Rank & Rate: The Colin Baker Era

[Qonundrum]

My favorite memory of "Planet of Fire" is Turlough finally ditching the suit and getting into a lot less. He turned out to be a rather interesting character, once the whole Black Guardian arc was finished. I liked the companions who grew, who became better persons as a result of traveling with the Doctor.

I love that story for numerous reasons, but that one scene does appeal to just about everybody. I had no complaints.

Turlough had a great origin and Guardian subplot, but after that the "Can we trust him?" was put to the side. Then again, they did build trust then came his swansong and proved the Doctor was worried - he'd already dealt with Adric siding with the bad guys so often, on top of Turlough's arc. I thought Turlough had proven himself more than enough by then, anyway.

Peri and Jamie and the Sixth Doctor for a whole season? Somehow I don't think that combination would have worked too well, just because of personality clash. The Second and Sixth Doctors were so unlike, and Jamie was used to his Doctor as a sort of mentor/friend who respected him. I never had the impression that the Sixth Doctor had much respect for his companions. He might have come to like them, but not respect them.

Yeah, good point. I still think some of the dour nature came from Saward out of conflict of interest for the show with his personal disagreements and dislikes. If actors aren't allowed to sabotage the show then neither should be the script writer or editor. Don't get me wrong, he's a great writer. But I wish he would have tempered himself a bit more, if the dislike was so intense. His take on "Trial"'s original conclusion, with that cliffhanger, really showed how much he wanted to sabotage the show. There aren't many ways to think beyond it. Even if there was no intention, the cliffhanger and how the Doctor and Valeyard were stuck in the void with the former injured badly would have been a perfect way for the BBC to end the show and prevent the audience reaction from the previous year.

I don't know much about the behind the scenes politics - who liked whom, and which producers and head writers had issues with which cast members. I just know which characters I liked, and which stories. The only one of the actors I ever met was Sylvester McCoy, who was gracious and friendly (at a promotional event at the PBS studio in Spokane, Washington), but I ended up not really liking his Doctor much, nor did I like many of his stories.

Conflict can be a good thing but not after a certain point. If you have or can get the DVDs for Colin's era, I recall "The Twin Dilemma", "Revelation of the Daleks", "Trial", and "Attack of the Cybermen" having some input on the matter. Saward himself said a lot in a "Starburst" magazine article as well. I think he may have contributed to DWB (not the same as DWM). Basicxally, everyone suffered and Saward himself liked the show - he put a lot of effort into his scripts, even with Adric's character...

From some of the videos I've seen of Colin Baker, he seems to be much nicer in person than the Sixth Doctor was!

VERY true! Like Capaldi, Pertwee, and others, Colin's authoritarian and even acidic nature was a refreshing change. Especially when done right.

I recall reading that the plan for Six was to make him nicer over several seasons, as he continued to stabilize. The plans were cut short, but apart from "Twin" with the strangulation scene - On youtube, a video maker opined that if Peri whipped out the mirror as he was advancing then that would have been better as he still snaps out of it but the controversy would have been eliminated. Never mind later episodes pouring on the saccharine to show compassion between the two for cliffhangers. Colin acts the heck out of the scene where he's accusing her of a spy, and she'd only joined up with him and wasn't grateful for being saved so it's not out of total lalaland lunacy that he would feel paranoid. Add in the religious reference (which was cool, Peri = Piri) and it's a nice setup. They just went overboard with it.

I can see it now... Mel joins the TARDIS gang early in the Fifth Doctor's era and promptly has all of them drinking veggie juice and doing aerobics (except Adric, since Alzarians are super-healthy and don't need to worry about weight gain). Tegan and Mel wouldn't get along, Nyssa would go along with it so she could flange up some new weird costumes, and the Doctor would be good-natured and try to be the peacemaker among everybody.

Then there's an external shot of the TARDIS, whirling through time and space, and the background music is whatever aerobics tune might be popular and even the TARDIS seems to be bopping along to it.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Never heard of issues between Seward and Baker before. Was it simply a personal dislike or more to it?

From the documentaries I've seen where Seward talks about it, it's sort of a mix of both personal and professional. He makes it clear he doesn't think Colin was a very good actor and he didn't like how JNT settled on Colin (Colin and JNT were at a wedding together and Colin, from the story he tells, was in fine for entertaining everyone, and that's where JNT decided Baker was his man.) I suspect Seward didn't like being shut out of the process.

