Production Quality Of Picard

[fireproof78]

it was a dark show. Everyone getting drunk.damaged people. 7 of 9 murdering an unarmed person in cold blood. Picard letting her take weapons to carry out the murder. The blonde scientist murdering her boyfriend because of his hubris. Lol. Yeah what a paradise and evolved humans.

Then don't watch it. Because for all the complaining there is still this obsession with this show that indicates some sort of investment.

The examples of addiction, murder and the like have been told again and again from TNG. I'm sorry that Picard has offended some delicate sensibility of what Star Trek supposedly is, but it isn't anything new to Trek.

Spoiler: Pictures of "Evolved" humans

Dr. Marr-psychotic murderer:

O'brien-racist

Barclay-addict

Pressman traitor and willing to kill to cover up his secrets

Maxwell-murderer and racist

And possibly - suggesting that humans are back to working for money, and that there are wealth gaps and class differences . Maybe Picard is ret-conning the money thing and deciding that people do work for money - or maybe not, i's just curious to see.

I'm not a hundred percent convinced of this. For one, Raffi is not a reliable narrator so her comments towards Picard are skewed, at best. Secondly, we've seen human freelancers before in Okanna, Vash and Yates (on DS9) so I don't think Rios is all that different.

 

[Dukhat]

^I think you meant “Maxwell,” not Maddox, for that last photo.

 

[fireproof78]

^I think you meant “Maxwell,” not Maddox, for that last photo.

Oops...edited.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I'm not a hundred percent convinced of this. For one, Raffi is not a reliable narrator so her comments towards Picard are skewed, at best. Secondly, we've seen human freelancers before in Okanna, Vash and Yates (on DS9) so I don't think Rios is all that different.

True, Rios is pretty much like them, but the thing with Vash, Okana and Yates is that they (the writers/creators) just never explained why they did what they did for money, when it was supposed to be obsolete on earth (and humans didn't need any to live), they just showed it.

They didn't even use the term "freelancers" to describe why they did what they did, which would have been a good term for them. They just didn't bring up the subject at all.

It seemed more like the shows needed to create motivations for a plot, even though the shows themselves directly stated that humans didn't use money or need it for anything anymore. So they just did it, no explanations.

The subtle hints that Picard drops about money and jobs being tied together may be with Raffi living in a comfortable looking trailer after she got fired, while Picard lives in something of a mansion with workers.

It seems like Picard may be trying to draw parallels with 21st century issues with the suggestion that being fired and lower income equals living in a camper.

The workers at the Planitia Shipyards looked like average workers, to the point where you wonder if they were actually getting paid in money for their work or not. It was the subtle things.

Usually from the previous shows, people always seem to get decadent meals from a sophisticated replicator, but for these workers, it comes out of some basic looking microwave like device and the food looks simpler and even grosser.

As if to say this is basically what the workers or the Shipyards can afford unless they have some money for fancier stuff.

The producers and obviously Steward know about the replicators and the post poverty/scarcity society of 24th century earth from the previous shows. But it just may be possible that they're overwriting a little of that because they want the Picard's settings to resemble our contemporary issues .

All this may be nothing, but based on what Steward said about taking a different approach with Picard, I wouldn't be too surprised.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Then don't watch it. Because for all the complaining there is still this obsession with this show that indicates some sort of investment.

The examples of addiction, murder and the like have been told again and again from TNG. I'm sorry that Picard has offended some delicate sensibility of what Star Trek supposedly is, but it isn't anything new to Trek.

Spoiler: Pictures of "Evolved" humans

Dr. Marr-psychotic murderer:

O'brien-racist

Barclay-addict

Pressman traitor and willing to kill to cover up his secrets

Maxwell-murderer and racist

I'm not a hundred percent convinced of this. For one, Raffi is not a reliable narrator so her comments towards Picard are skewed, at best. Secondly, we've seen human freelancers before in Okanna, Vash and Yates (on DS9) so I don't think Rios is all that different.

Well I’m obviously disappointed. I was looking forward to this show and it really just stinks. There are no heroes to look up to here. Even Picard no longer seems hero worthy after he clearly knew what 7 was going to do with those phasers. Star Trek always inspired but now it just makes me think I’m watching early 21st century bullshitters. Yeah not what Star Trek was supposed to be. The original series which takes pace over a hundred and thirty years before this seems to have better evolved humans and a more bright future. This show could have been much better. Even beyond the darkness the story itself sucked and was boring as hell. When you’re doing a revival like this you need to know the audience and obviously the producer here don’t. A show that got it perfect for their revival was cobra kai. The producers and writers of that show know the fan base and made the show for them. Like I said it’s called “know your audience” it’s a simple concept and the doors making this show dropped the ball big time.

