However, even back in the 80s, most of us loathed that costume!
Rank & Rate: The Colin Baker Era
- Thread starter Emperor-Tiberius
- Start date
Colin Baker's era is probably the worst of DW. Although, McCoy's first season gives it a run for its money. In addition to all the budget and writing problems, it doesn't help that Colin Baker has a very small range as an actor. I rewatched his era about 5 years ago. Most were utterly forgettable.
The good ones:
Vengeance on Varos (his best)
Two Doctors
Revelation of the Daleks
Mysterious Planet (I forgot how enjoyable this one is)
These stand out for not being as bad as I remember. Ok but not great:
Terror of the Vervoids
Twin Dilemma (I was shocked to learn that this was OK and not the horror that I remembered)
Mark of the Rani
I did not like Attack of the Cybermen. It had great potential but alas they tried cramming way too much into the story and it fell apart by the end.
The good ones:
Vengeance on Varos (his best)
Two Doctors
Revelation of the Daleks
Mysterious Planet (I forgot how enjoyable this one is)
These stand out for not being as bad as I remember. Ok but not great:
Terror of the Vervoids
Twin Dilemma (I was shocked to learn that this was OK and not the horror that I remembered)
Mark of the Rani
I did not like Attack of the Cybermen. It had great potential but alas they tried cramming way too much into the story and it fell apart by the end.
I agree that Vengeance on Varos was his best story. I enjoyed The Two Doctors because it was such a treat to see the Second Doctor and Jamie again.
It didn't help either Colin Baker or Sylvester McCoy that between them they had 3 of the worst Classic Who companions (dimwitted Peri, screechy Mel, full-of-angst Ace).
I liked his era a lot. He's my favorite Doctor (of either Classic or NuWho) and he had some good stuff. He also had some bad stuff, and he didn't get nearly enough time in the role, but I still liked his run. Attack of the Cybermen was my favorite episode, and the only episodes I consider outright bad are Timelash and Revelation of the Daleks. I also liked Peri, especially more then some of the b-list popular companions (I definitely like her better then, say, Jo Grant, or Tegan). She's no Sarah Jane I guess, but I liked her.
When it comes to worst Classic who era, I always go with McCoy. I didn't like him when he went full evil around Dragonfire, and his worst episodes were much worse then Colin's.
When it comes to worst Classic who era, I always go with McCoy. I didn't like him when he went full evil around Dragonfire, and his worst episodes were much worse then Colin's.
I'm a big fan of Collin Baker as The Doctor.
I just wish he had better scripts and a new show runner.
JNT was a bit burned out at the time.
I would rather watch the worst 6th Doctor episodes than the best of the 7th.
Never liked McCoy and he hasn't grown on me one bit over the years.
I just wish he had better scripts and a new show runner.
JNT was a bit burned out at the time.
I would rather watch the worst 6th Doctor episodes than the best of the 7th.
Never liked McCoy and he hasn't grown on me one bit over the years.
QUOTE="kirk55555, post: 11259885, member: 28073"]I love this Doctor, and I enjoyed his era. It was the first Classic Doctor that I completed (meaning the first one where I saw every one of his televised stories). His personality is kind of rough, but in a good way. His costume is goofy, but instantly memorable, and I've grown to love it. I honestly really dislike the Blue Big Finish costume, and the toned down stage version of the classic costume, for the 6th Doctor. To me, his classic coat will always be a favorite when it comes to the various Doctors costumes. As for his traveling companions, Peri was a great companion, while Mel is the second worst Doctor Who companion I've ever seen (after Series 8 Clara).[/quote]
YANA!
His costume didn't bother me in 1985... as an adult I can understand the criticism, and yet it's as complex and manic and diverse as his personality is. It is iconic, whether we like it or not.
Colin was right in saying something in black... but, yeah, the blue is overrated. Especially as it was a monochromatic blue. A couple blue shades and no diverting from that. Like a walking blue raspberry snowcone...
His personality was unpredictable. Combined with an acuity for literary figures, and even tweaking at his companion, there's rather a lot to enjoy, I'd found.
Peri started great with the fifth Doctor. And their pairing lacked a lot of banter, until "Revelation of the Daleks". The original script for "The Two Doctors" was said to have a lot more banter between them, as opposed to bickering, but because they had to change filming locations the script had to be redone and Peri got caught in the middle.
