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Production Order Group Viewing 2018

Could people really survive on a planet right up until the minute their sun "goes nova"? Wouldn't the star become a red giant and incinerate the inner planets long before then?
Yes, people can survive right up to the nova event, and no, it does not become a swelling red giant. A supernova would result from a massive star (doesn't have to be a red giant) which collapses under its own gravity once its nuclear activity falls below a certain point, which explodes into a nebula of matter. We are certainly talking only about a standard nova, so, no, it does not become a red giant. Rather, it is a white dwarf collecting accretion gas from a companion star which doesn't have to be a red giant itself (making it smaller, actually). Once the gas accumulates to a certain point and density, it undergoes fusion itself which causes just the accumulated gas to explode continuously off the white dwarf for several days to weeks, generating a bright light in the process. This process may occur only once, but it can also repeat the process several times in a nova life-cycle. After a few days to weeks, the intense fusion event ends leaving the original white dwarf star and its companion star. The nova explosion blasts out and destroys the atmospheres and surfaces of all the planets in the star system. The planets survive, but they are cinders of their former selves.
All observed novae involve a white dwarf in a close binary system where the white dwarf is close enough to its companion star to start drawing accreted matter onto the surface of the white dwarf, which creates a dense but shallow atmosphere. This atmosphere is mostly hydrogen and is thermally heated by the hot white dwarf, which eventually reaches a critical temperature causing rapid runaway ignition by fusion. From the dramatic and sudden energies created, the now hydrogen-burnt atmosphere is then dramatically expelled into interstellar space, and its brightened envelope is seen as the visible light created from the nova event, and previously was mistaken as a "new" star.
 
Sure, it's better than nothing. With enough warning, several hundred colony ship runs may have occurred. In The Empath, Kirk says in the log that they knew for a long time about the nova situation. In All Our Yesterdays, he says in the log:
Time could be short, but usually "reports" are longer in the past. I bet they could relocate millions. And the latter planet was not country bun-kin's, they were well aware of their nova situation and developed TIME TRAVEL! as their escape plan. If they knew of advanced races with FLT and planets to colonize, they may have chosen that path, instead.

So, let's assume...
  • 6 billion people on planet
  • 6 months of rescue trips
  • 14 days round trip time to the drop-off planet
  • 15 ships
  • 1,000 refugees per ship per trip
That's a total of 195 round trips
Which could save just shy of 200,000 people, or the ~population of Columbus, Ohio
Saving ~1/31,000 of the people on the planet
 
So, let's assume...
  • 6 billion people on planet
  • 6 months of rescue trips
  • 14 days round trip time to the drop-off planet
  • 15 ships
  • 1,000 refugees per ship per trip
That's a total of 195 round trips
Which could save just shy of 200,000 people, or the ~population of Columbus, Ohio
Saving ~1/31,000 of the people on the planet
I'm not sure the system is that heavily populated, even allowing for the two inhabited planets:

SPOCK: What purpose can be served by the death of our friend, except to bring you pleasure? Surely beings as advanced as yourselves know that your star system will soon be extinct. Your sun will nova.
THANN: We know.
SPOCK: Then you also know that the millions of inhabitants on its planets are doomed.​
 
My post was more general about how many/few people the Federation could realistically save, not specific to any given episode.
 
My post was more general about how many/few people the Federation could realistically save, not specific to any given episode.
Fair enough; your stats are still quite illuminating about the numbers which could be saved
 
I'm assuming that the Federation found out too late to commit to a rescue (maybe the scientists were dropped off there and they didn't realise the supernova was imminent) or that these planets were too far out to save. Maybe the round trip would have been longer.
Still some attempt would have been better than nothing.
 
The Tholian Web

I always liked this one, but then I did always like the episodes with battles.

As they beam aboard the Defiant. "they're dead, Jim."

The Defiant has vanished! It's fun to know where it went thanks to ENT.

It's interesting that they know so much about parallel universes. They just take it for granted that they exist.

Those Tholians sure are testy. So's McCoy. And speaking of ENT, don't get me started on their crappy CGI Tholians. Or Gorns either for that matter.

"The renowned Tholian punctuality." So they know about the Tholians already.

McCoy's being a dick. Spock must be in command.

The Tholian web is a cool, unique concept, but it seems really impractical. The only reason it's a threat here is because the Enterprise can't move. Otherwise, how would the Tholians use it? In battle, do they target an opponent's engines, leaving them helpless in space and then build a web around them? To what end? Spock mentions a tractor field or something. Oh! I just thought of something for the first time. The Tholians trap ships in their webs and then tow them back to headquarters. I'm just not sure how they get the ships to keep still while they build the webs.

