Oh, "Atom Bomb Baby" by The Five Stars, in the post by Captain Kris Kringle immediately above mine:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/qua...of-the-federation.311250/page-8#post-14348631
Quark's root beer analogy of the Federation
- Thread starter Ragitsu
- Start date
Oh, "Atom Bomb Baby" by The Five Stars, in the post by Captain Kris Kringle immediately above mine:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/qua...of-the-federation.311250/page-8#post-14348631
Diamond City Radio!
I think that Quark was completely accurate in his opinion regarding the Federation.
Due to the nature of the Federation they've got an almost endless supply of fanatical moralistic zeal behind their actions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Ferengi culture, whatever you think about it, will be progressively (and was observedly being) obliterated by the "benevolent" Federation.
Behind the facade the Federation despises Ferengi, Klingon and other's culture to it's very core, they are all competition and a threat to this organization's monopolies, material and intellectual.
The strange thing is that it'd be so easy to usurp the Federation, which would be interesting to see in a future Trek.
Due to the nature of the Federation they've got an almost endless supply of fanatical moralistic zeal behind their actions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Ferengi culture, whatever you think about it, will be progressively (and was observedly being) obliterated by the "benevolent" Federation.
Behind the facade the Federation despises Ferengi, Klingon and other's culture to it's very core, they are all competition and a threat to this organization's monopolies, material and intellectual.
The strange thing is that it'd be so easy to usurp the Federation, which would be interesting to see in a future Trek.
I mean, the Federation doesn't have to be sinister for its desire to persuade other cultures to abandon traits of which it disapproves and to adopt traits of which it approves to be real. It's very clear that the Federation would like to see the end of misogynist and classist oppression on Ferenginar, for instance.
And that process does mean that a Ferengi society receptive to Federation influence will become less distinct and more Federation-like.
Is that a bad thing? Not inherently. In some contexts yes, in others no. But it is a very real thing we see in 24th Century-era ST. The last two Klingon Chancellors were installed by Federation officers, even.
And that process does mean that a Ferengi society receptive to Federation influence will become less distinct and more Federation-like.
Is that a bad thing? Not inherently. In some contexts yes, in others no. But it is a very real thing we see in 24th Century-era ST. The last two Klingon Chancellors were installed by Federation officers, even.
1) I assume DS9 serves Henry Weinhard's.
2) Has it been mentioned (and is it true?) that root beer is generally disliked outside of the USA? It caught my attention when a Klingon was teasing Alexander about root beer like it was universally associated with Earth. Root beer floats, no less.
2) Has it been mentioned (and is it true?) that root beer is generally disliked outside of the USA? It caught my attention when a Klingon was teasing Alexander about root beer like it was universally associated with Earth. Root beer floats, no less.
Last edited:
I know it was pretty universally reviled in Japan when I lived there. My friend’s Japanese husband compared it to toilet bowl cleaner if I recall. My friend and I were having root beer floats at Hard Rock Cafe in celebration of Independence Day and our significant others both sampled our drinks and hated them. At the time, Hard Rock Cafe and Snoopy themed restaurants were reportedly the only places you could get root beer due to its unpopular taste. I like root beer myself but I will say the flavoring used in a popular Japanese iodine throat gargle was reminiscent of root beer, no doubt leading to the common complaint of it tasting medicinal.
It's just an unusual drink to get your hands on most of the time.
Probably one of those Marmite/Vegemite Love/Hate drinks.
I like root beer but it's one of the more expensive soft drinks as it comes in glass bottles.
The only one I can think of availability wise is Australian brand, Bundaberg.
Probably one of those Marmite/Vegemite Love/Hate drinks.
I like root beer but it's one of the more expensive soft drinks as it comes in glass bottles.
The only one I can think of availability wise is Australian brand, Bundaberg.
?
It's interesting that root beer should be somewhat unpopular outside the U.S., if only because there are many different varieties here and there's a lot of variation in flavors. I've had some that I consider way less palatable than other recipes. Maybe what's available in countries like Japan is only a very limited selection, and many Japanese might not realize how much variety actually exists?
It kind of reminds me how many Americans think sushi is only raw fish and rice, when that's not the entirety and the word sushi more accurately describes the rice element.
Raw fish or meat is sashimi and isn't always combined with sushi, although of course it's a very popular pairing. But as someone who generally doesn't eat fish at all, I'm glad there are many other options to choose from. Eel is better. 
It kind of reminds me how many Americans think sushi is only raw fish and rice, when that's not the entirety and the word sushi more accurately describes the rice element.
Raw fish or meat is sashimi and isn't always combined with sushi, although of course it's a very popular pairing. But as someone who generally doesn't eat fish at all, I'm glad there are many other options to choose from. Eel is better. 
Only those of us with refined palates love black licorice.
I've always loved root beer. When I stopped drinking cola, root beer became my fall back when I want something other than water - it's not as sweet as cola or other sodas, which is why I find Quark's analogy amusing. Then there's Reed's Ginger Ale and Ginger Beer... *YUM!*
In Japan, root beer flavoring is an additive in many medicines; there, people learn - at an early age - to associate the taste with an unpleasant context.
Reed's is the real deal; Canada Dry is a joke, by comparison. What happened to them?
The Federation trying to "bring in" other worlds and civilizations into its fold does have a some amount of coloniality within it.
"We're better together. So join us!" is marketing for "Our way is better" is marketing for "We'll make you better!" is marketing for "We'll turn you into us!"
On the point of "It's ultimately a choice", I'd argue: Is it really a choice for a society when you worm your way through into that society and through various methods and inducements turn enough of the leadership of that society to "agree to your point of view"? Because this is textbook what the British did in the Indian subcontinent, until it turned to full on Occupation and Colonization.
Having said that, we do have examples in Trek where civilizations were smart enough not to join the Federation but only to ally with it like the Klingons and Ferengi.
IMO, it would have been interesting to see if the Federation had instead not been a politically united entity but a common security entity. Worlds needn't join the political union but would provide common resources and receive common benefits in return.
"We're better together. So join us!" is marketing for "Our way is better" is marketing for "We'll make you better!" is marketing for "We'll turn you into us!"
On the point of "It's ultimately a choice", I'd argue: Is it really a choice for a society when you worm your way through into that society and through various methods and inducements turn enough of the leadership of that society to "agree to your point of view"? Because this is textbook what the British did in the Indian subcontinent, until it turned to full on Occupation and Colonization.
Having said that, we do have examples in Trek where civilizations were smart enough not to join the Federation but only to ally with it like the Klingons and Ferengi.
IMO, it would have been interesting to see if the Federation had instead not been a politically united entity but a common security entity. Worlds needn't join the political union but would provide common resources and receive common benefits in return.
Only those of us with refined palates love black licorice.
I agree. Some folks are missing out.
Ah, makes more sense.
One aspect I like with the FASA Trekverse is that there are several tiers of Federation membership, and not every culture wants to jump into full status after contact is established. Many worlds or governments prefer associate membership, where they have fewer benefits and responsibilities and less voting power, but do gain access to benefits like resource sharing, protection and assistance from Starfleet, and so forth. FASA assumed that by the time of TOS there were as many as 500 worlds in the Federation, but it's not clear how many of these might be full members like Earth or Vulcan. So the figure isn't necessarily at odds with Picard's line that the Federation had 150+ worlds, he could be citing those that have the full status.
I like this arrangement for many reasons, not least that it would ease the problem of building a bureaucracy across interstellar space and it gives associate worlds the option to potentially move to full status, if they wish. Lots of options.
Similar threads
