations between characters, and watching them talk about those situations, usually through conflict. The sort of show where each storyline could genuinely be happening, but the culmination of all the storylines together in one place to one set of people tend to make the show unwatchably naff.
No mainstream science fiction today or recently fits this, to my recollection. Having character interaction and depicting lives beyond the alien menace of the week is not the same thing as beign a 'soap'.
Luke Lightsaber
Captain
24 IS a bit soapish. Look at Jack's failed relationships, or Chloe's pregnancy problems. Or that one year with the acting nuts kid that was the daughter of the CTU manager?
I'm all in favor of arc shows, provided that it meets a few standards.
First, I hate it when missing a single episode of a show makes the rest of the season jibberish. If you're going to do that, recap. I don't want to buy season sets just to follow the story.
Second, if you can possibly tell the whole story in a one off episode, do that. I don't think it's particularly dramatic to have a single short storyline streched out to three weeks. Padding isn't good.
