Production Order Group Viewing 2018
- Thread starter Archivist13
- Start date
Oh, you're right. They rearranged the walls themselves.
It looks like the altar and podium are covering up the normal entry to the curved corridor. A similar arrangement (probably the exact same set) of the TTW chapel room was used as the crew lounge in Day of the Dove complete with side yellow door and blue carpet.
It looks like the altar and podium are covering up the normal entry to the curved corridor. A similar arrangement (probably the exact same set) of the TTW chapel room was used as the crew lounge in Day of the Dove complete with side yellow door and blue carpet.
Super catch. I don't recall the Briefing Room being used in "For the World is Hollow", in which case they simply left the "The Tholian Web" Chapel wall arrangement in place and re-used the set for "Day of the Dove."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series_episodes#Production_order
OMG A DISCUSSION OF THE DOORS ON THE ENTERPRISE I LOVE THIS BOARD
1. I liked the Tholian on ENT but the Gorn was atrocious.
2. We just discussed this on another thread; I have always assumed that Spock was just being mordant (as he tends to do) in his observation, based on the "Be correct" admonition that Loskene gave him earlier. Also, someone in that thread said that Judith Stevens claimed that Nimoy ad-libbed that line. I've never heard that before, but if so I think it supports my premise. Nimoy was unlikely to be making up previous Starfleet-Tholian encounters in an ad lib.
3. Yeah, seriously. This ep is not McCoy's finest hour.
Fantastic observations. I never thought of the funeral angle.
Nooooooooooooooooooo. Scotty in Command is one of the very, very best things about Star Trek. I love the two scenes in this one where he and Sulu interact on the bridge.
Yeah, except he really doesn't; McCoy does, but Spock just sort of trails off with his words before he can actually utter a lie. Nimoy does an excellent acting job to pull it off. Incidentally this is one of the best Spock episodes ever.
As I said, awesome. And wow, nice skullcap on Hengist's stunt double!
1. I liked the Tholian on ENT but the Gorn was atrocious.
2. We just discussed this on another thread; I have always assumed that Spock was just being mordant (as he tends to do) in his observation, based on the "Be correct" admonition that Loskene gave him earlier. Also, someone in that thread said that Judith Stevens claimed that Nimoy ad-libbed that line. I've never heard that before, but if so I think it supports my premise. Nimoy was unlikely to be making up previous Starfleet-Tholian encounters in an ad lib.
3. Yeah, seriously. This ep is not McCoy's finest hour.
Spock on the other hand has really improved on his command style since The Galileo Seven, retaining his cool against argumentative subordinates, conducting a funeral (something he outright refused in G7), taking time to welcome back Uhura & Chekov, discussing his orders when required and following rational, even HUMAN protocol (such as choosing to stay behind and rescue Kirk).
Get back to work, McCoy!
Fantastic observations. I never thought of the funeral angle.
Nooooooooooooooooooo. Scotty in Command is one of the very, very best things about Star Trek. I love the two scenes in this one where he and Sulu interact on the bridge.
Finally, anyone who bought into the “Vulcans don’t lie” nonsense in Enterprise Incident should pay attention to the end of this episode: Spock straight up lies to Kirk’s face!
Yeah, except he really doesn't; McCoy does, but Spock just sort of trails off with his words before he can actually utter a lie. Nimoy does an excellent acting job to pull it off. Incidentally this is one of the best Spock episodes ever.
As I said, awesome. And wow, nice skullcap on Hengist's stunt double!
I admire your devotion, but Spock totally supports McCoy's lie, both agreeing with the assertion that they didn't listen to the orders and then by expounding on the false assertion that they didn't have time to listen to the tape
He spends most of Enterprise Incident lying anyway
FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY
(Best title ever!)
So, last week Kirk is lost in space and dead; this week McCoy has a terminal disease and will totally die within a year. It is Spock’s turn next week?
This is a very gently paced tale about confronting long held beliefs when faced with scientific truth, interwoven with McCoy dealing with a terminal disease. Lots of good character moments, which makes me somewhat forgive the various recycled tropes in the plot since they are not the main focus.
The idea of a generational ship is good traditional science fiction, but does limit the “threat” since any vessel travelling at sublight speeds would take years to get anywhere!
When they find the asteroid it is passing through a solar system. At sublight speed, how could the asteroid reach another star system in just 396 days? Or is it already in the Daran system? Was it heading to Daran-5 as its destination? If so, someone should inform the 3.7 billion inhabitants that they’re about to have guests!
McCoy, calm as ever in the face of impending death. Good performance all round from Deforest Kelley, especially the subtle performances in the moment when he is told that Spock knows. And the scenes between him and Natira are just lovely (which makes it even more confusing when they split up).
