Poll: Bring Janeway back?

[Lynx]

I wish people could relax and have fun with this stuff. There's enough anger and fighting in the world as it is.

You're absolutely right about that.

But it's difficult to have fun when the things which makes life fun is constantly screwed up and ruined. Trek used to be fun once, after the destruction of beloved characters like Kes, Kirk, Data and Janeway there isn't that much fun about it anymore.

joyofvgr wrote:


I totally agree with what you have written here.

As for the statement from your friend that "if your fandom is only about one character than you aren't really a "true" fan of the show, or Trek", I have to disagree. A person might be a true fan of something, Star trek Voyager, a rock band or whatsoever. But then something hapens which changes the chemistry of the whole thing, an important member of the object for the fandom is removed, leaves, killed off or kicked out or there is a change of style which might be totally different from what it was before. Then it can be hard to remain a fan. I know people who have been true fans of certain rock bands and then have abandoned them because one important member of the band left or was fired or because the band changed its musical direction. I guess it's the same for Star Trek.

See this would have been a nice place to stop your post it gets the fact that your saying Trek dosen't work for you anymore with Janeway dead in a way that dosen't insult people or come off as beating us over the head with your opinion.

Thrawn wrote:

2) TPTB have explicitly stated that nothing they read on a messageboard will influence anyone's creative decisions. So you may be letting them know how you feel, but it won't accomplish anything. Write Pocket a letter if you want your voice to be heard.

Now that's one thing I sometimes find annoying. No compassion for the fans, not a single attempt to listen to the dissapointed fans or maybe change the decision in some way, just an attitude of "This is our show, we do what we want and if you don't like it, sod off!"

And no, I haven't forgotten how the "TPTB" of the TV series reacted to the fans who staged a campaignto have Kes re-instated as a main character.

This on the other hand is NOT helpful to what you are trying to do you don't get people to do something you want them to do by insulting them, DOING THAT. DOSEN'T. WORK. (I'm not yelling just emphasizing). This is not ment as an insult just a suggestion on how you can improve on presenting your case.

Well, I guess you're right here. It's not my intention to insult anyone and you're definitely right when you state that it won't help. But I guess that some events in the past have created a certain distrust in my case, a distrust which makes me a bit mean from time to time.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

And no, I haven't forgotten how the "TPTB" of the TV series reacted to the fans who staged a campaignto have Kes re-instated as a main character.

This one I don't understand. Kes had a seven-year lifespan. She would have been dead by the time Voyager reached Earth anyway. And artificially extending her life wouldn't have been true to the character.

 

[Thrawn]

Those certain events in the past were done by a completely different set of people.

 

[joyofvgr]

Thrawn wrote:
I have to inform you that most of the fans who are complaining now haven't been aware of the fact that Janeway will remain dead in upcoming books until recently.

As for the difference in getting over the death of a real person and a fictional character, when a real person dies, it's so definitive, you just have to live with it and some people never get over thedeath of a beloved one.

But when it comes to the death of a fictional character, it could have been prevented and in some cases it can be changed too. Therefore people are complaining the way they are doing.

Besides that, some of them who might be angry over the death of a fictional character might even have had that fiction as a place and pastime to get away from real losses in real life as well.

I agree. I was going to address this issue next, by Lynx beat me to it.

Fine, fair enough, but the way you're going about it is not going to fix it, and even if by some bizarre chance it HAS, you won't know about it for months and months. So that means all you're doing is venting. Over and over.

And you're responding to me over and over, so you must like it.

Just kidding.

 

[Lynx]

And no, I haven't forgotten how the "TPTB" of the TV series reacted to the fans who staged a campaignto have Kes re-instated as a main character.

This one I don't understand. Kes had a seven-year lifespan. She would have been dead by the time Voyager reached Earth anyway. And artificially extending her life wouldn't have been true to the character.

There were possibilities to prolong her lifespan and they should have been used, especially since the nine-year lifespan was a silly mistake from the beginning. A species with such a short lifespan wouldn't be able to develope into anything more than primates.

Not to mention the "one-child syndrome"

And I don't think that a prolonging of her lifespan would have ruined the character in any way. On the contrary, it would have made the character even better.

As a matter of fact, no one complained when Spock was brought back to life in a somewhat unrealistic way and it also looks like the development of certain technologies when it comes to prolonging lifespans have made Spock, Scotty and McCoy to live very long and prosper. Those guys were actually alive in the TNG era.

 

[Thrawn]

Honestly, joyofvgr, I swear to whatever you'd like me to swear to, it just bugs me when people do things that are consistently motivated by faulty assumptions. I love conversations about this, I even enjoyed my first exchange with Lynx, I'd just like us to all be proceeding from the same baseline of reality.