Seward not thinking Colin is a good actor, or certainly the right actor, for the job feels awfully personal. But, I've never heard how they personally got along... I suspect it was very professional. But, if Seward really didn't like it all, perhaps he should've left.

 

[Marc]

From the documentaries I've seen where Seward talks about it, it's sort of a mix of both personal and professional. He makes it clear he doesn't think Colin was a very good actor and he didn't like how JNT settled on Colin (Colin and JNT were at a wedding together and Colin, from the story he tells, was in fine for entertaining everyone, and that's where JNT decided Baker was his man.) I suspect Seward didn't like being shut out of the process.

Guess times change. Pertwee was never considered the greatest of the actors but because he fitted the role there were never any issues with it and McCoy was derided at the time he took the roll as being famous only for a comedy act involve ferrets down the trousers.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

What is surprising about Saward himself is how he became the script editor in the first place. His first script wasn't very good, but somehow assumed the job mid-season, and wrote Earthshock, too. So you have a neophyte in a highly demanding job, with not a lot of experience, but still allowed to input his aesthetic to the show - which was lots of meaningless, aimless violence, miniscule character development and casual sexism later on with Peri. I don';t hate the guy, but he's easily the weakest script-editor of any era of the show.

The fact that he seemingly didn't like either Doctors he literally worked on is also fairly amazing.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Guess times change. Pertwee was never considered the greatest of the actors but because he fitted the role there were never any issues with it and McCoy was derided at the time he took the roll as being famous only for a comedy act involve ferrets down the trousers.

Wasn't Pertwee also considered a comic actor? And it was surprising that he played it straight? (Which is a smart choice in having to follow Troughton)

 

[Timewalker]

What is surprising about Saward himself is how he became the script editor in the first place. His first script wasn't very good, but somehow assumed the job mid-season, and wrote Earthshock, too. So you have a neophyte in a highly demanding job, with not a lot of experience, but still allowed to input his aesthetic to the show - which was lots of meaningless, aimless violence, miniscule character development and casual sexism later on with Peri. I don';t hate the guy, but he's easily the weakest script-editor of any era of the show.

Earthshock is one of the best of the Davison era stories, not because a companion was killed (there were two who were killed during the Hartnell era), but how and why the companion was killed.

Adric's death had an effect on the rest of of the Fifth Doctor era, via mentions in various episodes and as an illusion experienced by Tegan and Nyssa in Time-Flight. And of course, the last word the Fifth Doctor uttered was Adric's name - he never got over Adric's death.

Wasn't Pertwee also considered a comic actor? And it was surprising that he played it straight? (Which is a smart choice in having to follow Troughton)

All I know about Pertwee is that he was in a children's program about a scarecrow. The only other thing I've ever seen him in was a brief appearance in the musical "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum". It was a speaking part, not singing or dancing.

 

[Armus]

Colin's Doctor was not my favorite Doctor but he got better as he became more relaxed, and as his dialogue improved. It was a pity his tenure was so brief.

I think his stories were the best Doctor Who episodes since the Robert Holmes written Tom Baker episodes, who was brought back on board by Eric Saward, to write The Caves of Androzani. He also wrote The Two Doctors, which was one of the funniest Doctor Who episodes ever in my view. Patrick Trouton and Colin were wonderful together in that.

 

[Qonundrum]

@Armus, if you can find it, the original script of "The Two Doctors" was set in New Orleans and had a lot more banter between the Doctor and Peri. I've yet to find it, only reading from internet posts here and there. It was to be a co-production with Lionheart, the US distributor of the show at the time. Lionheart pulled out, so quick thinking ensured the story could still be made and filmed in another country as opposed to being so studio-bound. Pat and Colin were wonderful together, as were Pat with Peri and Colin with Jamie. Shockeye arguably looks "too human" but the guest cast all resonate beautifully and put together a really strong and underrated production. The story isn't 100% perfect but it's nowhere near his least effective scripts! It's often given a bad rap either because Colin is the star or because it was made in the 1980s and therefore must be bad. Bad! BAD! And that's not fair, nor right.