OTHER THOUGHTS:
THE RELATIONSHIP
McCoy is hit by the thunderbolt of love when he first sees Natira – he just stops in his tracks! It’s nice that she feels the same, but I think they both experience “buyer’s regret” very quickly after the initial impact; it’s really the only way to make sense of their final scene together. Remember, this takes place BEFORE Spock finds the cure to xenopolycythemia.
(Best title ever!)
So, last week Kirk is lost in space and dead; this week McCoy has a terminal disease and will totally die within a year. It is Spock’s turn next week?
This is a very gently paced tale about confronting long held beliefs when faced with scientific truth, interwoven with McCoy dealing with a terminal disease. Lots of good character moments, which makes me somewhat forgive the various recycled tropes in the plot since they are not the main focus.
The idea of a generational ship is good traditional science fiction, but does limit the “threat” since any vessel travelling at sublight speeds would take years to get anywhere!
When they find the asteroid it is passing through a solar system. At sublight speed, how could the asteroid reach another star system in just 396 days? Or is it already in the Daran system? Was it heading to Daran-5 as its destination? If so, someone should inform the 3.7 billion inhabitants that they’re about to have guests!
McCoy, calm as ever in the face of impending death. Good performance all round from Deforest Kelley, especially the subtle performances in the moment when he is told that Spock knows. And the scenes between him and Natira are just lovely (which makes it even more confusing when they split up).
OTHER THOUGHTS:
- Chapel ACTING again (she’s more of a regular than Uhura now)
- Despite a more sensible landing party in Spock’s Brain, this time we’re back to just Kirk, Spock and McCoy
- Another society controlled by a supercomputer? That doesn’t bode well now that Kirk is on the scene…
- Speaking of which, that old man who dies looks familiar – perhaps from another, computer controlled society episode?
- That oracle control room needs better security!
- The population of Yonada are not violent, do not seek to control the landing party, yet Kirk and Spock still snoop around and manage to get in trouble!
- Spock performing medical acts on McCoy again. Is there nothing beyond his skillset?
- When McCoy succumbs to the control chip, Kirk and Spock beam directly into the underground city. Couldn’t they have escaped the same way?
- Natira mentions that she can see the sun in the day and stars at night, suggesting that the populace are free to spend time on the surface of the “planet” – so why do they continue to live underground?
THE RELATIONSHIP
McCoy is hit by the thunderbolt of love when he first sees Natira – he just stops in his tracks! It’s nice that she feels the same, but I think they both experience “buyer’s regret” very quickly after the initial impact; it’s really the only way to make sense of their final scene together. Remember, this takes place BEFORE Spock finds the cure to xenopolycythemia.
- Even though McCoy was content to die on Yonada, he now wants to leave (to find a cure).
- He wants Natira to leave with him, she wants to stay (and guide her people)
- He offers to stay with her, she tells him to leave.
- A cure is then found.
- McCoy leaves anyway.
THE THOLIAN WEB
Another bottle show - and another really good one!
What hadn't really occurred to me until this rewatch is that the primary antagonist of this episode is not the Tholians (who are more of a ticking clock) but the very fabric of the universe itself, with all the associated weirdness and space phenomena that make exploration so cool. This was also an issue in The Empath where solar emissions presented a very real danger to the ship, the unstoppable asteroid from The Paradise Syndrome and even the spooky mind-realm the Enterprise wandered into in Is There In Truth No Beauty.
Season 3 is really taking the time to reinforce just how deadly the natural forces of the galaxy can be and while Starfleet's finest crew and most advanced technology might be good against the Klingons, they are woefully outmatched here. In fact, their very biology becomes a threat as the region of space begins to cause insanity.
Hey, is that a form of "space madness" that Spock mentioned back in Naked Time?
This is the other thing that really stood out to me from this episode - McCoy is at his throat A LOT and for very inconsistent reasons!
Spock on the other hand has really improved on his command style since The Galileo Seven, retaining his cool against argumentative subordinates, conducting a funeral (something he outright refused in G7), taking time to welcome back Uhura & Chekov, discussing his orders when required and following rational, even HUMAN protocol (such as choosing to stay behind and rescue Kirk).
Get back to work, McCoy!
OTHER THOUGHTS:
- Scenes on the Defiant are dark and creepy, emphasised by using unfamiliar camera angles
- Wow, there are a LOT of crewmembers on the Defiant. Just bodies EVERYWHERE!