Great:
Revelation of the Daleks
The Two Doctors
Near-great:
The Mark of the Rani
Vengeance on Varos
Attack of the Cybermen
Good:
Mindwarp
Terror of the Vervoids
Ok:
The Twin Dilemma
The Ultimate Foe
The Mysterious Planet
Bad... bad?? BAD!!!:
Timelash
The twins were just child actors, no worse than I've seen in many shows. I think it might be due to the speech impediment... Did you know that director Peter Moffatt originally wanted identical twin girls? JNT didn't want to deviate from the script and the Conrads were an 11th hour find, after JNT made his decision. As a kid, either sex wouldn't have bothered me. Reading the information now, it's something of a shame Moffatt didn't get the chance to use the two girls. I never read why JNT was so stern, and I don't want to go into "conjecture mode" too much. Wasn't there a horror movie made in the early 1980s with twin girls in a hallway with blood? That's a bit of a stretch but no less plausible than any other notion, I suppose. The post-regeneration trauma made sense to me, even as a kid. It was set up and explained in both the end of "Caves" and more loosely implied in "Twin Dilemma". But casual viewers missing out on "Caves" would far more likely to take the infamous scene out of context. Making the story a season ender on top of making the new Doctor "unlikable but will grow nicer over time" certainly did not help.
Try it with the commentary turned on. Paul Darrow, along with Colin, and Nicola, provides a lot of fun and information in it.
The funny part is, when I saw it originally, the 6th Doctor's era was finally feeling as if everything was coming into place. The story was a bit lightweight, but the 6th persona was always engaging to watch no matter what.
"Timelash" is under budget, had a very VERY basic plot (to replace an initial entry that was rejected due to copyright issues with the Daleks)... it's not bad but could have been a lot more interesting if tightened up. Part one with Herbert is the more effective episode. Paul Darrow clearly is having much fun hamming up the place. Probably because he saw there wasn't much in the plot that was remarkable and I'll admit, underplaying Tekker would have really made the story come across a lot worse.
To me, though, "Revelation" is a complex masterpiece of juggling so many double acts... Fantastic direction, which is what season 22 consistently needed. Colin and Nicola both get some great lines. Peri and the DJ, once they meet, make up for a lot of DJ scenes that would alienate the person waking up from suspended animation just as much as they might annoy the viewer. I personally thought the DJ was inspired, and I'm a fan of Alexei Sayle's silly style of humor. His being exterminated ended up feeling poignant and tragic. Very creative choice in using "Fire" for one of the action scenes, though the Hendrix estate wanted so much money that the home video releases had to have the (already audibly distorted) music excised.
McCoy's did bring in its own sets of triumphs and errors.
YANA!
His costume didn't bother me in 1985... as an adult I can understand the criticism, and yet it's as complex and manic and diverse as his personality is. It is iconic, whether we like it or not.
Colin was right in saying something in black... but, yeah, the blue is overrated. Especially as it was a monochromatic blue. A couple blue shades and no diverting from that. Like a walking blue raspberry snowcone...
His personality was unpredictable. Combined with an acuity for literary figures, and even tweaking at his companion, there's rather a lot to enjoy, I'd found.
Peri started great with the fifth Doctor. And their pairing lacked a lot of banter, until "Revelation of the Daleks". The original script for "The Two Doctors" was said to have a lot more banter between them, as opposed to bickering, but because they had to change filming locations the script had to be redone and Peri got caught in the middle.
Great:
Revelation of the Daleks
The Two Doctors
Near-great:
The Mark of the Rani
Vengeance on Varos
Attack of the Cybermen
Good:
Mindwarp
Terror of the Vervoids
Ok:
The Twin Dilemma
The Ultimate Foe
The Mysterious Planet
Bad... bad?? BAD!!!:
Timelash
The twins were just child actors, no worse than I've seen in many shows. I think it might be due to the speech impediment... Did you know that director Peter Moffatt originally wanted identical twin girls? JNT didn't want to deviate from the script and the Conrads were an 11th hour find, after JNT made his decision. As a kid, either sex wouldn't have bothered me. Reading the information now, it's something of a shame Moffatt didn't get the chance to use the two girls. I never read why JNT was so stern, and I don't want to go into "conjecture mode" too much. Wasn't there a horror movie made in the early 1980s with twin girls in a hallway with blood? That's a bit of a stretch but no less plausible than any other notion, I suppose. The post-regeneration trauma made sense to me, even as a kid. It was set up and explained in both the end of "Caves" and more loosely implied in "Twin Dilemma". But casual viewers missing out on "Caves" would far more likely to take the infamous scene out of context. Making the story a season ender on top of making the new Doctor "unlikable but will grow nicer over time" certainly did not help.
Try it with the commentary turned on. Paul Darrow, along with Colin, and Nicola, provides a lot of fun and information in it.
The funny part is, when I saw it originally, the 6th Doctor's era was finally feeling as if everything was coming into place. The story was a bit lightweight, but the 6th persona was always engaging to watch no matter what.