 

[DigificWriter]

Sorry for the bump, but I'm considering a dive into the Colin Baker Era after having watched a Youtube video documentary put together by a fan named Richard D. Carrier (via the account Clever Dick Films), and can't decide if I just jump into things with his predecessor's final episode, The Caves of Androzani, in order to see his regeneration, or if I should go back a story to Planet of Fire and watch Peri's introduction first.

Thoughts?

 

[Gavin70]

Sorry for the bump, but I'm considering a dive into the Colin Baker Era after having watched a Youtube video documentary put together by a fan named Richard D. Carrier (via the account Clever Dick Films), and can't decide if I just jump into things with his predecessor's final episode, The Caves of Androzani, in order to see his regeneration, or if I should go back a story to Planet of Fire and watch Peri's introduction first.

Thoughts?

Personally I'd take any excuse to rewatch Androzani

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

^What he said. Just see Androzani and go from there.

You could also test the waters on Audio Six, and listen to the Lost Stories between seasons 22 and 23, to both get a feel of what was almost made back then and actually listen to his Doctor become the BF Doctor he's been ever since.

 

[DigificWriter]

So, I did end up deciding to watch "Planet of Fire" to get Peri's introduction and as a 'lead-in' to Colin's era, and I have to say that I really like(d) her character. She reminded me very much of Rose in terms of her archetype and role as a Companion, although she is a bit more of a "shrinking violet" than Rose.

Since I started pretty much "in media res" with the Fifth Doctor, there were ongoing story elements that I didn't have full context for, but the structure of the writing - as well as my basic understanding of Doctor Who and the insight I'd gained from watching a Youtube retrospective/documentary on Peter Davison's era - made it so that I didn't feel completely lost and was able to pick up on the Fifth Doctor's personality almost immediately.

As both an entry point for me into "Classic Who" and as an introduction to Peri and the Fifth Doctor I rather enjoyed "Planet of Fire" and found it to be a fun romp that felt familiar without being cheesy or "tropey".

 

[DigificWriter]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to review The Caves of Androzani while it was fresh in my mind.

In the Fifth Doctor video retrospective that I mentioned, this episode was cited as a particularly standout representative of the era, but I personally found it a bit convoluted and overstuffed in contrast to Planet of Fire, with far too many things going on at one time and too many ancillary characters.

I also found the scenario into which the Doctor and Peri became embroiled and which directly led to his regeneration to be far less gripping than the video had led me to believe that it was.

Having said that, I did like the way Peter Davison and Nicola Bryant played off of one another and can see, even with only one prior episode of exposure to him, why the Doctor would go to the lengths that he did in order to save her life.

I also liked the flippancy with which Colin's Sixth Doctor made his debut, even though I did find his closing line a bit too on-the-nose and not entirely appropriate for the context of his appearance, although I suppose that that's kind of the point.

With Colin having made his official debut, I'm looking forward to delving into his first full episode as the Doctor and finding out if my assessment of him as a sort of "alien Willy Wonka" rings true.

I'm also looking forward to seeing if his schizophrenic and manic attempt to strangle Peri is actually as offputting as the Sixth Doctor video I watched painted it as being or if the darker nuance I sensed from it in the clips I watched holds true, so stay tuned.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I know its a cliched thing to say, like "City of Death is the funniest DW ever" or "Genesis of the Daleks is the most important DW tale ever" but... really, Caves simply IS the best DW story, certainly of the classic era. Its basically got everything, and only the monster lets it down at the end. Its a story that I like more and more as the years go by. Not exactly surprised you didn't like it as much, though, but maybe future reviewing will further open your perception of the story. Its a tragic little tale.

 

[DigificWriter]

I've now seen "The Twin Dilemma" , Colin's first full story as the Sixth Doctor, and what I'm about to say is probably going to generate a lot of weird and confused reactions: I really enjoyed it, especially when I contrast it with my response to The Caves of Androzani.

To start off my discussion of the story, I want to address two of what seem to be the biggest issues taken with Colin's Doctor: the costume and his schizophrenic attempt to kill Peri.

