Production Order Group Viewing 2018

[Harvey]

I still can't fully figure out how they would have made this a 2 parter to follow "Naked Time." One or both of those episodes must have been reworked. Oh, I can see how the Enterprise being flung back in time in "Naked Time" could result in traveling to the 20th Century. I just don't see getting from Psi 2000 to Earth.

Adding to what @GNDN18 said — the ending to "The Naked Time" was re-worked (and, to some extent, re-shot) a couple months before D.C. Fontana started work on "Tomorrow is Yesterday." So, while "The Naked Time" was originally conceived as "Part 1," by the time they got to "Tomorrow is Yesterday," both episodes were intended to stand alone.

 

[Nerys Myk]

A mistake carried on in Twin Peaks where people seem to call the missing girl Laura Poll-mer instead of Parm-mer! And why do Americans pronounce the name Craig as Cregg rather than Cray-ger?
JB

Do you call them Parm trees in Britain? And as noted there's no "r" at the end of Craig.

I've always felt that the ship was so heavy and not aerodynamic so that landing and taking off would require so much thrust that it would devastate the landing zone. Possible in an emergency but eek.

They've mastered artificial gravity. A flip of a switch is probably all it takes to get a ship from the ground to orbit. They aren't shooting up there with rockets.

I didn't really like the notion of the ship being built, saucer in place, on Earth

That idea goes back to the development of TOS, I think they mention it in TMOST. The San Francisco Ship yards were literally in San Francisco.

 

[J.T.B.]

That idea goes back to the development of TOS, I think they mention it in TMOST. The San Francisco Ship yards were literally in San Francisco.

Well, what it says is "The unit components were built at the Star Fleet Division of what is still called the San Francisco Navy Yards, and the vessel was assembled in space."

 

[johnnybear]

Do you call them Parm trees in Britain? And as noted there's no "r" at the end of Craig.

So you call them Polm trees then? The Craig-er was to show how ridiculous Cregg or Kregg seems! I know there are a lot of different accents in America and that contributes to diction but nothing can excuse the way certain words are pronounced!
JB

 

[Phaser Two]

So you call them Polm trees then? The Craig-er was to show how ridiculous Cregg or Kregg seems! I know there are a lot of different accents in America and that contributes to diction but nothing can excuse the way certain words are pronounced!
JB

Wait, JB - whaaat??

 

[Mytran]

For me - I say "parm" trees.

In British English the "L" in certain worlds is often silent (palm, calmer etc) although I've noticed that many American accents emphasise the "L" in these words.

FWIW

 

[Pauln6]

Do you call them Parm trees in Britain? And as noted there's no "r" at the end of Craig.

They've mastered artificial gravity. A flip of a switch is probably all it takes to get a ship from the ground to orbit. They aren't shooting up there with rockets.

That idea goes back to the development of TOS, I think they mention it in TMOST. The San Francisco Ship yards were literally in San Francisco.

There is certainly evidence that they can produce gravitons but I'm unconvinced that they can cancel the gravitational effect (anti gravitons?) of large stellar bodies. There are many instances where that would have been useful, including this episode.

What happens to atmosphere if you cancel local gravity? If you lose some of your atmosphere every time you put a ship in orbit you'd stop pretty sharpish. Plus most visuals suggest that ships use thrust to take off and slow descent.

If you use gravitons to hurl a ship into orbit, surely that is as destructive to the area as chemical thrust?

It might be that the ships have a means of reducing rather than negating their weight but this has never been stated. I like Trek tech to stand by its convictions, transporters notwithstanding.. .

 

[Nerys Myk]

There is certainly evidence that they can produce gravitons but I'm unconvinced that they can cancel the gravitational effect (anti gravitons?) of large stellar bodies. There are many instances where that would have been useful, including this episode.

What happens to atmosphere if you cancel local gravity? If you lose some of your atmosphere every time you put a ship in orbit you'd stop pretty sharpish. Plus most visuals suggest that ships use thrust to take off and slow descent.

If you use gravitons to hurl a ship into orbit, surely that is as destructive to the area as chemical thrust?

It might be that the ships have a means of reducing rather than negating their weight but this has never been stated. I like Trek tech to stand by its convictions, transporters notwithstanding.. .

Ask the folks on Ardana. They seem to be experts.

 

[Mytran]

It might be that the ships have a means of reducing rather than negating their weight but this has never been stated. I like Trek tech to stand by its convictions, transporters notwithstanding.. .

