Question regarding Data

[Christopher]

^^The way Picard sees it, a lot of people behaved in unfortunate or out-of-character ways due to their terror in the Borg crisis (or at least what seemed like a major Borg crisis back in those innocent pre-Destiny days). So he decided not to hold it against them. Kadohata made poor decisions in the "mutiny," but so did Worf by forgetting his diplomatic training and acting like a berserker; so did Nechayev by forgetting the trust and respect she'd shared with Picard in the past; so did Picard himself by being so quick to act like a renegade rather than finding a more diplomatic solution. Basically it wasn't anybody's finest hour, and it would be unproductive to cast blame because there was plenty of blame to go around.

As for Leybenzon and T'Lana, they weren't punished for their actions. Picard was just as willing to forgive them, even though they, unlike Kadohata, didn't change their minds about siding with the admiralty over Picard. After all, they all sincerely believed they were acting in the best interests of the Federation, they just disagreed on how to do that. But T'Lana recognized that her behavior revealed problems she needed a leave of absence to work out; and Leybenzon made a good-faith effort to work with the rest of the crew for a few months, but decided he couldn't trust Picard when another Borg-related mission arose.

Just in general, blame and recriminations don't do much good. They're not a way of solving problems, just perpetuating them. It's better to be able to put past disagreements behind you and work together. Just ask Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

I can totally see Picard having that attitude about it. I can't see Worf being so forgiving or understanding though. Not like he'd follow her around constantly giving her s--t about it or anything like that. Maybe in a more subtle way..well I guess subtlely isn't Worf's strong suit

I hope we get to see what Kadohata's husband thinks about all this someday, I imagine he would be pretty ticked off.

 

[Christopher]

I can totally see Picard having that attitude about it. I can't see Worf being so forgiving or understanding though. Not like he'd follow her around constantly giving her s--t about it or anything like that. Maybe in a more subtle way..well I guess subtlely isn't Worf's strong suit

Don't forget, this isn't the first-season Worf who tried to shoot the viewscreen when Q appeared on it. This is a man who's risen through the ranks, learned patience and responsibility, and spent four years as the Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire. He can indeed be subtle, and he's smart and mature enough to see the big picture and move past petty recriminations.

As I said, Worf isn't proud of the way he acted during that crisis either. He forgot all those years of experience as a senior officer and a diplomat and reacted like a berserker, contributing nothing to the resolution of the crisis. He let himself down. So he doesn't feel he's in any position to judge Kadohata.

I hope we get to see what Kadohata's husband thinks about all this someday, I imagine he would be pretty ticked off.

Miranda and Vicenzo worked out their marital tensions in the months following Before Dishonor; by the time of Greater Than the Sum, their problems are all in the past. Presumably she didn't keep her lapses secret from him, and presumably they too are mature enough to forgive and move on rather than clinging to petty recriminations over something that's over and done with.

Even if the characters hadn't put the events of Before Dishonor behind them before, it's a cinch that the events of Destiny made it all seem trivial in comparison. The Enterprise crew has too many new problems and responsibilities to deal with; they can't be bothered to dwell on stuff that happened eight or ten months before. It's all in the past now, part of a different era. None of it matters anymore, and there are more important and immediate things on all their minds.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

^^ Cool, makes sense to me. Still not with ya on the Data issue Christopher, but your thoughts on Kadohata are appreciated and after hearing you put it that way I tend to agree.

I wonder if we will ever see the crew's reaction to what happened to T'Lana and Leybenzon? Even though they weren't well liked they were still a part of the E-E for awhile.

 

[William Leisner]

I wonder if we will ever see the crew's reaction to what happened to T'Lana and Leybenzon? Even though they weren't well liked they were still a part of the E-E for awhile.

Spoiler: the Destiny trilogy, and a bit beyond

The Borg killed 63 billion. There are plenty of other deaths among those that will have much larger impacts on our heroes...

 

[JoeZhang]

So am I the only person who actually likes Kadohata?

I don't dislike her, I just find her very bland. Moreover, the attempts to make her sound english by slotting in bits of (out of date) English slang means that when I think of the character, this is how she appears to me -

 

[captcalhoun]

sorry, what? out of date British slang? which? where she calls people 'luv'? get that daily at work from strangers. 'wanker'? still very current...