"Timelash" is under budget, had a very VERY basic plot (to replace an initial entry that was rejected due to copyright issues with the Daleks)... it's not bad but could have been a lot more interesting if tightened up. Part one with Herbert is the more effective episode. Paul Darrow clearly is having much fun hamming up the place. Probably because he saw there wasn't much in the plot that was remarkable and I'll admit, underplaying Tekker would have really made the story come across a lot worse.
To me, though, "Revelation" is a complex masterpiece of juggling so many double acts... Fantastic direction, which is what season 22 consistently needed. Colin and Nicola both get some great lines. Peri and the DJ, once they meet, make up for a lot of DJ scenes that would alienate the person waking up from suspended animation just as much as they might annoy the viewer. I personally thought the DJ was inspired, and I'm a fan of Alexei Sayle's silly style of humor. His being exterminated ended up feeling poignant and tragic. Very creative choice in using "Fire" for one of the action scenes, though the Hendrix estate wanted so much money that the home video releases had to have the (already audibly distorted) music excised.
McCoy's did bring in its own sets of triumphs and errors.
Six is just as much the Doctor as anyone has ever been (except for the Warrior). The problem was, the show was at its most misoginistic, sadistic and frankly most cynical phase its ever been. Davison's years weren't Wine and Roses, but they at least felt more competent and adequate than the mid-80's, and indeed with Colin's two seasons and Sylverster's first season.
While I do have a fondness for season 23, both it and the seasons that sandwich it are fairly bad, especially 24, the literal nadir of the franchise for me. As such, Colin Baker still manages to work with the character and impress, despite his awful coat (which, sfdebris argue is what actually caused the show's cancellation), and I would've loved to have seen at least one season more of him, though not the 24th season that we did get.
While I do have a fondness for season 23, both it and the seasons that sandwich it are fairly bad, especially 24, the literal nadir of the franchise for me. As such, Colin Baker still manages to work with the character and impress, despite his awful coat (which, sfdebris argue is what actually caused the show's cancellation), and I would've loved to have seen at least one season more of him, though not the 24th season that we did get.
maybe we need a DVD commentary for Paul Darrow and Colin Baker on the B7 episode City On The Edge of Forever where the roles are reverse and Baker hams (no pun intended) it up as "Baban the Butcher"
This is funny as well.
Largely good, but I wish he re-watched the episodes he had critiqued. Shockeye was intending on cooking Peri (not "raping", unless the reviewer was cherrypicking out of context), and it's a well known fact that the Doctor shoved nobody into the acid bath where one guard slipped in while lunging, and had pulled in the other guard believing it was the Doctor - with no sign of the Doctor being aggressive, only defensive and using a bench as a shield - not a ram. Body language analysis isn't my strong point but even I can tell the Doctor wasn't shoving everyone he could find into the bath. But he did make a Bond-like quip after the incident.
Her's right though, Colin's presence does improve "The Twin Dilemma" no end.
Yeah, I feel the awfulness of the show's direction and the coat largely overshadow Colin Baker's worth in the role. He's giving it his all, all the time, and I think that's why he's hurt when he's mentioned as the Worst Doctor in various polls, as his efforts seemingly go unacknowledged, even by Who greats like Terrance Dicks.
Ironically, the Tenth Doctor gets almost as many "arrogant, insufferable git" moments as Six, but got away with it because Tennant Sad Puppy Eyes or Wose Angst. Granted, a few times the ep did give him a comeuppance for it.
Early Twelve is pretty much modelled on Six but comes across too much of an asshole for it, despite being paired with the one companion who might understand - because 1) he takes too long to give his "Pyramids of Mars" speech and 2) she's still dealing with him not being Eleven, who she fancied. Which could be a metaphor for Six/Peri, in a way.
Early Twelve is pretty much modelled on Six but comes across too much of an asshole for it, despite being paired with the one companion who might understand - because 1) he takes too long to give his "Pyramids of Mars" speech and 2) she's still dealing with him not being Eleven, who she fancied. Which could be a metaphor for Six/Peri, in a way.
It helped that Ten, for all his jerkiness, was surrounded by better-constructed stories, led by assured well-known writer, instead of JNT, whose good taste is infamous for lacking it, and Eric Saward, who infamously disliked Colin Baker as the Doctor.