- Remember when the Enterprise used to have loads of crew on board? Good times
- Scott has to leave the Bridge to help repair the transporter – a prime example of why the CHIEF ENGINEER should not dragged away from his primary duties to sit in the command chair. At least we get a brief stint of “Sulu in command” but that’s really what it should have been from the beginning
- Uhura gets lines AND something that advances the plot! It’s shame that no-one believed her story, but in fairness no-one believed Scotty either.
- Chapel also plays an active role and saves McCoy (even if she stands around panicking for rather too long IMO)
- When Chekov goes mad on the Bridge, he knocks over both his and Sulu’s chairs. I always assumed that they were anchored to the deck (at least in-universe) but I guess not! Makes all those time the ship shakes even more deadly to our intrepid crew...
- I think this is the longest time an episode has played with the “main character is dead” trope. I almost believed it!
NEW SETS
The chapel is not really new but it's only been seen in Season One's Balance Of Terror so I'm counting it
It's pretty much the same design too, right down to the rarely used side door of the Briefing Room set.
Finally, anyone who bought into the “Vulcans don’t lie” nonsense in Enterprise Incident should pay attention to the end of this episode: Spock straight up lies to Kirk’s face!
That is a true statement: The crisis was upon them and then passed quickly. But of course Spock lies plenty of other times.I admire your devotion, but Spock totally supports McCoy's lie, both agreeing with the assertion that they didn't listen to the orders and then by expounding on the false assertion that they didn't have time to listen to the tape
He spends most of Enterprise Incident lying anyway
I admire your devotion, but Spock totally supports McCoy's lie, both agreeing with the assertion that they didn't listen to the orders and then by expounding on the false assertion that they didn't have time to listen to the tape
He spends most of Enterprise Incident lying anyway
Yeah, no, I don't think he did lie there. It was very careful wordsmithing delivered through grest teleplay and acting.
And I dislike TEI.
For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched the Sky
(or as Jimi Hendrix put it "scuse me while I kiss the sky." He really could on Yonada.)
(Who knew Jimi was Fabrini?)
And the award for the longest title of a Star Trek episode is...FTWIHAIHTTS. Just thought it was fun to write its initials.
It's interesting that Yo Mama...er...Yonada only has technology for sublight speed itself, but has the capability of detecting and firing on ships going warp speeds. Is Natira aware they fired on the Enterprise or did the Oracle do that without telling her?
Xenowhosiwhatsis?
So the world is dying, and the Fabrini put their children on a ship to go to another planet where they'll be safe. How Supermanish.
I was surprised that in 10,000 years time that these people were on Yonada, that there apparently has been no changes. Doesn't anyone build any new shopping malls or apartment complexes? Or why don't the people overpopulate Yonada? But then we learn that only the Priestess may choose her mate. So the Oracle decides who everyone will marry and probably how many kids they will have so as not to overpopulate and not use up all their resources. That must be why they have such a tightly controlled society.
How do they get food? Surely they don't have 10,000 year old stores of food they are still drawing on. Do they do farming on the surface? Replicators?
I never noticed before, but early in this episode Natira rolls her r's.
One thing about focusing so much on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy this season is that they can really develop the relationships between them. Spock's concern for McCoy when he learns he has xenowhosiwhatsis is touching and reminiscent of The Empath where Spock similarly shows concern for McCoy.
Natira's offer to McCoy is sweet. Who could resist?
So even though Natira thinks she's on a planet, she's still expecting to go to another planet. How does she figure that's going to work exactly?
I feel like Kirk and Spock should have gone to the Oracle and just laid it out that they were all going to die if they didn't change course. Maybe the Oracle would have acted out of self preservation and helped them.
McCoy's loneliness. It's a theme throughout the series how lonely a starship officer's life can be.
And McCoy agrees to become of the body. Until he is no longer of the body.
Are all Starfleet Admirals jerks? And Yonada is only going sublight, right? So it's going to take 5 bazillion years for it to get to Daran V. Admiral, chill out, and take that stick out of your butt.
How does Spock just waltz in and know just how to turn off the heat? How do Kirk and Spock know just how to reset the ship's course? But then I always did think that Yonada's control room looked like any control room on the Enterprise. Maybe the ancient Fabrinis' technology isn't so different?
It's nice to think that McCoy and Natira do meet again. Oh, apparently they do in 390 days. But I mean after that, like from time to time throughout the rest of his life. And we don't see them divorce either. So they remain married the rest of their lives? This is an episode that could use a sequel.
"Their banks contain the total knowledge of the Fabrini..." I really do think it's fascinating that the culture's whole knowledge base, everything about them is captured in the computers. But then it makes me think of our internet. Everything about our cultures is online. Aliens could land, surf the web, and learn everything about us. It would be funny if we have the cure to some dread disease they need.
