Pros and cons of Franz Joseph's plans

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by TIN_MAN, Feb 7, 2009.

  1. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    This is in essence the same as my idea. I don't think it stretches credibility too far.

    Hear hear! I agree to this whole-heartedly. In fact, I've always been one of the few who totally love Star Trek V! It's "TOS-ishness" is unbounded and I think that's high octane awesome. Three cheers for Star Trek V!

    So there!
    ;)

    --Alex
     
  2. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Well, heres my deck 19 WIP, FWIW.

    First with picks, showing where I put the observation room from 'Wink of an Eye'...
    http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/tin_man_2009/observationdeck.jpg

    Here's one w/ just the sketch, for a little more clarity...
    http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/tin_man_2009/Picture044.jpg

    Basically, for the O/R I just added a window to this room (in the plans) where there was none before (which would require fudging window locations on the outside). and I added a bathroom to the briefing room, but otherwise this deck is just the way FJ had it. I chose this locale in the ship because I thought it was the closest match with what we saw onscreen, even the corridor outside the room is pretty close?
     
  3. BK613

    BK613 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Location:
    West of the Moon, East of the Sun
    *cough* The Mark of Gideon *cough*

    Great work BTW
     
  4. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    D'oh! :rolleyes: I did that without even realizing it? Thanks for the correction and kind words BK613. ;) My mind knew what it wanted to say, but my fingers had other Ideas! Doesn't look like it matters much though, since nobody else seems to be visiting/commenting? :(
     
  5. Gagarin

    Gagarin Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Take heart =)

    I think my biggest CON with the FJ plans, for me, is right there on that deck. The backup bridge seems to be a 100 percent duplication of the real bridge. That always seemed strange not wasn't what auxillary control seemed to depict in the show, etc.

    My thought was if you were using that bridge, you probably wouldn't have use for most of the stations at that point. Just, you know, the "go-fast" and "call-for-help" buttons =)
     
  6. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    ^^ Thanks for chiming in. :)
    Yeah, I reach where you're coming from about the bridge, If you look upthread at my deck 8 WIP you'll see I did doodle with the Auxiliary control room a little. I left the 'E' bridge here, alone, as I figure it might be used to control the secondary hull when, and if, the saucer is detached? If you look closely though, you'll see that there are fewer stations, presumably only those that are absolutely necessary?
    I guess the idea of duplicating the main bridge is so that the command crew(s) would feel thoroughly comfortable and "at home" when, and if, the time came for the necessity of manning the emergency bridge(s), and thereby not miss a beat under otherwise trying conditions?
     
  7. Gagarin

    Gagarin Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    I took another look and you're right - it's like a half or 3/4 bridge =).

    That might have been FJ's take on it - make it familair so they wouldn't miss a beat. Are you seeing this secondary hull to detatch and operate while the primary hull makes a landing or limps off seperately, or is this the secondary hull as a life boat?

    On the other hand, I suppose I thought of the main bridge as a highly expensive and sophisticated grouping of equipment that would be prohibitive to duplicate. And that space would be such a premium on the grey lady - should there be 2 spare command/control areas?
     
  8. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Well, I think FJs take on it was that either hull could act as a life boat if necessary? About the expense of of bridge components, I don't know, seeings how they seem to be standard and interchangable? But I do think it makes more sense for the deck 8 E/B to duplicate the M/B as it's in the center of the ship, whereas the deck 19 bridge ought to be more like the Auxiliay control from the series, seing how it's not necessary for it to conform to a circle, but that can be chalked up to standardisation of componants again, I guess?
     
  9. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    My 2cents...

    We know, without ambiguity, that the TOS Enterprise has two control areas, and there's no reason to conclude that there was another one.

    As far as I'm concerned, the "Auxiliary control room" is almost certainly found in the secondary hull (is there any evidence to the contrary? I can't recall any reference to the deck for that room during TOS, can you?). So if the saucer was severely damaged and had to be abandoned, or even if the bridge was destroyed but the rest of the saucer was still intact, you'd operate the ship from there.

    That said, we ARE talking FJ's plans... and he was trying to "rethink" things in TOS in order to have them make more sense to his perspective. Which, honestly, is just fine with me. His ship wasn't the TOS ship, after all... as far as I'm concerned, it's a totally different design. Whether or not it's the same "class" is debatable... that depends on whether the two designs are functionally equivalent (can do all the same jobs in the same way) and logistically equivalent (can be maintained by the same facilities, and having the same material requirements). But the same design? Nahhh, not so much.

