Scotty's always awesome when he's in command.
Production Order Group Viewing 2018
- Thread starter Archivist13
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I always figured they would have to beam the unsuspecting past version in the plane up to overlay the future version, then beam him back to preserve the timeline with no memories.
I wish someone would fanedit this into a two parter jumping off of the end of the Naked Time, as per the original concept.
Meaning you can't just whip it out in quickdraw fashion, teaching and promoting a stealth mentality over attack mode.
The beaming thing makes no sense to me either. I can only think they were beaming them to their deaths and didn't want to say. I mean there's another version around nearly as good...
What good did going back in time in the Enterprise do anyway? I mean travelling forward in time would get the Enterprise back to their own century but it wouldn't wipe out the things they did when they were in the 20th century. They destroyed Christopher's aircraft. How would going forward in time (Back to the Future) stop that from happening Unless they went back to the incident that caused them to go back in time and warned themselves not to do it.
Really, that is the only thing that would make any changes to the timeline...and is in fact more or less exactly what happens! It's also something that gets exactly zero explanation, although we can infer what might have happened:
When we the viewers return to that fateful moment where Christopher first observes the Enterprise, the presence of the transporter beam temporarily disorientates the intrepid pilot so that when he next looks at the Enterprise it is long gone, appearing to vanish! Everything else then unfolds much more satisfactorily, except of course for those copies of Christopher and the guard, who have ceased to exist.
Unfortunately, this would also mean that there's an extra Enterprise flying around. Did they attempt to go back to the future as well, but somehow end up in a different timeline? Really, if there's any version of the Enterprise that has no business being in a "everything turned out fine" timeline, it's the one we are following. That bunch of faliures belongs back in the universe where they crushed a plane and messed everything up!
In Spock we trust.
WWSD
A Taste of Armageddon
Reminds me of A Taste of Honey. Get down, Boogie oogie oogie.
Ahem.
Another douchie Commissioner. Yay.
Wonder what the difference is between yellow and red alert?
Is this the first yellow alert we've seen?
Good old Phaser I.
It does seem a bit rude to show up on their planet after specifically being told to go away. Holy anti-Prime Directive, Batman.
Should've just beamed down the Ambassador. And left.
I would have bragged about how the Enterprise is completely immune to a cobalt-whatever bomb. Another Corbomite Maneuver! "Your computer is wrong. You don't have the technology to harm the Enterprise. Piss off."
McCoy, on the verge of being a dick again while Kirk is away, this time to Scotty. But Scotty knows how to handle him. "What do you want me to do, open fire?" "I'm not an officer of the line." Right, so shut up.
Spock uses the Force to make the guard open their cell. "We are not the prisoners you're looking for."
Roaches check in, but they don't check out.
I like Mea 3's outfit. Very cool.
Mea 3, Anon 7. What do the names mean?
"Sir, there's a multilegged creature on your shoulder." Ha ha. Vulcans don't lie....except when they do.
Scotty is ALWAYS awesome in command.
No Sulu this week. Helmsman of the week: Mr. DePaul!
"We can't fire full phasers with our screens up." Really? Anytime they fire phasers they have to drop their shields? But photon torpedoes can pass?
Fox, you dumbass.
You tell him, Scotty. Dumbass.
Heh. The haggis is in the fire.
Kirk Fu falls a bit short this episode.
So did they lower the shields to beam Fox down or can you beam through shields?
"Hello. I am Ambassador Fox, a dumbass."
Fox begins to get the idea that the Eminiarians may not be entirely trustworthy as they lead him to the disintegrator.
Someone actually decided that there are times when you just need to incinerate the surface of a planet and came up with an order for it: General Order 24. I suspect that violates the Prime Directive.
And wow, Kirk violates the hell out of the Prime Directive this episode.
"We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today." Quote of the episode.
Glad Fox is going to prove himself useful finally.
They almost died, and it would have been all Fox's fault. Dumbass.
So what's the deep underlying message of this episode? Technology is making it too easy to kill, making us too removed from death, so we're too eager to engage in it? If that was true in the 60's, how much more true is it in an era where unmanned drones can kill and it appears to be no more than a video game to those deploying them.
Alien Watch! New aliens!
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
Reminds me of A Taste of Honey. Get down, Boogie oogie oogie.
Ahem.
Another douchie Commissioner. Yay.
Wonder what the difference is between yellow and red alert?
Is this the first yellow alert we've seen?
Good old Phaser I.
It does seem a bit rude to show up on their planet after specifically being told to go away. Holy anti-Prime Directive, Batman.
