Pros and cons of Franz Joseph's plans

[Albertese]

...


The explanation I like best is that word "deck" and the number have no correlation to what deck. Deck is just a label indicating that that segment is a new deck.

The number could be either a number for all the stops on the ship, from the bottom of engineering to the bridge, or it is something left over from construction. Please note that the numbers go in the opposite direction from all normal ship deck numbering. Whether the Bridge is Deck A or Deck 1, that is where the counting starts.


... the numbers are some sort of maintenance reference number so the maintenance crew knows exactly where they are in the ship ("Look, Ted, the Deck 78 stop, we're at the top of the dorsal. We were supposed to go to 87 outside of Sickbay."). Basically a kind of shorthand for the maintenance crew and not an actual label for what the deck number really is (which would have gone from 22 at the bottom to 7 at the top - don't hold me to those numbers which I dredged out of my memory).

This is in essence the same as my idea. I don't think it stretches credibility too far.

As for the content of ST:V, if you really look at the story and the production values, it is most like the original series than any other movie. From my perspective, if you cut out ST:V, you might as well cut out half the original series. There are far more wacky stories from those three years. Need I mention "Spock's Brain". If you keep keep all the series, you can't cut ST:V. The other movies just have such higher production values that you can really tell how much better they are.

Hear hear! I agree to this whole-heartedly. In fact, I've always been one of the few who totally love Star Trek V! It's "TOS-ishness" is unbounded and I think that's high octane awesome. Three cheers for Star Trek V!

So there!


--Alex

 

[TIN_MAN]

Well, heres my deck 19 WIP, FWIW.

First with picks, showing where I put the observation room from 'Wink of an Eye'...
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/tin_man_2009/observationdeck.jpg

Here's one w/ just the sketch, for a little more clarity...
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/tin_man_2009/Picture044.jpg

Basically, for the O/R I just added a window to this room (in the plans) where there was none before (which would require fudging window locations on the outside). and I added a bathroom to the briefing room, but otherwise this deck is just the way FJ had it. I chose this locale in the ship because I thought it was the closest match with what we saw onscreen, even the corridor outside the room is pretty close?

 

[BK613]

Well, heres my deck 19 WIP, FWIW.

First with picks, showing where I put the observation room from 'Wink of an Eye'...

*cough* The Mark of Gideon *cough*

Great work BTW

 

[TIN_MAN]

D'oh! I did that without even realizing it? Thanks for the correction and kind words BK613. My mind knew what it wanted to say, but my fingers had other Ideas! Doesn't look like it matters much though, since nobody else seems to be visiting/commenting?

 

[Gagarin]

D'oh! I did that without even realizing it? Thanks for the correction and kind words BK613. My mind knew what it wanted to say, but my fingers had other Ideas! Doesn't look like it matters much though, since nobody else seems to be visiting/commenting?

Take heart =)

I think my biggest CON with the FJ plans, for me, is right there on that deck. The backup bridge seems to be a 100 percent duplication of the real bridge. That always seemed strange not wasn't what auxillary control seemed to depict in the show, etc.

My thought was if you were using that bridge, you probably wouldn't have use for most of the stations at that point. Just, you know, the "go-fast" and "call-for-help" buttons =)

 

[TIN_MAN]

^^ Thanks for chiming in.
Yeah, I reach where you're coming from about the bridge, If you look upthread at my deck 8 WIP you'll see I did doodle with the Auxiliary control room a little. I left the 'E' bridge here, alone, as I figure it might be used to control the secondary hull when, and if, the saucer is detached? If you look closely though, you'll see that there are fewer stations, presumably only those that are absolutely necessary?
I guess the idea of duplicating the main bridge is so that the command crew(s) would feel thoroughly comfortable and "at home" when, and if, the time came for the necessity of manning the emergency bridge(s), and thereby not miss a beat under otherwise trying conditions?

 

[Gagarin]

^^ Thanks for chiming in.
Yeah, I reach where you're coming from about the bridge, If you look upthread at my deck 8 WIP you'll see I did doodle with the Auxiliary control room a little. I left the 'E' bridge here, alone, as I figure it might be used to control the secondary hull when, and if, the saucer is detached? If you look closely though, you'll see that there are fewer stations, presumably only those that are absolutely necessary?
I guess the idea of duplicating the main bridge is so that the command crew(s) would feel thoroughly comfortable and "at home" when, and if, the time came for the necessity of manning the emergency bridge(s), and thereby not miss a beat under otherwise trying conditions?