 

[JoeZhang]

sorry, what? out of date British slang? which? where she calls people 'luv'? get that daily at work from strangers. 'wanker'? still very current...

I've never encountered anyone under 40 who uses luv - and that's regional to start with (in the same way "chuck" is or "mon" or "ezie") is.

 

[DimesDan]

sorry, what? out of date British slang? which? where she calls people 'luv'? get that daily at work from strangers. 'wanker'? still very current...

Plus she says bollocks in Q&A which had me in stitches when I read it.

Plus I know a few people who say "luv" and they are all under 30!

 

[Dayton Ward]

^ I thought I told you to quit calling me that.

 

[captcalhoun]

i get women, mostly, of all ages calling me 'luv', 'darling' and 'sweetheart'. 98% of them don't even know they're doing it. with some women it seems to be a kind of verbal tic. like kids today saying 'innit' or 'like'. which i, like, totally admit i keep doing, like. innit though?

 

[DimesDan]

i get women, mostly, of all ages calling me 'luv', 'darling' and 'sweetheart'. 98% of them don't even know they're doing it. with some women it seems to be a kind of verbal tic. like kids today saying 'innit' or 'like'. which i, like, totally admit i keep doing, like. innit though?

When I was at uni, I was in Stoke on Trent and instead of luv, people would say duck, after a while I got so annoyed at this, I'd go quack quack which didn't exactly go down well!

As for the innit thing, my good, that just gets on my tits!

 

[ireactions]

You know what? All death stinks. I've lost people, not in fiction but in reality. Death sucks and it's ugly and it's pointless and it's stupid and it's random. If a fictional death leaves you feeling frustrated and angry at the wrongness and unfairness of it, then if you ask me, that's simply being authentic. And in real life we don't get to reverse it. We have to live with it and move on, no matter how pointless it was.

Gosh. I never thought of it this way. I guess I have to accept that Data, the greatest STAR TREK character ever, is gone for good. Reading this helped me get over it. I guess I can finally bring myself to look at STAR TREK again. Let me check out this cool comic I just found for a dollar. I'm ready to read it now that I've accepted that Data can never return.

Whu -- !! Hahahaah! Yessss!!! YES YES YES YES YES! In your face, Christopher! We WIN!!! WE WINN!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tiberius]

The books have made it pretty clear that Data cannot return through B-4. For one thing, only memory was transferred, not personality (precedent: Data didn't take on Lal's personality when he downloaded her memories). For another, B-4 has a much more primitive neural net and isn't capable of processing at anywhere near Data's level.

More generally, most of the folks involved in plotting the novels feel that resurrection has been overused in ST and would prefer to avoid it.

Agreed. There's much more story telling potential in having a person who has Data's memories and NOT being data than there is in having, "Oh, look, Data's back," and pretending that the whole thing didn't happen.

And any storytelling potential that DOES exist by bringing Data back has already been explored with Spock.

 

[Christopher]

Wow, talk about thread necromancy. This thread is 4 years old.

 

[Tiberius]

My god, I never even noticed!

I saw the thread in the "New Posts' section and started reading from the first post. Bloody trolls resurrecting it too!

 

[Markonian]

If we can resurrect a years-old, dead thread, we can also resurrect Data. After all, he's just a glorified Microsoft Windows with a robot body, isn't he?

The arguments to keep future Captain Data dead are sound an numerous.

One of these is that death in real life is pointless and irreversible. However, that argument reinforces my hope of resurrection. After all, why not kick death in the backside by bringing at least fictional characters back? For those, we are gods, we can do anything.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

If we can resurrect a years-old, dead thread, we can also resurrect Data. After all, he's just a glorified Microsoft Windows with a robot body, isn't he?

I'm curious to see where Hive goes, because its first issue posited a potentially interesting angle to resurrecting Data.

 

[Mike Farley]

Surely Data uses the Android operating system?

 

[ireactions]

I wasn't trolling as much as I was poking fun at how like, one month after this thread, Data was resurrected in COUNTDOWN. And also noting how resurrections in fiction can reflect or reveal some incredibly juvenile attitudes to life and death.

Ultimately, I think COUNTDOWN is set far enough in the future that STAR TREK novelists could simply avoid going that far to avoid dealing with Data -- or they could just ignore it.