Q, the Borg, and DS9

[Arpy]

^ because nothing they could have ever said or done could “handle” the Q. If they wanted to be trickster gods, they would be treated as such and come what may.

Yeah shivkala maybe flashbacks would have been the way to include them. Maybe on Remembrance Day while Sisko is facing off with a new enemy and drew from his last experience. They didn’t do flashbacks much did they, or Jennifer would have been a more frequent guest. Gotta leave the captain open to new chicks at every port mentality maybe.

Of course, if they flashbacks went well, the audience would want a trickle then a flood of new Borg stuff. Maybe a FC tangent story about the Defiant going to or in the battle too.

 

[ichab]

In a recent tweet, Robert Hewitt Wolfe said that the writers on DS9 were forbidden from using Q after “Q-Less” and the Borg after “Emissary” as they became the purview of VOY.

I would have had no problem following that edict. One Q episode was one too many and the Borg got overexposed in Voyager. If only Lwaxana Troi could have been added to that list.

How would the show have been different if it could have included more from them? What stories would you imagine being told?

I don't think there would have been more Q episodes. The character just didn't have the same chemistry with Sisko as he did Picard. I could see the Borg being used sparingly a few times before the dominion war kicked off.

 

[kkt]

To tell you the truth, I think Q was overused in TNG already.

 

[Arpy]

"QPid" didn't need to happen (too TOS) but whatever. "True Q" was a stinker. And (depending on the day of the week you ask) "Tapestry" was all in Picard's head. But "All Good Things..." I love. That's not going anywhere.

I wonder if Q could have used Kira to get to Sisko. She was a terrorist, right? What if he pulled a "Hide and Q" with her and gave her the ability to thwart Cardassia from ever having annexed Bajor. Little by little he reels her in, returning Kai Opaka from the Gamma Quadrant, bringing Vedek Bariel back to life, bringing forth the prophesied Golden Age for Bajor...sewing doubt in her that maybe she is the Emissary after all given everything she's able to do for her people and the alternative being the Occupation all over again. She never would have imagined it before but actually experiencing it changes one's perspective. Only at the end we see that it wasn't Q messing with Sisko at all but the Pagh-Wraiths seducing her to be their ally...their Executor? All Paradise for Bajor would cost is the overthrow of the Prophets'...the wormhole aliens'...Emissary.

 

[DonIago]

^Interesting idea, but that seems more like a multi-episode story arc than a single episode one-and-done.

 

[kkt]

The DS9 writers had so many good ideas, I'd glad they worked on them instead of playing with TNG's toys.

 

[Arpy]

Oh pish posh. The Bajorans, Ferengi, Trill, and Cardassians were TNG's toys. Sisko's backstory at Wolf 359 and working at Utopia Planitia were TNG's toys. Miles O'Brien, Keiko, and Worf were TNG's toys. The uniforms they wore were TNG's toys. DS9 would have done well to play with more of TNG's toys. There should have been Sovereign and Ambassador Class starships everywhere in the fleet battles. How are you going to do the Federation at war without using or even mentioning Starfleet's flagship? Worf should have gotten a visit from at least one of his old friends from the Enterprise both at his wedding and after the death of his wife.

 

[kkt]

Worf getting visits from his old friends would have been a plus. However, it's understandable, the war was on both times and you can't necessarily divert the Enterprise or give some of her senior officers a couple of week's leave to travel by runabout or commercial just to visit a friend. Showing Worf getting a recorded message should have been easy enough both in-universe and for Star Trek to do, though. The regular characters transfering over didn't bother me, or the uniforms or the starship classes. They're part of the shared universe.

It's really Q that I would object to sharing. Q is one entity and shouldn't be showing up all over the place. If superbeings like Q are really all over the galaxy, the galaxy is a very different place from the usual Star Trek where the Federation is in charge of its fate. It becomes a galaxy where which superbeings you are aligned with or feel well-disposed towards you is way more important than the Federation's science, exploration, or intentions. More like ancient human civilizations in which how Zeus or Aphrodite were feeling about one particular hero that particular week was way more important than anything they could do.