 

[Dukhat]

Well I’m obviously disappointed. I was looking forward to this show and it really just stinks. There are no heroes to look up to here. Even Picard no longer seems hero worthy after he clearly knew what 7 was going to do with those phasers. Star Trek always inspired but now it just makes me think I’m watching early 21st century bullshitters. Yeah not what Star Trek was supposed to be. The original series which takes pace over a hundred and thirty years before this seems to have better evolved humans and a more bright future. This show could have been much better. Even beyond the darkness the story itself sucked and was boring as hell. When you’re doing a revival like this you need to know the audience and obviously the producer here don’t. A show that got it perfect for their revival was cobra kai. The producers and writers of that show know the fan base and made the show for them. Like I said it’s called “know your audience” it’s a simple concept and the doors making this show dropped the ball big time.

So we won’t expect any posts from you when PIC season 2 comes out, because you won’t be watching it, correct?

 

[fireproof78]

Well I’m obviously disappointed. I was looking forward to this show and it really just stinks. There are no heroes to look up to here. Even Picard no longer seems hero worthy after he clearly knew what 7 was going to do with those phasers. Star Trek always inspired but now it just makes me think I’m watching early 21st century bullshitters. Yeah not what Star Trek was supposed to be. The original series which takes pace over a hundred and thirty years before this seems to have better evolved humans and a more bright future. This show could have been much better. Even beyond the darkness the story itself sucked and was boring as hell. When you’re doing a revival like this you need to know the audience and obviously the producer here don’t. A show that got it perfect for their revival was cobra kai. The producers and writers of that show know the fan base and made the show for them. Like I said it’s called “know your audience” it’s a simple concept and the doors making this show dropped the ball big time.

If we only look up to heroes only when they are right and successful then it is not an inspiration in the bad times.

 

[Sci]

it was a dark show.

Yes. But it was also a dark show that ended in a very good place.

Everyone getting drunk.damaged people. 7 of 9 murdering an unarmed person in cold blood. Picard letting her take weapons to carry out the murder. The blonde scientist murdering her boyfriend because of his hubris. Lol. Yeah what a paradise and evolved humans.

TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY have plenty of episodes with Humans who get drunk/high, take revenge, or murder people while under mind control. The difference is that PIC's tone and framing aren't as reassuring; the narrative isn't out to baby us by saying, "But don't worry, these are just a few bad apples; most of humanity is still great."

Well I’m obviously disappointed. I was looking forward to this show and it really just stinks. There are no heroes to look up to here.

I don't think that means there's anything wrong with PIC. I think it means you need to re-examine your assumptions about heroism.

Even Picard no longer seems hero worthy after he clearly knew what 7 was going to do with those phasers.

The entire point of that scene and of the scene that followed was that he didn't, and that Seven didn't want him to know she was still going to kill Bjayzel because she didn't want to deprive him of his faith in humanity.

Star Trek always inspired but now it just makes me think I’m watching early 21st century bullshitters. Yeah not what Star Trek was supposed to be. The original series which takes pace over a hundred and thirty years before this seems to have better evolved humans and a more bright future.

The very first TOS episode featured a woman who decided she couldn't go back to human society and had to live among aliens because she was ugly. Another early episode was about a guy selling space miners mail-order brides and this being portrayed as just fine. Numerous episodes portrayed women as easily frightened and in need of male reassurance in the midst of crises. You'll forgive me if I call bullshit on the idea that TOS portrays a more "evolved" humanity.

When you’re doing a revival like this you need to know the audience and obviously the producer here don’t.

The show's a success. Don't mistake a few assholes bitching on the Internet for a trend.

 

[fireproof78]

he original series which takes pace over a hundred and thirty years before this seems to have better evolved humans and a more bright future.

Who still had the power of choice. Kirk stated it best "We are killers but we are not going to kill today."

That's the difference between the TOS humanity and the projected humanity that fans expect-evolved didn't mean perfect or incapable of failing. It means that the basics of humanity are still there but humans have the capability of choice.