    I'd love to see a F.J-type "U.S.S. Constitution" flying alongside a TOS-style "U.S.S. Enterprise."
     
  10. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    I think "I Mudd" established that it was on deck eight? Otherwise, I would have modified the deck 19 E/B to look like the A/C instead of the deck 8 E/B, (actually deck 7 in FJ's original) as I did. But I might change my mind?
     
  11. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Well... Deck 8 exists, at least in part, in the dorsal...

    Depending on whether you accept the 947' number or allow some upsizing, and whether or not you require 11 P-hull decks or just 8... this would fall in to different locations in the dorsal But that's not actually an entirely unreasonable place for it, albeit inconsistent with the "set reuse/redressing" we see in various episodes.

    Still, if that's the only line where that was mentioned, I'd be probably "mentally retcon" that to be "deck 18."

    Side note... right now, in "my version" of the Enterprise, Deck 19 is the landing bay deck, and deck 18 is the ground-floor level of Main Engineering.

    In my ship, the bridge sits atop the #1 computer core (primary hull decks 2 and 3, centerline), the main computer center sits atop the #2 computer core (Decks 8 and 9, centerline)... and auxiliary control will be adjacent to and directly connected to the #3 core, in the secondary hull.

    I like having the "control rooms" directly tied to the computer... so that you can't just snip a few wires and disable the bridge entirely. After all... virtually everything on this ship is going to be controlled by computer-type systems, and most directly by the main computer systems. The computers are the "brain of the ship"... with the bridge, or the auxiliary control room for that matter, being tied directly in.

    Of course... I can have auxiliary control in the primary hull, on deck 8. It just seems a bit... unnecessary, even wasteful? Because you need something on the secondary hull, and main engineering just ain't gonna cut it as a control center for driving the ship. :)

    Anyway, just a few random thoughts from me... carry on!
     
  12. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Location:
    Twin Cities
    The Enterprise (and her sister ships) always had three places from which the ship could be controlled... the bridge, the auxiliary control room and emergency manual override.
     
  13. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Aha! I'd forgotten about EMO entirely. And for the life of me, I can't recall where it was mentioned. My most vivid memory of Auxiliary Control is from "The Doomsday Machine," of course (wasn't it a redress of the cabin set? Or was it sickbay? Hard to tell.. I think they mixed-and-matched a bit.)

    I remember hearing the words "Emergency Manual Monitor" a few times... is that the right term, or are we getting confused here?

    In that case, this was the little "room on stilts" overlooking Engineering... my most vivid memory of that is from "Mirror, Mirror." I don't recall any clear indication that you could drive the ship from there, though... only that you could reroute power systems and so forth.

    EDIT: AH, yes... it was also in "The Lights of Zetar," where it was established as having a direct tie into the ship's computer... so that's perfect. And it does sort of drive where I'll be putting the computer core #3...

    SO...

    1) Main bridge - Deck 1, Primary hull.

    2) Auxiliary Control - Deck 8, Primary hull (adjacent to computer core #2)

    3) Emergency Manual Monitor - Deck 17, Secondary Hull (second level of Engineering, overlooking the main bay, and adjacent to computer core #3)
     
  14. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Location:
    Twin Cities
    Sorry about that... I was in a hurry (running late to pick up my wife) when I posted. :eek:
     
  15. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    The auxiliary Control was it's own unique set, although constructed from bits and pieces of old sets, such as the pilot bridge monitor etc. Unfortunatly there are no surviving plans of the originalset that I know of, but you can get a good Idea of what it looked like from the the "Star Trek Sketchbook" pages 95-112 where we see the miniature set MJ made.
     
  16. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
  17. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    Hey, I was just looking at that book. :)
     
  18. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    ^^ Great minds think alike! ;)
     
  19. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    So where do you go from here, TIN MAN? What's next on the FJ agenda?
     
  20. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Well, I think this is my last major tweak of FJ's plans, I was just waiting for the hoopla from the new movie to die down. Let me know what you think...

    This first one is the gymnasium area, as much like MJ's sets as I could get? Plus other minor stuff, like where the "ships theater" might be, and where I think the "full scale" hanger bay set fits in etc.
    http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/tin_man_2009/gymnasium.jpg

    And here's another, more FJ friendly, version...
    http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/tin_man_2009/Picture043.jpg

    And just for comparison, FJ's original from Otten's forgotten trek site
    http://www.ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/images/blueprints/deck20.gif

    I guess from here we can consider more radical reforms, like what to do about the swimming pool, and deflecter machinary an such? :)
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2009