TOS was always light on the tech talk, but the pilot episode of DS9 retroactively explains much:


KIRA: Mister O'Brien, what would it take to move this station to the mouth of the wormhole?
O'BRIEN: This isn't a starship, Major. We've got six working thrusters to power us and that's it. A hundred sixty million kilometre trip would take two months.
KIRA: It has to be there tomorrow.
O'BRIEN: That's not possible, sir.
...
DAX: Couldn't you modify the subspace field output of the deflector generators just enough to create a low-level field around the station?
O'BRIEN: So we could lower the inertial mass?
DAX: If you can make the station lighter, those six thrusters will be all the power we'd need.

 

[Pauln6]

Ask the folks on Ardana. They seem to be experts.

Ooh yes! Lots of unknowns there though. Worth a look when we get that far.

TOS was always light on the tech talk, but the pilot episode of DS9 retroactively explains much:

KIRA: Mister O'Brien, what would it take to move this station to the mouth of the wormhole?
O'BRIEN: This isn't a starship, Major. We've got six working thrusters to power us and that's it. A hundred sixty million kilometre trip would take two months.
KIRA: It has to be there tomorrow.
O'BRIEN: That's not possible, sir.
...
DAX: Couldn't you modify the subspace field output of the deflector generators just enough to create a low-level field around the station?
O'BRIEN: So we could lower the inertial mass?
DAX: If you can make the station lighter, those six thrusters will be all the power we'd need.

Nice find! Although I'm hopeless on technobabble so I struggle to relate this to a starship. You can see how a shipyard might use Subspace fields for heavy lifting. But that said, DS9 was doing so in space. Again, no clear indication about what creating Subspace fields on a populated planet might be. I would have thought that anything at the edge of the field would be ripped to shreds much like in the large hadron collider.

Plus warping space takes vast amounts of energy. Using vast amounts of energy to reduce the amount of energy it takes to put a ship in orbit still seems illogical.

I can imagine them building components to go inside the ships in planetside shipyards but not the super dense ship structure or warp engines .

 

[GNDN18]

Ask the folks on Ardana. They seem to be experts.

Piffle. You’re just building castles in the sky.

 

[Mytran]

Nice find! Although I'm hopeless on technobabble so I struggle to relate this to a starship. You can see how a shipyard might use Subspace fields for heavy lifting. But that said, DS9 was doing so in space. Again, no clear indication about what creating Subspace fields on a populated planet might be. I would have thought that anything at the edge of the field would be ripped to shreds much like in the large hadron collider.

Plus warping space takes vast amounts of energy. Using vast amounts of energy to reduce the amount of energy it takes to put a ship in orbit still seems illogical.

I can imagine them building components to go inside the ships in planetside shipyards but not the super dense ship structure or warp engines .

The thing is, there simply has to exist some sort of mass-reducing system in place for every starship, regardless of what form that system actually takes: The size of the engines and the small amount of fuel carried would simply be insufficient to accelerate such large objects up to an appreciable percentage of lightspeed in the times depicted.

 

[Pauln6]

The thing is, there simply has to exist some sort of mass-reducing system in place for every starship, regardless of what form that system actually takes: The size of the engines and the small amount of fuel carried would simply be insufficient to accelerate such large objects up to an appreciable percentage of lightspeed in the times depicted.

That's true. The science is plausible up to a point. If the Higgs field gives atoms their mass, presumably some way of passing through it with less 'friction' is the answer. Perhaps generation of a subspace field has that side effect. But how much energy would that take? It has to take less energy than not using the field to make it worthwhile.

Not much technobabble in TOS to help. Will have to keep an ear out for subspace field coils.

 

[Mytran]

TOS is incredibly light on the details - we have to take much of it on inference.

However, Star Trek as a whole is full of tech that must use energy "shortcuts" in order to be practical - warp drive is probably the best example of that in that it exceeds the speed of light without requiring infinite energy

 

[Marsden]

The thing is, there simply has to exist some sort of mass-reducing system in place for every starship, regardless of what form that system actually takes: The size of the engines and the small amount of fuel carried would simply be insufficient to accelerate such large objects up to an appreciable percentage of lightspeed in the times depicted.

Plus, I'm betting this has something to do with "inertial dampners" the thing that keeps everyone from being paste on the back of the bridge when they turn on the warp drive. Mass and inertia are directly related, so something that changes one affects the other, presumably.