First, the costume: my immediate first impression of Colin's Doctor and the thing that motivated me to make his era my first foray into "Classic Who" was how much his mannerisms and behavior were reminiscent of Willy Wonka, and the costume fits perfectly with that. I also think that, in spite of Peri calling it awful, it actually does work, especially when you look at it in the context of what the Fourth and Fifth Doctors chose to wear. It's an over-the-top evolution of the frumpy Bohemian and out-of-place Cricketer looks chosen by those two incarnations, but also bizarrely fits the Sixth Doctor's "jackass" personality and schizophrenic and darker nature in the same way as Willy Wonka's purple suit ensemble does.

Now, let's talk about the strangling scene: Having seen it in context, I can honestly say that it's not as appalling as I've seen it made out to be, especially since it's actually set up in the previous scene when the Doctor collapses in a manic laughing fit and then briefly discusses the inevitability of side effects from the regeneration process.

It's also certainly not anywhere close to the darkness that permeates the Willy Wonka character in both the original Charlie and the Chocolate Factory novel and Johhny Depp's filmic realization of the character, or anywhere near to the level of the things that he either causes to happen or passively allows to happen over the course of that story.

I also want to address the accusation that Peri shouldn't have stayed with the Doctor after he tried to kill her by saying that, based on what we see, I think that she realizes that he is far more remorseful than his theatrical reaction may make him seem, which gets borne out - although not in her presence - when he later privately admits how much guilt he's carrying over the incident.

Okay, now let's talk about The Twin Dilemma a bit more specifically. Despite it apparently being panned as a horrible episode, I thought that it worked quite nicely as an introductory adventure for Colin's Doctor, who is very much an "alien Willy Wonka" like I've described him, with Colin brilliantly shifting from scizophrenically unstable to arrogantly heroic to privately compassionate in the blink of an eye.

The story itself is a little bit frivolous, but is much more straightforward in comparison to Caves, which helps put the focus on how chaotically dark Colin's Doctor is supposed to be (just like the Willy Sonia character) and gives him the perfect vehicle for establishing just how alien the Doctor truly is in a way that is both darkly humorous and instantly compelling.

I also didn't mind the supporting characters, even Romulus and Remus, and felt like they were perfectly used in the context of the story. I do kind of wish Hugo had stuck around because it would've been interesting to see him continue to play off both Peri and Six, but I can also see why he was just a one-off character.

Even after only two full stories with him, plus a Regeneration scene, I've fallen completely in love with the Sixth Doctor for pretty much every reason that he seems to be hated and cannot wait to watch the rest of his adventures.

Also, in closing, I wanted to point out something that I think has gotten lost in the morass of dislike that impacted the character's tenure originally, which is that Peri clearly reacts positively to his seemingly egotistic declaration of "I am the Doctor. Whether you like it or not", which I think is telling for both her internal psyche and for how and why Colin's portrayal of the Doctor ends up working, and also wanted to say that in watching this story, it's easy to see why Colin continues to celebrate and champion his tenure as the Doctor despite the rather ignominious ending to the onscreen portion of it.

 

[Gavin70]

I always liked Twin Dilemma (and indeed, pretty much all of Colin's run). The only real issue is with Romulus and Remus, and that's mainly because their actors were so bad. I also suspect that much of the hate developed in between seasons. I think it was a mistake to introduce a new Doctor, especially one who was set up as such a different type of Doctor, and then have a break before giving the character time to develop. It left fans with just the one story (the majority of which he was wildly out of character for) to form their judgement. So for that long period between seasons the main conversations were around the costume and him strangling Peri. By the time they moved on to further develop the character, most people had already formed their opinion.

 

[DigificWriter]

I always liked Twin Dilemma (and indeed, pretty much all of Colin's run). The only real issue is with Romulus and Remus, and that's mainly because their actors were so bad. I also suspect that much of the hate developed in between seasons. I think it was a mistake to introduce a new Doctor, especially one who was set up as such a different type of Doctor, and then have a break before giving the character time to develop. It left fans with just the one story (the majority of which he was wildly out of character for) to form their judgement. So for that long period between seasons the main conversations were around the costume and him strangling Peri. By the time they moved on to further develop the character, most people had already formed their opinion.

I don't think the problem lies with the story, the costume, Colin's performance, or making his introduction be the final story of Series 21.

I think the problem lies in people not not thinking critically and just reacting negatively.