A few Q stories were interesting, but they're not really part of the Rodenberry vision of the Federation as a self-determining entity, and they're death to storytelling because any conflict in the story is quickly reduced to whose side Q will be on, can we persuade Q that we're cute enough puppies that he should bail us out of our latest difficulty (that Q probably created for us) rather than whether we win or lose or find some compromise.

 

[Arpy]

I see a more hands-off approach to Q. He’s not there to save us. And when he puts the crew in danger people tend to die — a pretty heavy cost if you’re the one dying. Nah, he’d be there to cause trouble and test the crew. And this being DS9, what if the crew fails one of his tests? What if that’s how Jadzia died? Or Rom? No gods taking sides, just causing trouble. And that’s what any antagonist does, whether it’s Dukat or Brunt or Sloane or what have you.

 

[Qonundrum]

In a recent tweet, Robert Hewitt Wolfe said that the writers on DS9 were forbidden from using Q after “Q-Less” and the Borg after “Emissary” as they became the purview of VOY.

How would the show have been different if it could have included more from them? What stories would you imagine being told?

DS9 certainly had enough material to make its own life with, and - of all the shoehorned TNG characters shoved into early-DS9, Q was the least-offensive -- despite still feeling out of place. Could a later episode with Q have worked, noting Q's noting Sisko didn't behave like popsicle Picard had? Maybe, but not with the "Let's take the humans to our world and make it look like a disused gas station in a desert so they can 'relate'."

Beyond "Emissary" for character setup, the Borg would have been one-note in DS9 and were already dreary in season 6/7 TNG. VOY eventually drove them into the ground, but gave them a second lease on life in the way STFC could not. Seeing Sisko get all pissed off wouldn't do all that much. No. The Dominion and Maquis were already better adversaries, allowing much more universe expansion and building up their own.

 

[Qonundrum]

Voyager might have been a better show if they had to make up their own alien threats. The Q got old pretty quickly for the audience and it's not very believable that a Q would keep wanting to play with humans. How many times did you go play with an ant's nest when you were little? A couple, maybe 3 or 4 even, but probably not more. And the Borg stopped being as interesting when they discovered they had a queen and killing her would kill all of them.

I dunno, regarding Q. Some people keep watching the same sports teams all their lives. Others drink the same brand of beer. Others play the same video games. Others get nagged by their life partner for wanting to do nothing but play video games. Q could have enjoyed pestering humans, though Q-Less's ending was sufficiently ambiguous. And with the Maquis and Dominion becoming their own, there was no need for Q anyway. Q was always best in TNG.

 

[bdub76]

DS9 became the show about Klingons and Ferengi. It's on a space station, so I struggle with the Borg. There isn't a whole lot you can do here. I'd love more Q, but how many times do we need to watch Sisko punch Q? There isn't a whole lot of chemistry between these two actors. Q works with Picard because Picard is really uptight.

 

[Mrs. Silvercrest]

I wish they had Q on the show one more time at least.
A little Q goes a long way.
I could see him trying to mess with them like he did the crew on Next Generation.
Maybe instead of the whole Robinhood thing something something more serious.
Like having them defend Earth's past wars, like maybe the civil war, that could have been a very deep and personal thing for Sisko. And the others as well. So they get sent back maybe on opposite sides or?
Well, I don't know the details, but they have to talk with the people and maybe even meet the President, but having to talk with the people on both sides and listening to their stories and such.
As, far as the Borg, they had enough troubles with the Dominion.
I don't think the Borg were needed.
Though, I can almost seeing them good thru the wormhole the first time and what do they find a HUGE Borg ship just sitting there waiting for. I can see them making a run for it, oops, wrong way and let's seal that sucker up!