We get the same freaky camera effects when seeing from the point of view of a crazy person we got in ITITNB.

Why is McCoy grilling Spock about why he stayed to fight the Tholians? Obviously he was still trying to save Kirk. One would think McCoy would understand and appreciate that. He's really insubordinate this episode. I'm going to chalk it up to being in this unstable space because McCoy is really horrible this episode. On the one hand, he's blaming Spock for not just leaving the Captain and saving the ship at the outset. On the other, he's seems to be accusing Spock for taking Kirk's command. Well are you pissed at Spock for trying to save Kirk or are you pissed at him for taking Kirk's command?

Actually, staying to try to save Kirk is rather human of Spock. He ignores the logic of "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one" and risks the many to save the one.

Nice to see Chapel with something to do this episode, helping with the research. She even saved McCoy.

Hmmm, Uhura's quarters don't look the same as they did in EOT.

It's really not cool to keep Uhura in the same room with a screaming, murderously insane Chekov. There must be somewhere else they could have kept Uhura.

McCoy:" Do you suppose they're seeing Jim because they've lost confidence in you? " Dick.

I'm still amazed McCoy solved the Naked Time thing in 20 minutes. But here he cures the "molecular structure of the brain tissues in the central nervous system are distorting" thing in what? Less than two hours? Sometimes the timelines of these episodes seem a bit unrealistic.

Haha. Gotta love Scotty alcohol humor.

McCoy toasts Spock and calls him Captain. So McCoy accepts Spock in command now? Now he'll be respecful when Spock is in command?

Chekov:"The sheep has been thrown exactly two point seven two parsecs..." Haha. They're throwing sheep now?

McCoy:"Welcome home, Jim." Now aren't you glad Spock stayed?

Okay, what the hell happened there at the end? The Tholians finish their web. Out of the blue with no foundation or introduction they start talking about a tractor field. What the hell is that? So I'm guessing that the tractor field is the Tholians pulling the web with the Enterprise in it. But they just so happened to enclose the door to the alternate universe in with the Enterprise, so Spock has them fly into it thereby escaping the web by leaving our universe and going to the starless one. Then, somehow, miraculously, the Enterprise spontaneously reappears back in the correct universe and isn't out of phase or anything. And Kirk gets pulled along because they had a transporter lock on him. Does that sound right?

Decent episode and entertaining and the Tholians are a unique threat. I like it.

Alien Watch! Tholians!

Season 1
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
Organians*
Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
(The Guardian of Forever)
Flying pancakes

Season 2
Sylvia and Korob
The Companion
The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
Full-blooded Vulcans
The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
Redjac
The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
Crew of the ISS Enterprise
The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans
Tribbles (not at all human looking)
The remarkably human-looking citizens of...892-VI. Is that what they call this planet? (The Roman one.)
Tall guys, short guys, Andorians, Tellurites, purple lady, Orion made up like an Andorian. (JtB)
The remarkably human-looking people of Neural. (APLW)
The awesome Mugato!
Shahna, Lars, Tamoon, Kloog, Thrallmaster Galt, and the Providers
The Cloud from the Tycho system.
The BIG FREAKIN' AMEBA!!!!!
The remarkably human-looking Iotians. (Gangsters)
Kelvans! Who really look like big, cool squids but choose to look remarkably human.
Sargon and the gang of not-quite-omnipotent aliens.
Remarkably human looking Zeons of Zeon and Ekosians of Ekos. (PoF)
The remarkably human looking Yangs and Coms of Omega IV.
Isis! Who looks remarkably like a cat until she wants to look remarkably human.

Season 3
The decidedly non-human looking Melkotians.
The remarkably human-looking Elasians and not so human looking Troyians.
Lawyer in a muumuu. Remarkably human-looking but maybe that was on purpose.
The remarkably human-looking Morgs and Eymorgs of Sigma Draconis.
Kollos the Medusan
Gem the Empath (remarkably human looking)
Vians (the OTHER bumpy-headed aliens)
Tholians!