So Yonada is travelling at sublight, and is only 390 days from the destination of their 10,000 year journey. That is remarkable timing on the part of the Enterprise. So their destination is RIGHT FREAKING THERE, no doubt in sensor range of the Enterprise.
Natira is a strong character. Courageous and loyal.
But why wouldn't the Fabrini want their people to know they're on a ship?
I've always thought it wasn't really cool for McCoy to agree to stay with Natira on Yonada while he's dying but then up and leave as soon as there's a cure. I suppose they make a good case for why each of them would be motivated to carry on their new missions apart. It's interesting to think of Natira leading her people with compassion without the Oracle to harass them anymore.
Decent episode. McCoy's and Natira's relationship is sweet and the idea of an ancient race of people traveling to a new home is interesting indeed.
Alien Watch! Human looking but none of them look like Jimi.
Season 1
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
Organians*
Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
(The Guardian of Forever)
Flying pancakes
Season 2
Sylvia and Korob
The Companion
The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
Full-blooded Vulcans
The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
Redjac
The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
Crew of the ISS Enterprise
The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans
Tribbles (not at all human looking)
The remarkably human-looking citizens of...892-VI. Is that what they call this planet? (The Roman one.)
Tall guys, short guys, Andorians, Tellurites, purple lady, Orion made up like an Andorian. (JtB)
The remarkably human-looking people of Neural. (APLW)
The awesome Mugato!
Shahna, Lars, Tamoon, Kloog, Thrallmaster Galt, and the Providers
The Cloud from the Tycho system.
The BIG FREAKIN' AMEBA!!!!!
The remarkably human-looking Iotians. (Gangsters)
Kelvans! Who really look like big, cool squids but choose to look remarkably human.
Sargon and the gang of not-quite-omnipotent aliens.
Remarkably human looking Zeons of Zeon and Ekosians of Ekos. (PoF)
The remarkably human looking Yangs and Coms of Omega IV.
Isis! Who looks remarkably like a cat until she wants to look remarkably human.
Season 3
The decidedly non-human looking Melkotians.
The remarkably human-looking Elasians and not so human looking Troyians.
Lawyer in a muumuu. Remarkably human-looking but maybe that was on purpose.
The remarkably human-looking Morgs and Eymorgs of Sigma Draconis.
Kollos the Medusan
Gem the Empath (remarkably human looking)
Vians (the OTHER bumpy-headed aliens)
Tholians!
The remarkably human-looking Fabrini of Yo Mama.
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
**By request
(or as Jimi Hendrix put it "scuse me while I kiss the sky." He really could on Yonada.)
(Who knew Jimi was Fabrini?)
And the award for the longest title of a Star Trek episode is...FTWIHAIHTTS. Just thought it was fun to write its initials.
It's interesting that Yo Mama...er...Yonada only has technology for sublight speed itself, but has the capability of detecting and firing on ships going warp speeds. Is Natira aware they fired on the Enterprise or did the Oracle do that without telling her?
Xenowhosiwhatsis?
So the world is dying, and the Fabrini put their children on a ship to go to another planet where they'll be safe. How Supermanish.
I was surprised that in 10,000 years time that these people were on Yonada, that there apparently has been no changes. Doesn't anyone build any new shopping malls or apartment complexes? Or why don't the people overpopulate Yonada? But then we learn that only the Priestess may choose her mate. So the Oracle decides who everyone will marry and probably how many kids they will have so as not to overpopulate and not use up all their resources. That must be why they have such a tightly controlled society.
How do they get food? Surely they don't have 10,000 year old stores of food they are still drawing on. Do they do farming on the surface? Replicators?
I never noticed before, but early in this episode Natira rolls her r's.
One thing about focusing so much on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy this season is that they can really develop the relationships between them. Spock's concern for McCoy when he learns he has xenowhosiwhatsis is touching and reminiscent of The Empath where Spock similarly shows concern for McCoy.
Natira's offer to McCoy is sweet. Who could resist?
So even though Natira thinks she's on a planet, she's still expecting to go to another planet. How does she figure that's going to work exactly?
I feel like Kirk and Spock should have gone to the Oracle and just laid it out that they were all going to die if they didn't change course. Maybe the Oracle would have acted out of self preservation and helped them.
McCoy's loneliness. It's a theme throughout the series how lonely a starship officer's life can be.
And McCoy agrees to become of the body. Until he is no longer of the body.
Are all Starfleet Admirals jerks? And Yonada is only going sublight, right? So it's going to take 5 bazillion years for it to get to Daran V. Admiral, chill out, and take that stick out of your butt.
