Or were the Eminarians the reason for the lost lives, and the Federation just didn't realize it yet?
Production Order Group Viewing 2018
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Maybe the other planet destroyed them.
Maybe they clone themselves like the Vorta do. So the death of individuals isn't felt as keenly unless there are no replacements on hand (Kirk and crew + Fox)
I always assumed it was the Eminiar-Vindikar war that was responsible for all the ships being lost. However, in thinking about this episode, that doesn't make all that much sense. In 20 years and thousands of lives, there should be some survivors. Surely some other crew besides Kirk's Enterprise would be uncooperative and not willingly surrender all their crews to disintegration. Were all those ships and lives Federations citizens?
2 for 2! Makes you wonder if all the Federation bureaucrats are pinheads. Give me an upstanding and rational Starfleet commander any day.
Interesting note that Robert Fox turns up in some non-canon works. I read his appearance in the old DC comics issue from July 1984. He's also appeared in a Starfleet Corps of Engineers novel, an additional Trek novel, and in a FASA RPG module. Seems our pinhead is a busy little bureaucrat. Maybe that explains the bags under his eyes. I thought for a moment that Robert Fox might have been a TOS version of a Zackdorn.
Interesting outfit Fox is wearing. Different than Galactic High Commissioner Ferris' attire. Different cultures? Different worlds within the Federation?
Is this our first mention of the United Federation of Planets?
Stardate 3191.2 Just for those keeping track.
So, the people of Eminiar VII said in no uncertain terms "don't stop and say hi. Just keep on truckin'." Yet the Enterprise stops anyway? Under direct instruction of Fox who gets his orders from the Federation. So much for being a peaceful non-aggressive bunch. "We're going to barge in here and talk to you whether you like it or not!" Maybe the Enterprise should have stopped at Vendikar instead. Who gave Eminiar the right to decide for the whole star system who comes and goes? Maybe that was part of the reason for the war.
Eminiar VII. Is this the 7th planet in the system? Looks very habitable. And they are the ones that originally colonized Vendikar, which is the 3rd planet in the system. Interesting. Makes you wonder about the Goldilock's Zone for this star system. Speaking of star system, what is it's name? Is it Eminiar? Why else call your planet Eminiar VII?
How did Eminiar know Code 7-10? If they blasted the Valiant from orbit, then who told them the codes? Or is this just a standard greeting package on part of the Federation? "Hi, we're your neighbors. Here is a list of our comm codes in case you ever need to contact us or use them."
USS Valiant. Different than the SS Valiant from "Where No Man Has Gone Before." Was the SS Valiant not a Federation/Starfleet vessel? Interesting the two ships sharing the same name. Wonder if that is going to be a common thing in this series?
Eminiar and Vendikar have spaceflight but simply decided never to venture out of their star system. As we see from the episode, no doubt that was because of the war. Still, the beginning of the episode makes it seem like this space flight was specifically warp technology. Is that a standard for making contact with new species? Don't make contact until they achieve warp technology?
Oh yeah, breaking the Prime Directive all over the place here. I'm not 100% sure if forcing their way in and ignoring Code 7-10 is a violation of the Prime Directive. There must be some mechanism in place that allows for diplomatic relations, embargoes, treaties, boycotts.. you know, the normal stuff that nations do in dealing with one another. On the other hand, Kirk waging a 1 man war against Eminiar, attacking disintegration booths and destroying their war computer is most definitely a violation. Can't even claim the civilization was stagnant. Eminiar looked very vibrant.
I got a "Logan's Run" vibe. Mea 3, Anan 7. Just like Logan 5 and Jessica 6. Plus both civilizations depicted computers ruling some aspect of their lives. Also, both civilizations had mandatory reporting to death chambers. Makes me wonder if Mea 3 and Anan 7 and the rest are clones or birthed by petri dish or some artificial means.
Everyone was so blase about reporting to the disintegration booth. A nice, well mannered line. No emotional outbursts. No family saying their last goodbye. There was one couple that hugged but that looked more like a "have a good day, see you later" type of hug than a "I'm sorry you're about to die" hug.
I know it was 1960s budget and TV limitations, but I am getting a kick now out of how these planet wide (or even just nation wide) governmental buildings are portrayed on the inside. Was that Eminiar's entire council? 3 guys sitting behind a table in a room the size of my living room? Very underrated for the leader(s) of the entire planet.
Very good point. They don't know what the ship is made of. Where the screens up at the time? Eh, probably not. Still, had this been a real emergency, the Enterprise would have detected incoming fire and reacted accordingly. Shields, evasive action, defensive fire. Something the computer did not account for.