Should've just beamed down the Ambassador. And left.
I would have bragged about how the Enterprise is completely immune to a cobalt-whatever bomb. Another Corbomite Maneuver! "Your computer is wrong. You don't have the technology to harm the Enterprise. Piss off."
McCoy, on the verge of being a dick again while Kirk is away, this time to Scotty. But Scotty knows how to handle him. "What do you want me to do, open fire?" "I'm not an officer of the line." Right, so shut up.
Spock uses the Force to make the guard open their cell. "We are not the prisoners you're looking for."
Roaches check in, but they don't check out.
I like Mea 3's outfit. Very cool.
Mea 3, Anon 7. What do the names mean?
"Sir, there's a multilegged creature on your shoulder." Ha ha. Vulcans don't lie....except when they do.
Scotty is ALWAYS awesome in command.
No Sulu this week. Helmsman of the week: Mr. DePaul!
"We can't fire full phasers with our screens up." Really? Anytime they fire phasers they have to drop their shields? But photon torpedoes can pass?
Fox, you dumbass.
You tell him, Scotty. Dumbass.
Heh. The haggis is in the fire.
Kirk Fu falls a bit short this episode.
So did they lower the shields to beam Fox down or can you beam through shields?
"Hello. I am Ambassador Fox, a dumbass."
Fox begins to get the idea that the Eminiarians may not be entirely trustworthy as they lead him to the disintegrator.
Someone actually decided that there are times when you just need to incinerate the surface of a planet and came up with an order for it: General Order 24. I suspect that violates the Prime Directive.
And wow, Kirk violates the hell out of the Prime Directive this episode.
"We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today." Quote of the episode.
Glad Fox is going to prove himself useful finally.
They almost died, and it would have been all Fox's fault. Dumbass.
So what's the deep underlying message of this episode? Technology is making it too easy to kill, making us too removed from death, so we're too eager to engage in it? If that was true in the 60's, how much more true is it in an era where unmanned drones can kill and it appears to be no more than a video game to those deploying them.
Alien Watch! New aliens!
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
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This is an excellent, highly entertaining ep - largely due to Scotty - that has some logical flaws. How Fox got down to the planet is not explained. Also, Kirk loses a fight in disappointing fashion. But the allegory is so strong and compelling and the acting so good (together with some memorable dialogue) that it's in my top 25 for sure.
I love the concept of this episode. I don't much like the moronic commissioner or the way the Federation pushes itself on the Emenians for reasons. The biggest issue is the way Scotty seems to be prepared to commit a war crime and everyone on the bridge, while a bit shocked at the order, is basically fine with it. Orders are orders.
Yeoman NotRand is devoid of personality but looks like she might be up for some girl on girl action. I still miss Janice .
Yeoman NotRand is devoid of personality but looks like she might be up for some girl on girl action. I still miss Janice .
A TASTE OF ARMAGEDDON
Watching this story straight after Return Of The Archons the similarities between the two episodes become blatant.
Other thoughts:
Also, under what authority did Kirk destroy the Eminian civilisation? At that stage they weren’t captured and could beam back to the ship at any time. The population weren’t stagnant and weren’t being mind controlled. How on earth did he talk himself out of a court martial? I guess it pays to make friends with ambassadors!
Finally, there are a LOT of reused props and sets:
The fact that some phased energy can get through is probably how the transporter beam can leak past the screens, provided you get the frequency matched correctly
Watching this story straight after Return Of The Archons the similarities between the two episodes become blatant.
- Another ship that is being chased up after being missing for decades (this time 50 years instead of 100).
- The landing party encounter a rigid, totalitarian government
- The landing party are captured
- Energy beams attack the ship (sonic disruptions in space, somehow!)
Other thoughts:
- Explicit mention of phaser-ones (in order to remain inconspicuous)
- More Spock super powers! I don't think we've seen his telepathy since Dagger Of The Mind (perhaps because it was a deeply personal thing, not usually shared with outsiders)
- Multiple references to the Federation this time.
- Mr DePaul takes the helm again – where is Sulu, off filming a home movie or something?
- Those computers blow up real good! And distressingly easily…
- Scotty's language is a lot more flowery than previous episodes – he wishes Kirk a “bonnie trip”, declares that “the haggis is in the fire” and refers to Fox as a “popinjay”. Getting back to his Scottish roots at last?
Also, under what authority did Kirk destroy the Eminian civilisation? At that stage they weren’t captured and could beam back to the ship at any time. The population weren’t stagnant and weren’t being mind controlled. How on earth did he talk himself out of a court martial? I guess it pays to make friends with ambassadors!