If you're posting here because you want to find out why this was done, etc, then great. But you won't change it. So that kills any good conversation, if you think so, because we're not talking about the same thing.

 

[Lynx]

Those certain events in the past were done by a completely different set of people.

You're absolutely right about that and I have never stated anything else either.

But this Janeway thing may have summoned some ghosts from the past when it comes to me.

 

[Thrawn]

You haven't answered my question, Lynx.

Do you plan to spend the next at least 9 months staying here and bitching about the same thing over and over again, despite knowing that it won't do any good?

And while we're at it, have you written a letter to Pocket about this, or are you just ignoring the advice of the people that work there on purpose?

 

[Lynx]

You haven't answered my question, Lynx.

Do you plan to spend the next at least 9 months staying here and bitching about the same thing over and over again, despite knowing that it won't do any good?

And while we're at it, have you written a letter to Pocket about this, or are you just ignoring the advice of the people that work there on purpose?

I was going to reply to that comment but you erased it from your previous post.

I guess that there will be people "bitching" about this for the next 9 months or so, I don't know if I will be one of them right now. It all depends on what will happen, how this debate will continue and how interested I will be in it.

As for your second question, I haven't written any letter to Pocket yet but I will. And no, I'm not ignoring their advices on purpose because it would be stupid to do so.

 

[joyofvgr]

Honestly, joyofvgr, I swear to whatever you'd like me to swear to, it just bugs me when people do things that are consistently motivated by faulty assumptions. I love conversations about this, I even enjoyed my first exchange with Lynx, I'd just like us to all be proceeding from the same baseline of reality.

If you're posting here because you want to find out why this was done, etc, then great. But you won't change it. So that kills any good conversation, if you think so, because we're not talking about the same thing.

No. I am posting here because I have found a new set of Trek fans that I haven't interacted with before, so it's new and different.

I am also following the release of Full Circle and I'm anxious to hear what others have to say about it.

My opinions about the death of Janeway, are simply that. My opinions. These are the threads where that is being discussed, so these are the threads where I am posting them.

Now whether expressing my opinions will actually change anything? Like you said, 'no one will ever know for at least a few months if not longer,' but that is not my only purpose for posting here.

However, I find it telling that people get shocked about the fact that Janeway has been leading in polls for favorite Captain lately. It shows that this board must have been without Janeway fans for quite a while, or perhaps they just stayed silent. Again, I'm not trying to "fix" anything with that statement. It's just an observation.

 

[Thrawn]

Man, Lynx; we must be a seriously awesome bunch, if you'd rather pointlessly argue with us for two months than do the one thing that might actually help your case.

Whatever. I'm just going to put you on ignore, at this point, I think. Good luck on your quest.

 

[Lynx]

Man, Lynx; we must be a seriously awesome bunch, if you'd rather pointlessly argue with us for two months than do the one thing that might actually help your case.

Whatever. I'm just going to put you on ignore, at this point, I think. Good luck on your quest.

It will be sad if you do that. Despite our different opinions, I do enjoy our exchange of views.

I can agree with your comment about me not having written any letter yet. My mistake.

 

[Thrawn]

Honestly, joyofvgr, I swear to whatever you'd like me to swear to, it just bugs me when people do things that are consistently motivated by faulty assumptions. I love conversations about this, I even enjoyed my first exchange with Lynx, I'd just like us to all be proceeding from the same baseline of reality.

If you're posting here because you want to find out why this was done, etc, then great. But you won't change it. So that kills any good conversation, if you think so, because we're not talking about the same thing.

No. I am posting here because I have found a new set of Trek fans that I haven't interacted with before, so it's new and different.

I am also following the release of Full Circle and I'm anxious to hear what others have to say about it.

My opinions about the death of Janeway, are simply that. My opinions. These are the threads where that is being discussed, so these are the threads where I am posting them.

Now whether expressing my opinions will actually change anything? Like you said, 'no one will ever know for at least a few months if not longer,' but that is not my only purpose for posting here.

However, I find it telling that people get shocked about the fact that Janeway has been leading in polls for favorite Captain lately. It shows that this board must have been without Janeway fans for quite a while, or perhaps they just stayed silent. Again, I'm not trying to "fix" anything with that statement. It's just an observation.

That all makes sense; I might have misinterpreted you, it sounds like you're a bit closer to me on this than I thought (interested in alternate points of view just for the sake of them).

I do take issue with your last statement, though; I'd suspect most people are surprised because Voyager was the 4th least-watched Star Trek series, and was mostly about Janeway. Statistically speaking, there must be an enormous overabundance of Janeway fans that participate in this messageboard. And on the flipside, I don't think anyone is surprised she's a likable character. I'm a huge fan myself.