I took another look and you're right - it's like a half or 3/4 bridge =).

That might have been FJ's take on it - make it familair so they wouldn't miss a beat. Are you seeing this secondary hull to detatch and operate while the primary hull makes a landing or limps off seperately, or is this the secondary hull as a life boat?

On the other hand, I suppose I thought of the main bridge as a highly expensive and sophisticated grouping of equipment that would be prohibitive to duplicate. And that space would be such a premium on the grey lady - should there be 2 spare command/control areas?

 

[TIN_MAN]

Well, I think FJs take on it was that either hull could act as a life boat if necessary? About the expense of of bridge components, I don't know, seeings how they seem to be standard and interchangable? But I do think it makes more sense for the deck 8 E/B to duplicate the M/B as it's in the center of the ship, whereas the deck 19 bridge ought to be more like the Auxiliay control from the series, seing how it's not necessary for it to conform to a circle, but that can be chalked up to standardisation of componants again, I guess?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

On the other hand, I suppose I thought of the main bridge as a highly expensive and sophisticated grouping of equipment that would be prohibitive to duplicate. And that space would be such a premium on the grey lady - should there be 2 spare command/control areas?

My 2cents...

We know, without ambiguity, that the TOS Enterprise has two control areas, and there's no reason to conclude that there was another one.

As far as I'm concerned, the "Auxiliary control room" is almost certainly found in the secondary hull (is there any evidence to the contrary? I can't recall any reference to the deck for that room during TOS, can you?). So if the saucer was severely damaged and had to be abandoned, or even if the bridge was destroyed but the rest of the saucer was still intact, you'd operate the ship from there.

That said, we ARE talking FJ's plans... and he was trying to "rethink" things in TOS in order to have them make more sense to his perspective. Which, honestly, is just fine with me. His ship wasn't the TOS ship, after all... as far as I'm concerned, it's a totally different design. Whether or not it's the same "class" is debatable... that depends on whether the two designs are functionally equivalent (can do all the same jobs in the same way) and logistically equivalent (can be maintained by the same facilities, and having the same material requirements). But the same design? Nahhh, not so much.

I'd love to see a F.J-type "U.S.S. Constitution" flying alongside a TOS-style "U.S.S. Enterprise."

 

[TIN_MAN]

As far as I'm concerned, the "Auxiliary control room" is almost certainly found in the secondary hull (is there any evidence to the contrary? I can't recall any reference to the deck for that room during TOS, can you?). So if the saucer was severely damaged and had to be abandoned, or even if the bridge was destroyed but the rest of the saucer was still intact, you'd operate the ship from there.

I think "I Mudd" established that it was on deck eight? Otherwise, I would have modified the deck 19 E/B to look like the A/C instead of the deck 8 E/B, (actually deck 7 in FJ's original) as I did. But I might change my mind?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

As far as I'm concerned, the "Auxiliary control room" is almost certainly found in the secondary hull (is there any evidence to the contrary? I can't recall any reference to the deck for that room during TOS, can you?). So if the saucer was severely damaged and had to be abandoned, or even if the bridge was destroyed but the rest of the saucer was still intact, you'd operate the ship from there.

I think "I Mudd" established that it was on deck eight? Otherwise, I would have modified the deck 19 E/B to look like the A/C instead of the deck 8 E/B, (actually deck 7 in FJ's original) as I did. But I might change my mind?

Well... Deck 8 exists, at least in part, in the dorsal...

Depending on whether you accept the 947' number or allow some upsizing, and whether or not you require 11 P-hull decks or just 8... this would fall in to different locations in the dorsal But that's not actually an entirely unreasonable place for it, albeit inconsistent with the "set reuse/redressing" we see in various episodes.

Still, if that's the only line where that was mentioned, I'd be probably "mentally retcon" that to be "deck 18."

Side note... right now, in "my version" of the Enterprise, Deck 19 is the landing bay deck, and deck 18 is the ground-floor level of Main Engineering.

In my ship, the bridge sits atop the #1 computer core (primary hull decks 2 and 3, centerline), the main computer center sits atop the #2 computer core (Decks 8 and 9, centerline)... and auxiliary control will be adjacent to and directly connected to the #3 core, in the secondary hull.