Finally, there are a LOT of reused props and sets:
- The bricks on the wall where Kirk first beams down look familiar. Did Starbase 11 buy the Eminian building surplass?
- The computers in the war control room are exactly the same as seen in The Alternative Factor engineering set (the same interstellar manufacturer is employed by both cultures, no doubt)
- The controls in the council chamber (where Kirk gives General Order 24) feature the tiny viewers from the gooseneck devices seen in The Cage and WNMHGB
- Trapezoid doors! Those “Exo-3” old ones got about a bit!
- The disrupters and communicators are the ones that will reappear as Klingon designs in future episodes - is this a retroactive reuse? ;-)
Can’t fire FULL phasers with defence screens up. Maybe just at a reduced level or heavy stun?
The fact that some phased energy can get through is probably how the transporter beam can leak past the screens, provided you get the frequency matched correctly
I criticize the name of the episode.
Because of the deleted scenes I suppose - the Archons really didn't have much to do with the episode.
I kept waiting for the Archons to turn up.
Someone here suggested that you might be able to beam down with screens but not beam up.
While I'm thinking a screen is a screen backwards or forwards maybe you can temporarily put your shields down for a quick beamdown where in beaming up you have to scan and it would probably take longer and you'd have to keep your shields down longer.
My thought at the time was that the Eminarians couldn't keep a potentially fatal bombardment of the Enterprise 24-7. Just as the Enterprise couldn't keep a phaser attack on a planet going on for hours. So when Eminar's defence system ran out of puff just beam Fox down. Also the Enterprise could have moved out of range temporarily or to the other side or the planet and then went back to beaming range before they were targeted again by planetary defences and used downtime to beam Fox and his sidekick down before restoring shields..
All good theories about Fox beaming down. What I mean is that the episode itself makes the curious choice of not revealing how or why Scotty allowed Fox to beam down after steadfastly placing himself in the path of Fox's wrath earlier over a similar (if not quite identical) issue.
It can be explained away in technical terms - I wish the writers and story editors of "Obsession" and "The Doomsday Machine" were around for this one - and I recall a pretty good debate about the transporters functioning through shields in another thread about a year ago, which was unfortunately derailed by some baseless yet insistent speculation. However, here I was just remarking that the episode's failure to explain it at all is very odd.
It can be explained away in technical terms - I wish the writers and story editors of "Obsession" and "The Doomsday Machine" were around for this one - and I recall a pretty good debate about the transporters functioning through shields in another thread about a year ago, which was unfortunately derailed by some baseless yet insistent speculation. However, here I was just remarking that the episode's failure to explain it at all is very odd.
It's not explained, but there is a reasonable explanation. The Eminarians have sonic disruptors, they really don't work past the upper atmosphere. Spock tells Scott to orbit out to maximum phaser range after Fox beams down and then later when Anan 7 orders the ship attacked again they report they are out of range. Scotty really earns his pay for the week in this episode, he doesn't fall for the false message from the captain and he defends the ship from damage, but Fox is a civilian with Federation authority over him. Scott is vehemently against lowering the shields or beaming anyone down but there's Fox down there later. I think Scott increased orbit even before Spock ordered it which allowed Fox to be beamed down, the sonic weapons couldn't hurt them at that distance so the shields were lowered then. He may have raised them again right after as a precaution. There must have been additional goading or whatever on Fox's part to get Scott to beam him down, wisely not scripted or cut for time, that would have "explained" it better but would have been repetitive and dragged on the plot after the first exchange.
I like how the Eminarians all have suffixes, I guess you go through a lot of names with that many casualties.
I wonder what caused "in the past twenty years, thousands of lives have been lost in this quadrant. Lives that could have been saved if the Federation had a treaty port here. We mean to have that port and I'm here to get it." That seems like a lot of traffic exposed to some hazards that a presence would prevent. Pirates? I doubt having a naval base would help too much if there is frequent storms although it would help rescue efforts. Patrolling warships would discourage hostile activity.
I like how the Eminarians all have suffixes, I guess you go through a lot of names with that many casualties.
I wonder what caused "in the past twenty years, thousands of lives have been lost in this quadrant. Lives that could have been saved if the Federation had a treaty port here. We mean to have that port and I'm here to get it." That seems like a lot of traffic exposed to some hazards that a presence would prevent. Pirates? I doubt having a naval base would help too much if there is frequent storms although it would help rescue efforts. Patrolling warships would discourage hostile activity.
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