*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
**By request
 
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The Tholian web is a cool, unique concept, but it seems really impractical. The only reason it's a threat here is because the Enterprise can't move. Otherwise, how would the Tholians use it? In battle, do they target an opponent's engines, leaving them helpless in space and then build a web around them? To what end? Spock mentions a tractor field or something. Oh! I just thought of something for the first time. The Tholians trap ships in their webs and then tow them back to headquarters. I'm just not sure how they get the ships to keep still while they build the webs.
I see the Tholians first disabling the enemy ships. The one little ship was seriously hurting the Enterprise, even through its incredible shields:
(The ship shakes to the impact of the blasts of energy.)
SPOCK: The renowned Tholian punctuality.
UHURA: Mister Spock, damage control report. Minor structural damage to sections A4 and C13.
SPOCK: Engineering, hold power steady and cut off all unnecessary expenditures. Mister Sulu, divert all but emergency maintenance power to the shields.
SULU: But sir, that'll reduce our phaser power by fifty percent.
UHURA: Mister Spock!
(Another bolt of energy is heading towards them.)
SCOTT: Scott to Bridge!
SPOCK: Spock here.
SCOTT [OC]: I know you don't like to use the phasers, but you've got to do something about that ship out there.
(McCoy enters.)
SPOCK: Understood. Lieutenant Uhura, open a channel to the Tholian ship. Mister Sulu, lock in phaser tracking controls.
SULU: Phasers locked in, sir.
UHURA: There's no response on any frequency, sir.
MCCOY: What's the use of this battle, Spock? You've lost Jim. Take this ship out of here.
SPOCK: Ready, Mister Sulu?
SULU: Ready, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: Fire.
SULU: A hit, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: Engineering, status report. Mister Scott?
SCOTT [OC]: Spock, that hit from the Tholians has fused our power supply converters.
SCOTT: I can't do a thing with the Enterprise now.
SCOTT [OC]: She's bound to drift, maybe right through that doorway out there.
SPOCK: Can you estimate minimum time required for repair?
SCOTT: I don't even know if she can be repaired.
Scott is reporting that the ship's power supply converters are out, so no power is getting to the engines. She is immobilized. One or two more hits and the Enterprise may have been destroyed. Next, the Tholians spin a ginormous energy web around the ship staying outside weapon range. Using the spider analogy, they spin a web around its food to be eaten, later. Since Scott called the web a tractor field, I envision the Tholians "pull" the web tight once complete, and tow them back to their home base.
SULU: It's the Captain. Sir, the tractor field is activating.
CHEKOV: We're being pulled out of here.
SPOCK: Try to maintain position Mister Sulu.
SULU: I can't, sir.
Spock says they will never see home again, so, maybe he heard rumors that the Tholians eat their enemies. :barf2:
 
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The Tholian Web is one of my favourite season three episodes. It has some hallmarks of earlier episodes such the Naked Time but it has so much more going on.

The Tholians are truly alien, the weird stuff going on with the ghost ship is great, and without Kirk in the lead, the other characters get so much more to do.

I agree that McCoy's behaviour is a bit harsh but I put that down to him being affected by interspace. A comment from Spock could have brought this up and McCoy could have shot back that, of course anybody who disagrees with the infallible Mr Spock must be losing his mind.

I would not have minded if they had used the Tholian CGI from Enterprise in place of the dodgy original. I didn't like way they did the Gorn, which should have been strong but sluggish, but the Tholian looked pretty cool.
 
THE THOLIAN WEB

Another bottle show - and another really good one!

What hadn't really occurred to me until this rewatch is that the primary antagonist of this episode is not the Tholians (who are more of a ticking clock) but the very fabric of the universe itself, with all the associated weirdness and space phenomena that make exploration so cool. This was also an issue in The Empath where solar emissions presented a very real danger to the ship, the unstoppable asteroid from The Paradise Syndrome and even the spooky mind-realm the Enterprise wandered into in Is There In Truth No Beauty.

Season 3 is really taking the time to reinforce just how deadly the natural forces of the galaxy can be and while Starfleet's finest crew and most advanced technology might be good against the Klingons, they are woefully outmatched here. In fact, their very biology becomes a threat as the region of space begins to cause insanity.
Hey, is that a form of "space madness" that Spock mentioned back in Naked Time?

McCoy's being a dick. Spock must be in command.

Why is McCoy grilling Spock about why he stayed to fight the Tholians? Obviously he was still trying to save Kirk. One would think McCoy would understand and appreciate that. He's really insubordinate this episode. I'm going to chalk it up to being in this unstable space because McCoy is really horrible this episode. On the one hand, he's blaming Spock for not just leaving the Captain and saving the ship at the outset. On the other, he's seems to be accusing Spock for taking Kirk's command. Well are you pissed at Spock for trying to save Kirk or are you pissed at him for taking Kirk's command?

Actually, staying to try to save Kirk is rather human of Spock. He ignores the logic of "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one" and risks the many to save the one.
This is the other thing that really stood out to me from this episode - McCoy is at his throat A LOT and for very inconsistent reasons!