I like that Star Trek doesn't explain too much, though, as in the original premise, one character wouldn't explain what a light switch does to another character then they shouldn't explain this technology to each other either.

 

[Shawnster]

The TOS era had specific instructions in the writer's bible to NOT explain away the technology. The comment was along the lines that "on Gunsmoke Sheriff Matt DIllon doesn't explain every detail about how his revolver works. He picks it up and shoots it. Likewise, our heroes are not going to waste time explaining how technology that is common and everyday to them works."

 

[Poltargyst]

Return of the Archons

There are a number of themes that run through TOS. One of them is this idea that it's wrong for humanity to find any sort of paradise if it means stagnation, lack of productivity and discovery. Humanity is meant to suffer and struggle in order to progress.

In a related topic, I've said before that I think (and I've had people argue with me) that Star Trek is atheist. Is this not an anti-religion episode? Everyone running around enjoying peace and tranquility but at the cost of their freedom and individuality? Try replacing "Landru" with "Jesus" in the dialog and I think the message becomes clear.

Quite some timing to beam down just as the The Purge...er...Festival is beginning.

I wonder how often Festival happens. I wonder how many people die during Festival. Might be hard to maintain population.

That old tattle-tale coot is really annoying. Actually, so is Lindstrom at times.

I wonder why they killed Tamar rather than reabsorb him. Is he immune to absorption like we are told Reger is?

I see that Sulu gets un-absorbed when Landru is defeated. Could he have been un-absorbed if Landru wasn't defeated?

Oh, just neck pinch absorbed McCoy already. And Lindstrom while you're at it.

I like how Kirk can always justify breaking the Prime Directive, usually if he deems a society is stagnating/not progressing properly.

Kirk is awfully confident this whole episode considering he has no idea what he's up against.

First example of Kirk Outsmarting the Computer.
1) Set the logic trap: get the computer to state its Prime Directive the transgressing of which must be punished with death.
2) Show the computer it has violated that directive.
3) Watch the computer destroy itself.

An okay episode. Not one I'm usually excited to see.

Alien Watch: A new planet of aliens!

Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)

*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!

 

[Shawnster]

I actually had a dream about this episode when I was much younger. Specifically the long hallway when they take Kirk and Spock to be absorbed into the Body. Something about the architecture. This time around I was reminded of the Yonada set with the lawgiver. Was it the same construction? Similar?

Is this the origin of the Borg? I never made the connection before, but, this is almost word for word what the Borg are all about. Unification. Assimilation/Absorption. Collective consciousness. The only difference being the purpose behind the assimilation. The Borg seem to just want to expand their collective by adding biological and technological distinctiveness. Landru instituted this as a means of controlling population and keeping everyone docile and at peace.

Yes, the idea of paradise and enjoying life without struggle is anathema to Star Trek. Landru brought about peace and tranquility at the expense of creativity. We'll see removal of peace and paradise again in "This Side of Paradise" with the spores being responsible for healing and health and happiness. Kirk defeats Val who brought peace and tranquility to his people too, along with rock like land mines.

Festival is a plot hole. What is it? What is the purpose? The reason why Landru allows this violation of the peace and tranquility of the body is never explained. Why is it specifically for the young? All the older ones are safe indoors. Hacom specifically states that the landing party are young men and they are not old enough to be excused from Festival. I used to think Festival was every night 6pm to 6am. That doesn't make sense, though. It wouldn't be a "festival" if it was daily. That much destruction would quickly destroy the civilization further than it already has been. Festival must just be once every so often 12 hours of The Purge.

I like Spock's headgear to hide his ears, but that quickly goes by the wayside. Further, nobody notices or cares that he's not human.

Where did these clothes come from? It's like the Enterprise crew knew in advance what clothing was in style and fabricated appropriate attire on the spot. Some sort of replicator technology that creates clothing? Similar to the food slots that make food on request?

Sulu assimilated by a hollow tube. Must be some kind of technology Spock is unfamiliar with. Spock makes a few assumptions and asserts them as fact in this episode. Telepathy! Yes, Spock, that's the only thing that makes sense. Can't be that they are all networked by nanoprobes or connected to the collective in some other fashion. Well, maybe that's telepathy of a sort. Borg telepathy. Spock assumes Landru built and programmed the computer 6,000 years ago. Lots of assumptions from our science officer.