Along those lines, why is Mea 3 reporting to disintegration and nobody else who was in the room during the attack? Why isn't the council chamber "more secure" or "better fortified" than other locations? Are casualties chosen at random? Are they chosen based on whose homes were destroyed regardless of where the individual was during the time of attack? Are certain people immune or exempt to being "killed?" Are children spared, for example?
Sonic weapons? Used on a ship in orbit? What?
Everyone else has noted about Fox beaming down despite the ship being at alert and shields up. How did he get beamed down anyway, regardless of the shields? Someone would have to cooperate with him. I'm sure he could not order a transporter tech to beam him down in the middle of a combat situation. Even federal authority has it's limits in commanding military personnel. And what is this about phasers not being able to fire full strength with shields up? What kind of design is that? I would want both shields and phasers if I was battling, oh, say, a Romulan Warbird or a Gorn ship.
The Enterprise now has 500 people? Is that approximate? Is it exact? Is it an assumption? How would Anan know how many people are on the Enterprise?
Loving Scotty. Reminds me of Miles O'Brien and his combat experience prior to joining the Enterprise-D. Makes me wonder what went on in Scotty's past.
No update to the love meter this week.
Kirk Love Meter
Little Blonde Lab Technician
Jancie Rand
Evie
Andrea
Helen Noel
Miri (In the line of duty)
Lenore Karidian (In the line of duty)
Lieutenant Helen Johansson
Areel Shaw
Ruth
Enterprise computer Cygnet XIV upgrade. Kirk loves the Enterprise and the Enterprise loves Kirk!
McCoy Love Meter
Nancy Crater
Yeoman Tonia Barrows
I had similar thoughts, but saw it as an example of a planet that is part of the galactic community but have chosen to exclude themselves from day to day affairs (they probably have "go away" codes for various species)
They were a space faring civilization that knew about outsiders, at least.... I'm not sure if the original mission was a Prime Directive issue. The Federation knew they were there, but apparently didn't have much actual information yet.
Even so, if neither party had requested mediation from the Federation, what mandate would the Federation have? They might have a right to investigate the disappeared ship but surely abandoning a few people is preferable to massacring a civilian population? I wish they'd taken a different tactic in the plot.
I do however like the notion that beyond Federation territories, inhabited systems are so far apart that it has only just become possible to revisit them in the new fancy starships.
I do however like the notion that beyond Federation territories, inhabited systems are so far apart that it has only just become possible to revisit them in the new fancy starships.
Some speculated general order 24 was a bluff worked out in advance. It's clear from the context of the entire episode that this is not the case. It's an extreme order that everyone knows. Kirk even makes sure to rescind the command at the end of the episode
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That works for me and good job. I just wanted it explained. It's pretty jarring.
Right. I always assumed that GO24 was for "Operation: Annihilate" situations.
Now that's an interesting take I hadn't thought of. The proper application of the order would be target plague cities or something more humane?
I assume the war was started when the Ventikans poked fun at the Emenians' silly hats.
It's nice that Yeoman Tamula is stated to a be security personnel and that she is expressly given guard duty. I noted that the other security personnel are both lieutenants. It makes me wonder how many middle ranking officers they have in security.
It's nice that Yeoman Tamula is stated to a be security personnel and that she is expressly given guard duty. I noted that the other security personnel are both lieutenants. It makes me wonder how many middle ranking officers they have in security.
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We should do a list of the ethnic diversity seen so far. Was this really extraordinary for a television show of the time? Granted Yeoman Tamula's role is very minor, but at least it's a step in the direction of inclusivity.
We look back today and sneer that all Uhura did was "answer the space phone" but, according to the interviewed quote from Whoopie Goldberg, that was a major point of excitement during the original run. Uhura was not a maid but bridge officer.
We look back today and sneer that all Uhura did was "answer the space phone" but, according to the interviewed quote from Whoopie Goldberg, that was a major point of excitement during the original run. Uhura was not a maid but bridge officer.
Seems like there should be a Lt. Cmdr Somebody in charge of security like McCoy and Scotty are in charge of their departments.
I bet this is spot on.
Some of this is also a bit of revisionism from Nichelle from the 80s when it was cool to be on the "bash Shatner" train. She complained, IIRC, that all Uhura ever said was "Hailing frequencies open, Captain," when in fact she often had much more dialogue that just that, and showed some real personality even in non-early eps like Operation: Annihilate, Arena, Mirror, Mirror, Friday's Child, and The Changeling just to name a few. She also displays some fire in Space Seed.
Okay, I'm going for it! 