I like having the "control rooms" directly tied to the computer... so that you can't just snip a few wires and disable the bridge entirely. After all... virtually everything on this ship is going to be controlled by computer-type systems, and most directly by the main computer systems. The computers are the "brain of the ship"... with the bridge, or the auxiliary control room for that matter, being tied directly in.

Of course... I can have auxiliary control in the primary hull, on deck 8. It just seems a bit... unnecessary, even wasteful? Because you need something on the secondary hull, and main engineering just ain't gonna cut it as a control center for driving the ship.

Anyway, just a few random thoughts from me... carry on!

 

[Shaw]

As far as I'm concerned, the "Auxiliary control room" is almost certainly found in the secondary hull (is there any evidence to the contrary? I can't recall any reference to the deck for that room during TOS, can you?). So if the saucer was severely damaged and had to be abandoned, or even if the bridge was destroyed but the rest of the saucer was still intact, you'd operate the ship from there.

The Enterprise (and her sister ships) always had three places from which the ship could be controlled... the bridge, the auxiliary control room and emergency manual override.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

As far as I'm concerned, the "Auxiliary control room" is almost certainly found in the secondary hull (is there any evidence to the contrary? I can't recall any reference to the deck for that room during TOS, can you?). So if the saucer was severely damaged and had to be abandoned, or even if the bridge was destroyed but the rest of the saucer was still intact, you'd operate the ship from there.

The Enterprise (and her sister ships) always had three places from which the ship could be controlled... the bridge, the auxiliary control room and emergency manual override.

Aha! I'd forgotten about EMO entirely. And for the life of me, I can't recall where it was mentioned. My most vivid memory of Auxiliary Control is from "The Doomsday Machine," of course (wasn't it a redress of the cabin set? Or was it sickbay? Hard to tell.. I think they mixed-and-matched a bit.)

I remember hearing the words "Emergency Manual Monitor" a few times... is that the right term, or are we getting confused here?

In that case, this was the little "room on stilts" overlooking Engineering... my most vivid memory of that is from "Mirror, Mirror." I don't recall any clear indication that you could drive the ship from there, though... only that you could reroute power systems and so forth.

EDIT: AH, yes... it was also in "The Lights of Zetar," where it was established as having a direct tie into the ship's computer... so that's perfect. And it does sort of drive where I'll be putting the computer core #3...

SO...

1) Main bridge - Deck 1, Primary hull.

2) Auxiliary Control - Deck 8, Primary hull (adjacent to computer core #2)

3) Emergency Manual Monitor - Deck 17, Secondary Hull (second level of Engineering, overlooking the main bay, and adjacent to computer core #3)

 

[Shaw]

I remember hearing the words "Emergency Manual Monitor" a few times... is that the right term, or are we getting confused here?

Sorry about that... I was in a hurry (running late to pick up my wife) when I posted.

 

[TIN_MAN]

The auxiliary Control was it's own unique set, although constructed from bits and pieces of old sets, such as the pilot bridge monitor etc. Unfortunatly there are no surviving plans of the originalset that I know of, but you can get a good Idea of what it looked like from the the "Star Trek Sketchbook" pages 95-112 where we see the miniature set MJ made.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Here's a pic of MJ's mini set, the yellow thing in the upper center is a "birds eye view" of the Auxiliary control room.
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/tin_man_2009/P106_7_model_top.jpg

 

[Praetor]

Hey, I was just looking at that book.

 

[TIN_MAN]

^^ Great minds think alike!

 

[Praetor]

So where do you go from here, TIN MAN? What's next on the FJ agenda?

 

[TIN_MAN]

Well, I think this is my last major tweak of FJ's plans, I was just waiting for the hoopla from the new movie to die down. Let me know what you think...

This first one is the gymnasium area, as much like MJ's sets as I could get? Plus other minor stuff, like where the "ships theater" might be, and where I think the "full scale" hanger bay set fits in etc.
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/tin_man_2009/gymnasium.jpg

And here's another, more FJ friendly, version...
http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv73/tin_man_2009/Picture043.jpg

And just for comparison, FJ's original from Otten's forgotten trek site
http://www.ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/images/blueprints/deck20.gif

I guess from here we can consider more radical reforms, like what to do about the swimming pool, and deflecter machinary an such?