Oh, loved his smirk when Spock leaves after his "assimilation." Priceless. Emotion from the emotionless Vulcan. Yes, he's supposed to be acting like he's absorbed, but that smirk is not a vacuous happy smile like Kirk pulled off. No, that's a "I can't believe I'm doing this" smirk.

Tamar looks familiar. Almost like an illusion we saw once before. He must have that kind of face.

Why is Sulu on this landing party? Helmsman, botanist, historian?, alien xenopologist? Do all the Enterprise crew draw rotations for landing parties regardless of their area of expertise? Then at the end of the episode he's back at duty. Oh, that Landru thing? That was just a hiccup. You're cleared for duty. No, we're not going to keep you under observation because you just went through an experience we've never encountered before. Get back to work you slacker!

What's up with the slow transport? Was the transporter tech, Kyle, is it? Was he asleep? We've seen much quicker emergency transports.

Is this the first appearance of the small hand-held phaser? I know they were designed to fit on top of the phaser 2 pistols. I've been trying to watch and see when these made an appearance. Did I miss them earlier?

Good thing the landing party beamed down at the capital instead of the valley. Kinda hard to destroy Landru from the valley.

Were the people of this planet humans? McCoy is ready to give the distressed Tula a shot to calm her down without even scanning her physiology.

KIRK: Are you suggesting the Lawgivers are mere computers, that they aren't human?
SPOCK: Quite human, Captain. It's simply that all the facts are not yet in. There are gaps.

SPOCK: There is no Landru, Captain, not in the human sense.

Captain's log, stardate 3158.7 The Enterprise is preparing to leave Beta Three in Star system C One Eleven. Sociologist Lindstrom is remaining behind with a party of experts who will help restore the planet's culture to a human form.

SPOCK: The late Landru, Captain. A marvellous feat of engineering. A computer capable of directing the lives of millions of human beings.

LINDSTROM [OC]: Couldn't be better. Already this morning, we've had half a dozen domestic quarrels and two genuine knock-down drag-outs. It may not be paradise, but it's certainly human.

So, is this an Earth colony?

I do like this idea of following up on missing/disappeared starships from 100 years ago. It's a big galaxy. It takes time to get back to all these location.

No change to the love meter this week.

Kirk Love Meter
Little Blonde Lab Technician
Jancie Rand
Evie
Andrea (forgot her last time)
Helen Noel
Miri (In the line of duty)
Lenore Karidian (In the line of duty)
Lieutenant Helen Johansson
Areel Shaw
Ruth
Enterprise computer Cygnet XIV upgrade. Kirk loves the Enterprise and the Enterprise loves Kirk!

McCoy Love Meter
Nancy Crater
Yeoman Tonia Barrows

 

[alchemist]

The below excerpts are from the first draft script dated Nov. 1, 1966. As an FYI, Luster in the first draft became Lindstrom in the shooting draft, Agnon became O'Neil, and Beta 3000 became Beta III.

Festival is a plot hole. What is it? What is the purpose? The reason why Landru allows this violation of the peace and tranquility of the body is never explained.

From Act I:

Btw, Saturnalia and Bacchanalia are deity-honoring festivals. Their Wiki entries reveal more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacchanalia

Where did these clothes come from? It's like the Enterprise crew knew in advance what clothing was in style and fabricated appropriate attire on the spot. Some sort of replicator technology that creates clothing? Similar to the food slots that make food on request?

Why is Sulu on this landing party? Helmsman, botanist, historian?, alien xenopologist? Do all the Enterprise crew draw rotations for landing parties regardless of their area of expertise? Then at the end of the episode he's back at duty. Oh, that Landru thing? That was just a hiccup. You're cleared for duty. No, we're not going to keep you under observation because you just went through an experience we've never encountered before. Get back to work you slacker!

Both of these questions are answered in other scenes in Act I:

 

[Pauln6]

I like the concept of Return of the Archons. Like Miri, I would have been very happy to see the story expanded and refined into a two-parter. The notion of a computer controlled society with a resistance is fun the first time round and the culture has a creepy atmosphere that I like.

The cast is a bit man heavy. Is this the first time since the Man Trap that a landing party featuring the supporting cast has omitted a woman? I miss Rand all over again, although Helen Noel would have fitted nicely into the plot. The resistance seems to made up of old men too.

I think it might be the novel Ape and Essence where humans develop seasonal mating habits involving mass orgies. Perhaps the festival is a way of spreading the gene pool, hence compulsory participation of the young?

I love Spock but if you are going to send him on infiltration missions, at least make him look like natives.