I remember loving the 6th Doctor when the episodes originally screened (I was around 14-15 from memory). I'd started as a regular viewer of the show at the last few episodes of Tom Baker's era. I think Logopolis was the first story I watched completely. So Peter Davison has always been "my Doctor". But when Colin Baker first came on the screen at the end of Androzani I remember being quite excited to see what was going to happen next. I don't recall having any issues with the choking scene at that time, viewing it as a part of the regeneration trauma. I also don't remember having an issue with the twins acting (although that aspect makes the story almost unwatchable now as an adult). I thought the costume was great (as a child of the 80's that sort of tasteless fashion was normal) and I still quite like it even now, although it does impose a limitation that the Doctor can't just blend in anywhere and is immediately front and centre, storywise. The special effects and cheap set design are where the show really gets let down. This was clearly the worst era for Doctor Who in that respect (while effects for earlier eras are more primitive, they're usually pretty good for their time and budget, whereas Colin's era almost felt like the crew didn't care. The pantomime aspect of the show really comes to the fore and you can see that the people working on the show really felt it was a children's show (in a condescending way) rather than a show for the whole family.
Anyway, best to worst, as far as I remember thinking when it originally aired.
The Two Doctors
Attack of the Cybermen
The Mark of the Rani
Timelash
Twin Dilemma
Terror of the Vervoids
The Mysterious Planet
The Ultimate Foe
Revelation of the Daleks
Vengeance on Varos
Mindwarp
I was going to do a second list with my ranking now, but having thought about it I'm not sure a lot would change. Other than probably dropping Twin Dilemma a bit lower and moving Vengeance on Varos a little higher I'm actually pretty happy with that. Of course I haven't seen some of the episodes in a while and maybe a re-watch would change my mind, but most of my memories of the show are based on the novelisations (which I'm currently working on a complete read through) and through that mode, many of the stories hold up much better than they do on screen. Certainly the special effects and acting are significantly better in my head.
Anyway, best to worst, as far as I remember thinking when it originally aired.
The Two Doctors
Attack of the Cybermen
The Mark of the Rani
Timelash
Twin Dilemma
Terror of the Vervoids
The Mysterious Planet
The Ultimate Foe
Revelation of the Daleks
Vengeance on Varos
Mindwarp
I was going to do a second list with my ranking now, but having thought about it I'm not sure a lot would change. Other than probably dropping Twin Dilemma a bit lower and moving Vengeance on Varos a little higher I'm actually pretty happy with that. Of course I haven't seen some of the episodes in a while and maybe a re-watch would change my mind, but most of my memories of the show are based on the novelisations (which I'm currently working on a complete read through) and through that mode, many of the stories hold up much better than they do on screen. Certainly the special effects and acting are significantly better in my head.
What is it about Vengeance on Varos that makes you rate it so low? It's the best of the lot, with The Two Doctors coming second.
I'm not sure there's anything particular I could point to in the episode. It's less a case of it being a bad storyand more that I simply enjoyed the other stories more. I think (from memory) that the bickering between Six and Peri was at its peak in this story (especially the first episode) and possibly that detracted from my enjoyment. Also the level of violence in the episode was higher than I generally expect from Doctor Who (although I suspect that was the point). It's quite possible that when I eventually get to a re-watch of this particular era I may well rate it higher. It is one of the stories I've only seen a couple of times since its original airing and I haven't seen it in at least 10 years. I was working through a sampling of stories from each Doctor's era with my kids a couple of years ago but we stalled after The Twin Dilemma. Maybe it's time to pick that up again. If so I'll make sure to include Vengeance just to see if I'm mis-remembering it. They still haven't seen McCoy or McGann at all.
I found it compelling more for the guest characters than the Doctor (and Peri is one of my least-favorite companions).
That said, I wouldn't recommend it for young kids, as it is violent in places. But I guess violence is relative. The stories with killer plants tend to give me nightmares (and I was rather freaked out the time I found one of the vines on the outside of the house was trying to get inside by forcing itself through my upstairs window screen).
Colin Baker is not the best Doctor but I find his episodes to be the most watchable of 80's Dr. Who. I think Dr Who scripts improved during his era, and I liked his companions, Peri and Mel.
Of all his episodes, I most enjoyed Attack of The Cybermen, The Two Doctors, Revelation of The Dakeks, The Mysterious Planet, and Mindwarp. Mindwarp is probably my favorite because it is so dramatic(The doctor goes crazy, betrays Peri, and can't stop a mad scientist from transferring an evil slug creature's mind to her body) and it's also very funny. Sil is one of the most memorable Dr. Who characters.
Of all his episodes, I most enjoyed Attack of The Cybermen, The Two Doctors, Revelation of The Dakeks, The Mysterious Planet, and Mindwarp. Mindwarp is probably my favorite because it is so dramatic(The doctor goes crazy, betrays Peri, and can't stop a mad scientist from transferring an evil slug creature's mind to her body) and it's also very funny. Sil is one of the most memorable Dr. Who characters.
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