 

[joyofvgr]

I do take issue with your last statement, though; I'd suspect most people are surprised because Voyager was the 4th least-watched Star Trek series, and was mostly about Janeway. Statistically speaking, there must be an enormous overabundance of Janeway fans that participate in this messageboard. And on the flipside, I don't think anyone is surprised she's a likable character. I'm a huge fan myself.

Well in the interest of not creating anymore of "these threads" I won't create a new poll regarding favorite series, but that may have changed around here as well lately.

Ratings wise, Voyager was the 4th least watched Star Trek series, but keep in mind that TOS didn't do so great in it's first run either and was cancelled after only four years, I believe. I actually became a fan of each of the trek series when they were shown in syndication. The fist being TOS, then TNG and later Voyager. The latter two I never really watched until they were on SPIKE TV. So I'm not sure you can really point to statistics in this case, especially with the recent influx of Janeway/Voyager fans.

 

[brcarthey]

how about we just hit a big fat reset button.

since some think janeway violated some big fat temporal prime directive during "endgame." someone should just write a story where captain braxton (yeah i know he's in jail) or whoever and stop the older admiral janeway from carrying out her mission. this way everyone will be alive again and back in the DQ. it's win-win (until seven dies and tuvok goes mad, then we'll with that), janeway lives to a ripe old age, we get more DQ adventures and some BQ ones as well, and all will be right with the world (except for kes fans b/c she'll be dead at this point).

 

[brcarthey]

I do take issue with your last statement, though; I'd suspect most people are surprised because Voyager was the 4th least-watched Star Trek series, and was mostly about Janeway. Statistically speaking, there must be an enormous overabundance of Janeway fans that participate in this messageboard. And on the flipside, I don't think anyone is surprised she's a likable character. I'm a huge fan myself.

4th least?? not wanting to start an argument, but that's not what i've seen.

EDIT: and i don't think you can always base polls on fan level, based on the message boards i'd always thought that nuBSG had huge rating numbers. i found that 90% of the time it's been way less than even ENT

 

[joyofvgr]

I do take issue with your last statement, though; I'd suspect most people are surprised because Voyager was the 4th least-watched Star Trek series, and was mostly about Janeway. Statistically speaking, there must be an enormous overabundance of Janeway fans that participate in this messageboard. And on the flipside, I don't think anyone is surprised she's a likable character. I'm a huge fan myself.

4th least?? not wanting to start an argument, but that's not what i've seen.

EDIT: and i don't think you can always base polls on fan level, based on the message boards i'd always thought that nuBSG had huge rating numbers. i found that 90% of the time it's been way less than even ENT

Exactly.

 

[LightningStorm]

...Voyager was the 4th least-watched Star Trek series...

Of 5 shows (not counting TAS) "4th least watched" would make it the "2nd most watched." I'm guessing you meant something like "2nd least" only after Enterprise?

Even given that though, I'd question the accuracy of such a measurement given all of the varying factors that would go into such a comparison to be fair.

 

[Trent Roman]

to all the people who keep criticizing janeway fans who are venting about her death, just leave them alone. it's human nature, maybe not the most productive or rational all the time (...) but this mob mentality of piling on people who are rightly or wrongly genuinely upset seems pretty callous and hypocritical from fans of a sci-fi series that sought to understand and empathize with other's frailties.

We should also keep in mind that this is all this anger is an intentional effect. Barring hopeless naiveté, editorial has to have know that offing Janeway (and in fashion that has appeared derogatory, independently to a number of people, although it's possible they somehow failed to ever spot the impression the text could give) would anger people. Angry people express their anger. All of this has to have been foreseen, and folks telling those upset with the decision to sit down and shut up ignore the fact that these long-running arguments are actually one of the benefits of the decision to kill Janeway. Controversy sells books, and these threads ensure that Janeway, Voyager and the upcoming publications remain in the public eye amongst those who care enough to discuss such things.

I understand being upset. But it's been a year and a half. It's never taken me that long to get over the death of a REAL person.

The deaths of real people are not reversible, nor, barring murder one, are they generally planned in such a fashion. That makes people talk about the reasons why it was decided and the possibility of it being fixed.

Do you plan to spend the next at least 9 months staying here and bitching about the same thing over and over again, despite knowing that it won't do any good?

Why not? I can't speak for Lynx, I'm here most every day anyway, and it's not as if, honestly, there's any greater or lesser worth in posting in these discussions than any other on a Trek discussion board. If actually having an impact on creative decisions was the criterion for holding a conversation here, the forum would be empty. Besides which, I've been at this every time the topic has come up since I read Before Dishonor for the first time, which is far more than nine months ago; and there has been improvement in that time, at least in the community.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Gorf]

And while we're at it, have you written a letter to Pocket about this, or are you just ignoring the advice of the people that work there on purpose?

I have - 4 letters in fact and from Europe no less. Now, does that entitle me to bitch forever?