Spock on the other hand has really improved on his command style since The Galileo Seven, retaining his cool against argumentative subordinates, conducting a funeral (something he outright refused in G7), taking time to welcome back Uhura & Chekov, discussing his orders when required and following rational, even HUMAN protocol (such as choosing to stay behind and rescue Kirk).
Get back to work, McCoy! :devil:

OTHER THOUGHTS:
  • Scenes on the Defiant are dark and creepy, emphasised by using unfamiliar camera angles
  • Wow, there are a LOT of crewmembers on the Defiant. Just bodies EVERYWHERE!
  • Remember when the Enterprise used to have loads of crew on board? Good times
  • Scott has to leave the Bridge to help repair the transporter – a prime example of why the CHIEF ENGINEER should not dragged away from his primary duties to sit in the command chair. At least we get a brief stint of “Sulu in command” but that’s really what it should have been from the beginning
  • Uhura gets lines AND something that advances the plot! It’s shame that no-one believed her story, but in fairness no-one believed Scotty either.
  • Chapel also plays an active role and saves McCoy (even if she stands around panicking for rather too long IMO)
  • When Chekov goes mad on the Bridge, he knocks over both his and Sulu’s chairs. I always assumed that they were anchored to the deck (at least in-universe) but I guess not! Makes all those time the ship shakes even more deadly to our intrepid crew...
  • I think this is the longest time an episode has played with the “main character is dead” trope. I almost believed it!

NEW SETS
The chapel is not really new but it's only been seen in Season One's Balance Of Terror so I'm counting it ;)
It's pretty much the same design too, right down to the rarely used side door of the Briefing Room set.

Finally, anyone who bought into the “Vulcans don’t lie” nonsense in Enterprise Incident should pay attention to the end of this episode: Spock straight up lies to Kirk’s face! :guffaw:
 
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The chapel is not really new but it's only been seen in Season One's Balance Of Terror so I'm counting it ;)
It's pretty much the same design too, right down to the rarely used side door of the Briefing Room set.
There were thirty people in the room, so, poop on the lack of crew in season 3. :cool:
 
There were thirty people in the room, so, poop on the lack of crew in season 3. :cool:
Fair point but this episode really is one of the exceptions. Also, they had already paid for all those extras to pose as corpses in those scenes on the USS Defiant, so it makes sense to keep them around the funeral.
When it came to filming the standard Enterprise scenes though, there were just the usual 4 engineers in Engineering. Compare that to EIGHT seen on the Defiant's Engine Room, plus 2 more in the Emergency Manual Monitor room! As I said, a well crewed ship by any measure :techman:
It's interesting that they know so much about parallel universes. They just take it for granted that they exist.
They've encountered other universes at least twice in recent years (Alternative Factor, Mirror Mirror) so I imagine that Federation scientists have been working on the theory in the meantime.
Hmmm, Uhura's quarters don't look the same as they did in EOT.
You didn't think Uhura was going to leave her antique furniture in there for Elaan to mess up, did you? Or maybe she did, and this is all new stuff after the Dohlman destroyed it! :guffaw:
 
The chapel is not really new but it's only been seen in Season One's Balance Of Terror so I'm counting it ;)
It's pretty much the same design too, right down to the rarely used side door of the Briefing Room set.

It's the same doorway they always use in the Briefing Room, but the sliding panels have been changed to yellow, apparently to reinforce the feeling that it's a different room.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd0900.jpg
 
It's the same doorway they always use in the Briefing Room, but the sliding panels have been changed to yellow, apparently to reinforce the feeling that it's a different room.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd0900.jpg
It's really not the same doorway!

Side door for chapel (note position relative to support struts):
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd023.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd0845.jpg

Regular door for Briefing Room (opposite wall struts, note position on ceiling):
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x11/themanagerie1_790.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x14hd/wolfinthefoldhd1274.jpg
 
It's really not the same doorway!

Side door for chapel (note position relative to support struts):
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x14hd/balanceofterrorhd023.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x09hd/thetholianwebhd0845.jpg

Regular door for Briefing Room (opposite wall struts, note position on ceiling):
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x11/themanagerie1_790.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x14hd/wolfinthefoldhd1274.jpg
By George, you’re right! and…
1CEF571B-52E8-48A4-A057-23390497D7A2.gif
…this is confusing.
 
Blue doors open to and from the main corridors. Yellow open to and from the secondary/connector corridors. Red are exit doors (turbolift, stairs, ladders, gangways, etc.). Gray are closets. The door color logic is much like the door labeling scheme...:shrug:
 
Grey is also the colour of the doors to the cabin set.
The doors to the Engine Room are red, except in Season One when they are yellow.
Red is sometimes the colour of auxiliary rooms (such as Ambassador Kolos' quarters in ITITNB)
The medical lab and Doctor's office have yellow doors, but the main Sickbay doors are greenish
In Naked Time there is at least one set of turbolift doors that are blue

And you thought it was simple! :guffaw:
 
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