SPACE SEED
It's a classic for good reason. There's a morality play at the heart of this tale (don't mess with nature, a superior mind equals superior ambition etc) but delivered in a very exciting manner! This is in no small part due to Ricardo Montalban’s acting performance. In fact, the episode is stock full of character moments:
Speaking of McGiver, her romanticism of the past is not really that much of a stretch – plenty of people are in love with earlier centuries, seeing the historical figures as “real men” or whatever.
However, what does she do when on normal duty - paint? No wonder Kirk seems irksome with her.
The fact that an old derelict Earth ship could drift so far out here into space is even considered a possibility speaks to the technology of the time. Ah, the 1990s...When atomic powered rockets propelled us into a new age!
The timespan of “two centuries” or “two hundred years” is mentioned several times in this episode. I’ve seen it argued that the Botany Bay was travelling at a high percentage of lightspeed and so time dilation on the passengers caused them to experience only 200 years (instead of the 270 years, established by later chronologies) and I find that explanation convincing enough. However, watching the episode with that in mind it’s very coy for Kirk to keep on speaking in relation to the time that Kahn personally experienced as opposed to how much time has actually passed.
SPACE SEED
It's a classic for good reason. There's a morality play at the heart of this tale (don't mess with nature, a superior mind equals superior ambition etc) but delivered in a very exciting manner! This is in no small part due to Ricardo Montalban’s acting performance. In fact, the episode is stock full of character moments:
- The early interactions between Kirk and Spock really emphasise the Vulcan/Earthman relationship between the two men
- McCoy’s bravery and tenacity is on full show, as are his more “old fashioned” views on certain technology.
- The dinner scene is just replete with top notch moments.
Speaking of McGiver, her romanticism of the past is not really that much of a stretch – plenty of people are in love with earlier centuries, seeing the historical figures as “real men” or whatever.
However, what does she do when on normal duty - paint? No wonder Kirk seems irksome with her.
The fact that an old derelict Earth ship could drift so far out here into space is even considered a possibility speaks to the technology of the time. Ah, the 1990s...When atomic powered rockets propelled us into a new age!
- What possible reason could McCoy have for keeping that display of antique surgical instruments IN THE WARD? A patient waking up and seeing those tools of butchery would probably die of panic!
- Kahn’s emotional manipulation of McGivers in his cabin is nasty, but very compelling to watch.
- The guard that Kahn punches as he escapes from his cabin does an amazing stunt!Kirk says to Spock “We humans have a streak of barbarism in us” which after last week’s episode should not be news to our favourite Vulcan!
- Kahn is a real clothes horse – no less than 4 costume changes!
- Also, Kirk really hands those uniform jerseys out to anyone, doesn’t he? At least he removed the rank stripes this time.
- Uhura’s defiance of Kahn is very well done. She’s a tough cookie!
- Sickbay, the Briefing Room and the Engine Room all seem to be very close to each other
- Kahn’s trial and exile is fitting end for such a character – he and Kirk end with a nod of respect to one other.
The timespan of “two centuries” or “two hundred years” is mentioned several times in this episode. I’ve seen it argued that the Botany Bay was travelling at a high percentage of lightspeed and so time dilation on the passengers caused them to experience only 200 years (instead of the 270 years, established by later chronologies) and I find that explanation convincing enough. However, watching the episode with that in mind it’s very coy for Kirk to keep on speaking in relation to the time that Kahn personally experienced as opposed to how much time has actually passed.
I've always found Marla to be annoying but that might be because her obsession seemed rushed and forced due to it not being a two parter. I believe she would fall under his spell but enough to place her crewmates at risk? And she understands Federation capabilities. Surely she could explain that one does not simply take a starship? Take it where; it's cold outstanding you don't have a jacket?
I'm also unclear why engineering is still so poorly manned given its obvious importance. How could Khan transport over all 72 of his crew without anyone noticing? Don't unauthorised transports register? I suppose I'm willing to concede that Khan is capable of hacking the ship's sensors but one has to wonder how. I thought the ship used voice print security.
No crazy security measures like intra ship beaming though.
Was the prefix code introduced to captains take back control of their own ships? Maybe someone finally got fed up.
I'm also unclear why engineering is still so poorly manned given its obvious importance. How could Khan transport over all 72 of his crew without anyone noticing? Don't unauthorised transports register? I suppose I'm willing to concede that Khan is capable of hacking the ship's sensors but one has to wonder how. I thought the ship used voice print security.
No crazy security measures like intra ship beaming though.
Was the prefix code introduced to captains take back control of their own ships? Maybe someone finally got fed up.
Space Seed
A goodie!
Starfleet crews in the 23rd century know Morse code.
Hmm, that's odd. I don't seem to remember a world war in the 1990's.
"Give the historian something to do for a change." Ouch. Plus Kirk hurries her onto the transporter. No wonder Marla betrays them. Kirk has no respect for her.