 

[NCC-73515]

Dr. Marr
O'brien
Barclay
Pressman
Maxwell

Which of those were main characters?

 

[fireproof78]

Which of those were main characters?

I was not aware that made a difference.

 

[NCC-73515]

Main characters get a lot more focus, more screentime, more connection to the stories. If they're in a bad place, the whole show follows.
Side characters and one episode characters are occasional reminders of the few remaining dark things in the otherwise bright world.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The examples of addiction, murder and the like have been told again and again from TNG. I'm sorry that Picard has offended some delicate sensibility of what Star Trek supposedly is, but it isn't anything new to Trek.

Spoiler: Pictures of "Evolved" humans

Dr. Marr-psychotic murderer:

O'brien-racist

Barclay-addict

Pressman traitor and willing to kill to cover up his secrets

Maxwell-murderer and racist

They're all white humans so it doesn't count. They're just going through a tough time and we shouldn't judge. But a dark-skinned addict comes along and it's a dystopia!

 

[fireproof78]

Main characters get a lot more focus, more screentime, more connection to the stories. If they're in a bad place, the whole show follows.
Side characters and one episode characters are occasional reminders of the few remaining dark things in the otherwise bright world.

Except we see the dark things a whole lot more than is acknowledged by the main characters. Evil admirals and other tropes still pop up.

Sorry, but in this supposed "evolved" society I would expect leadership to actually be an improvement. But, instead, we have paranoia, conspiracy theories, murders, traitors and the like in positions of power.

As others have pointed out multiple times the Federation is not as nice as Picard wants it to be. Those secondary characters shed far more light than the mains.

 

[Sci]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The supposed utopia of TNG is badly overstated. TNG presents us with a society with some very serious flaws and some screwed-up people. I mean, hell, Picard is in his 50s when we meet him and still suffers from commitment phobia! LaForge is about two thirds of the way to becoming a goddamn incel; he's a total creep to Leah Brahms. Riker constantly engages in borderline sexual harassment, and he completely disrespects Ensign Ro's cultural heritage as a Bajoran. And God knows Worf is all kinds of messed up.

But the difference is, TNG doesn't frame its characters as deeply flawed, and it maintains a tone that is optimistic and bright even when the material logically indicates there are larger social problems at work within the Federation. And because television is a visual art, frame and tone trump the actual text of the narrative in the audience's mind. Sure, we just saw a Federation nationalist begin a witch-hunt that damn near sucked in the whole ship on the basis of what appears to be deeply-ingrained anti-Romulan prejudice -- but Picard gave us an inspirational speech and the lighting is still bright, so everything's fine!

PIC does present us with a Federation that is more troubled than it was in TNG; that is true. But the degree to which it is more troubled is constantly exaggerated, because PIC as a narrative uses frame and tone to support its text instead of contrasting against its text like TNG did.

 

[fireproof78]

The very first TOS episode featured a woman who decided she couldn't go back to human society and had to live among aliens because she was ugly. Another early episode was about a guy selling space miners mail-order brides and this being portrayed as just fine. Numerous episodes portrayed women as easily frightened and in need of male reassurance in the midst of crises. You'll forgive me if I call bullshit on the idea that TOS portrays a more "evolved" humanity.

Because it is bullshit. TOS definitely was more optimistic but it was plagued with sexism of the day, sadly.

 

[Makarov]

They're all white humans so it doesn't count. They're just going through a tough time and we shouldn't judge. But a dark-skinned addict comes along and it's a dystopia!

Those characters were judged by the show itself. Pressman was arrested, O'Brien got lectured by Picard, Maxwell was lectured and arrested, crystalline entity lady got a bombshell of a lecture from Data.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Those characters were judged by the show itself. Pressman was arrested, O'Brien got lectured by Picard, Maxwell was lectured and arrested, crystalline entity lady got a bombshell of a lecture from Data.

7 of 9 killed a unarmed women.

 

[fireproof78]

7 of 9 killed a unarmed women.

A murderer and torturer who had killed before and would kill again.

Kind of like killing the Borg.

 

[fireproof78]

Those characters were judged by the show itself. Pressman was arrested, O'Brien got lectured by Picard, Maxwell was lectured and arrested, crystalline entity lady got a bombshell of a lecture from Data.

Doesn't change that they came from the supposed evolved human society.