I've now made it through Attack of the Cybermen, which marks my first exposure to that eponymous race, and I was at first a bit put off by the fissures that existed early on in Part 1 between Six and Peri, especially coming directly off of him getting her to smile at the conclusion of The Twin Dilemma, Part 4, but things smoothed out as the story progressed.

I've seen some criticisms levied against the change in format from 4 25-minute episode parts per story to 2 45-minute episode parts per story and how the structure wasn't shifted to compensate, but as someone who came to the franchise through nuWho first, I honestly don't see why that's a problem.

I was a little bit underwhelmed by the character's of Stratton and Bates and was prepared to write the story off as being overstuffed in the same way that I felt The Caves of Androzani was, but the scripts eventually made their inclusion make sense.

It's my understanding that there was a lot of backlash in the 80s to the violence quotient of the story, which, with the context of having seen both parts of it, strikes me as odd given what else was out there in popular culture at the time and given the perspective of looking at things through a modern lens.

I did think that it was funny that Peri kept questioning whether or not the Doctor had stabilized, and thought that his realization that he might not be as stable as he kept insisting was played perfectly by Colin. I also loved the further glimpses we got beneath Six's OTT veneer into his compassion and heroism, particularly when he gave Flast the means to destroy the Cybermen and when he felt horror at having misjudged Lytton as badly as he had.

As both a Series Premiere story and my first introduction to the Cybermen, I thought Attack of the Cybermen was quite good and very reminiscent of nuWho, which, as a modern TV watcher, was nice.

 

[Gavin70]

I think the problem lies in people not not thinking critically and just reacting negatively.

I think a lack of critical thinking isn't just limited to Doctor Who and Colin Baker. There seems to be an overall shortage of that in the world in general.

 

[DigificWriter]

I think a lack of critical thinking isn't just limited to Doctor Who and Colin Baker. There seems to be an overall shortage of that in the world in general.

You're right, but in terms of The Twin Dilemma specifically and the original and continually perpetuated negative reaction to Colin, I think some critical thinking was sorely needed.

I don't think I've said this here, but while Christopher Eccleston's Nine was officially my "first Doctor", Colin's Six has become my favorite Doctor even after only 6 episodes plus one Regeneration scene because of how fabulously chaotic and layered he is.

 

[jaime]

I know its a cliched thing to say, like "City of Death is the funniest DW ever" or "Genesis of the Daleks is the most important DW tale ever" but... really, Caves simply IS the best DW story, certainly of the classic era. Its basically got everything, and only the monster lets it down at the end. Its a story that I like more and more as the years go by. Not exactly surprised you didn't like it as much, though, but maybe future reviewing will further open your perception of the story. Its a tragic little tale.

The problem with Caves is also one of its strengths. It’s a Sci-Fi Middle East polemic, that the Doctor wanders into, can do nothing (and does nothing) to change, where everyone is the hero and the villain all at once. There’s no sides, it does some great off-screen worldbuilding, (the Adrozani society.) and it’s really full of neat SF touches whilst depressing and nihilistic (Saward is a good writer, I just suspect he isn’t suited to Who...he is ‘hard’ SF like bidmead before him though. Caves is very much the same universe as Earthshock as well. Eighties SF as heck.) and ultimately it kills the ‘innocent’ incarnation of the Doctor.
Sharaz-Jek is an amazing character, (better than Khan for my money) and his end is truly amazing too...his fascination with Peri and his dying ‘hold me salateen’ are top tier stuff (the cast is amazing too) but...it’s the drift of Who away from kids. The Dark nihilism of Saward reaches its apotheosis in Resurrection of the Daleks, but again, they are becoming stories where the Doctor and Companion are Rosencrantz and Guildernstern. They have next to zero impact on the stories, and mostly observe events and try to survive. It is all a bit much for an audience that included under tens, let alone under-fifteens or eighteens, which is where Saward is pitching his stories...the eighties adult SF market.

They are awesome stories, but...and here is the controversy...they may not be awesome Doctor Who stories. Growing pains for Who. Kinda is probably the knife edge...it’s an amazingly adult work, but is still OK to follow for younger audiences. Cartmel managed to bring the balance back in, which is why you get awesome things like Greatest Show and (for the complexity of Morgaine alone) Battlefield. Season 26 is probably the best and truest example of Who until the modern era...and even then, it’s probably still tops.