How does Spock just waltz in and know just how to turn off the heat? How do Kirk and Spock know just how to reset the ship's course? But then I always did think that Yonada's control room looked like any control room on the Enterprise. Maybe the ancient Fabrinis' technology isn't so different?
It's nice to think that McCoy and Natira do meet again. Oh, apparently they do in 390 days. But I mean after that, like from time to time throughout the rest of his life. And we don't see them divorce either. So they remain married the rest of their lives? This is an episode that could use a sequel.
"Their banks contain the total knowledge of the Fabrini..." I really do think it's fascinating that the culture's whole knowledge base, everything about them is captured in the computers. But then it makes me think of our internet. Everything about our cultures is online. Aliens could land, surf the web, and learn everything about us. It would be funny if we have the cure to some dread disease they need.
So Yonada is travelling at sublight, and is only 390 days from the destination of their 10,000 year journey. That is remarkable timing on the part of the Enterprise. So their destination is RIGHT FREAKING THERE, no doubt in sensor range of the Enterprise.
Natira is a strong character. Courageous and loyal.
But why wouldn't the Fabrini want their people to know they're on a ship?
I've always thought it wasn't really cool for McCoy to agree to stay with Natira on Yonada while he's dying but then up and leave as soon as there's a cure. I suppose they make a good case for why each of them would be motivated to carry on their new missions apart. It's interesting to think of Natira leading her people with compassion without the Oracle to harass them anymore.
Decent episode. McCoy's and Natira's relationship is sweet and the idea of an ancient race of people traveling to a new home is interesting indeed.
Alien Watch! Human looking but none of them look like Jimi.
Season 1
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
Organians*
Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
(The Guardian of Forever)
Flying pancakes
Season 2
Sylvia and Korob
The Companion
The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
Full-blooded Vulcans
The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
Redjac
The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
Crew of the ISS Enterprise
The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans
Tribbles (not at all human looking)
The remarkably human-looking citizens of...892-VI. Is that what they call this planet? (The Roman one.)
Tall guys, short guys, Andorians, Tellurites, purple lady, Orion made up like an Andorian. (JtB)
The remarkably human-looking people of Neural. (APLW)
The awesome Mugato!
Shahna, Lars, Tamoon, Kloog, Thrallmaster Galt, and the Providers
The Cloud from the Tycho system.
The BIG FREAKIN' AMEBA!!!!!
The remarkably human-looking Iotians. (Gangsters)
Kelvans! Who really look like big, cool squids but choose to look remarkably human.
Sargon and the gang of not-quite-omnipotent aliens.
Remarkably human looking Zeons of Zeon and Ekosians of Ekos. (PoF)
The remarkably human looking Yangs and Coms of Omega IV.
Isis! Who looks remarkably like a cat until she wants to look remarkably human.
Season 3
The decidedly non-human looking Melkotians.
The remarkably human-looking Elasians and not so human looking Troyians.
Lawyer in a muumuu. Remarkably human-looking but maybe that was on purpose.
The remarkably human-looking Morgs and Eymorgs of Sigma Draconis.
Kollos the Medusan
Gem the Empath (remarkably human looking)
Vians (the OTHER bumpy-headed aliens)
Tholians!
The remarkably human-looking Fabrini of Yo Mama.
*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
**By request
Last edited:
Damn bees! 
JB
JB
I still reckon that Spock straight up saying "no" (in response to Kirk's question) counts as a lie, but whateverYeah, no, I don't think he did lie there. It was very careful wordsmithing delivered through grest teleplay and acting.
And I dislike TEI.
What really confuses me is WHY he and McCoy felt the need to hide the fact they had seen the "last orders" tape. Did they not want to reveal to Kirk that they thought he was dead? It really wasn't unreasonable, given the circumstances! Have they already sworn everyone at the funeral service to secrecy?
Or did they just not want to stroke Kirk's ego by revealing that they found his advice useful?
Such an odd ending!
They didn't want to admit that he understood them and their relationship better than they did. It's kind of brilliant.
It was more nuanced, with a lighter touch, than the levity at the end of "The Galileo Seven."
Well that wouldn't be hard.
I can see that.
I still like the idea of them hushing up the funeral, the existence of which would cast serious doubt on the "the crisis was upon us and passed so quickly" line of BS...
Thereby uniting them around a shared sense of embarrassment, requiring each to preserve the other's pride in order to protect himself. You're not fooling anyone, least of all Jim.
I stand corrected.
Doing an advance watch of next week's episode (I never have time over the weekend!) I noticed that the second door does indeed make an appearance; when Kirk punches Kang, the Klingon stumbles back and it is in full view!
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