Only 30 women among Khan's people, 31 counting Marla along with all those men. I wonder how they work that out in terms of growing their population?
Not the first time Kirk has told Spock to lay in a course rather than the navigator.
Marla likes Khaaaaan, Marla likes Khaaaaaan. Lovey dovey bonk bonk!
Security remains lax. A total stranger can get up out of bed in sick bay, grab a handy knife from the wall and threaten the doctor.
Clearly, Khan is used to giving orders and asking the questions.
No problem Mr. Mysterious Khan person who we know nothing about. By all means read all about the ship's technical specs.
"Open your heart, and I'll make you love me." --Madonna. Or Khan.
Ricardo is one buff dude.
Quite a quick betrayal by Marla. She must have had real issues being on the crew to have switched sides so easily, horniness for a hot adventurous kingly type notwithstanding.
We should be keeping a count of how many times the Enterprise gets taken over. How many is this so far?
Kirk's always the last to succumb.
Good old Scotty, right in Khan's face.
Wow, they really show Uhura getting smacked around (if you ignore that you can tell he's not really hitting her). Must have been shocking for a 60's audience.
"It does not matter. The captain is dead."--one of those lines that always stuck with me as a kid.
LOL, the gas starts coming out of the wall, Khan runs for the door, Scotty stands up, smacks a guy in the face, then runs out the door himself. I love Scotty.
Wow, Ricardo dwarfs Shatner.
Kirk Fu! The Flying Drop Kick! The Double Fisted Lumberjack! The Neck Leg Scissor! Not even superhumans can stand against Kirk Fu.
"I have five times your strength!"--another of those lines
But you cannot handle Kirk using Kirk Fu and whacking you with a handy plastic club.
No wonder Kirk is tired at the end. He's been suffocated twice and he had to fight Khan.
Kirk has the authority to drop all charges. That's a lot of authority.
Don't go, Marla! The ear-bug thing will get you!
Seriously, she's only a normal human. She's not going to stand up as well as the others. Will Khan be patient with her?
Funny, I just started reading Paradise Lost. I just read that line.
Good episode. I always liked it.
Alien watch! No new aliens, only superhumans. The list remains.
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
A goodie!
Starfleet crews in the 23rd century know Morse code.
Hmm, that's odd. I don't seem to remember a world war in the 1990's.
"Give the historian something to do for a change." Ouch. Plus Kirk hurries her onto the transporter. No wonder Marla betrays them. Kirk has no respect for her.
Only 30 women among Khan's people, 31 counting Marla along with all those men. I wonder how they work that out in terms of growing their population?
Not the first time Kirk has told Spock to lay in a course rather than the navigator.
Marla likes Khaaaaan, Marla likes Khaaaaaan. Lovey dovey bonk bonk!
Security remains lax. A total stranger can get up out of bed in sick bay, grab a handy knife from the wall and threaten the doctor.
Clearly, Khan is used to giving orders and asking the questions.
No problem Mr. Mysterious Khan person who we know nothing about. By all means read all about the ship's technical specs.
"Open your heart, and I'll make you love me." --Madonna. Or Khan.
Ricardo is one buff dude.
Quite a quick betrayal by Marla. She must have had real issues being on the crew to have switched sides so easily, horniness for a hot adventurous kingly type notwithstanding.
We should be keeping a count of how many times the Enterprise gets taken over. How many is this so far?
Kirk's always the last to succumb.
Good old Scotty, right in Khan's face.
Wow, they really show Uhura getting smacked around (if you ignore that you can tell he's not really hitting her). Must have been shocking for a 60's audience.
"It does not matter. The captain is dead."--one of those lines that always stuck with me as a kid.
LOL, the gas starts coming out of the wall, Khan runs for the door, Scotty stands up, smacks a guy in the face, then runs out the door himself. I love Scotty.
Wow, Ricardo dwarfs Shatner.
Kirk Fu! The Flying Drop Kick! The Double Fisted Lumberjack! The Neck Leg Scissor! Not even superhumans can stand against Kirk Fu.
"I have five times your strength!"--another of those lines
But you cannot handle Kirk using Kirk Fu and whacking you with a handy plastic club.
No wonder Kirk is tired at the end. He's been suffocated twice and he had to fight Khan.
Kirk has the authority to drop all charges. That's a lot of authority.
Don't go, Marla! The ear-bug thing will get you!
Seriously, she's only a normal human. She's not going to stand up as well as the others. Will Khan be patient with her?
Funny, I just started reading Paradise Lost. I just read that line.
Good episode. I always liked it.
Alien watch! No new aliens, only superhumans. The list remains.
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
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